Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

[ratdude747]

If replacing pistons, the pistons used in 1996 [maybe 1995, too?] were said to be improved. They are hyperutectic and equipped with metric rings, with less friction.

Like these [unfortunately, these are +.030"]:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/x6-New-OEM-Engine-Piston-pin-030-F6TZ-6108-CBA-For-1996-Ford-4-9L-300-I6/333314908958?epid=1237572785&hash=item4d9b1de31e:g:k1AAAOSwJQxdbDIE

A compatible version is on rockauto, and such is what I was referring to.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=212553&cc=1121432&jsn=2197&_nck=ZExt1ysfqhqWnq%2BEvUNdS3Txyey60IDtnjPWF5UU9J0BWQv7pvqZbkEUk86%2BAYIh3BPX4eQfsOhcKXuhPerB6okKuG1n1Ze5gTyciC89iy%2FDl8Szoj5Owt0Ql4pJzW6k%2FXPzDC2dxsoCYfsGOSp11AOn6j%2Fv5%2BOivR4nmFJjPDriuO8vhlH%2B57tPF%2BzbD0szhTyf8erETGE1oQ%2FGI90mGvVxUfgSNS7HqzATldcVwFdaKKy%2BUs9AHNMwq0ifxzY7XvN4ZLtDCrzkoQwVa6TfYsbkuYSyISU5j80Sg%2FhYGQFyUat42GySWU84G276rTvEmowxfV0TtPDF6MKL4mdqxkiyb%2F%2BfpIwK

[Frank Wyatt]

A compatible version is on rockauto, and such is what I was referring to.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=212553&cc=1121432&jsn=2197&_nck=ZExt1ysfqhqWnq%2BEvUNdS3Txyey60IDtnjPWF5UU9J0BWQv7pvqZbkEUk86%2BAYIh3BPX4eQfsOhcKXuhPerB6okKuG1n1Ze5gTyciC89iy%2FDl8Szoj5Owt0Ql4pJzW6k%2FXPzDC2dxsoCYfsGOSp11AOn6j%2Fv5%2BOivR4nmFJjPDriuO8vhlH%2B57tPF%2BzbD0szhTyf8erETGE1oQ%2FGI90mGvVxUfgSNS7HqzATldcVwFdaKKy%2BUs9AHNMwq0ifxzY7XvN4ZLtDCrzkoQwVa6TfYsbkuYSyISU5j80Sg%2FhYGQFyUat42GySWU84G276rTvEmowxfV0TtPDF6MKL4mdqxkiyb%2F%2BfpIwK

Sealed Power is a good brand. Pay attention to the compression distance as Ford would change the compression distance to control the compression ratio depending on the application, car, light duty truck, or medium duty truck as an example.

[ratdude747]

Time has passed, no oil additives helped at all, and now that I have a running 1995 Ranger, an engine hoist and stand, and 2 weeks with mostly no work (besides ~3 days of work@home horse puckey), I've torn into her to get to the bottom of this and fix her up. She's taken me all over Indiana, all the way out to KS and back, and on the several hour journey to pick up the engine hoist and stand from OH and KY (respectively) right before OH was locked down (and for $175 combined too ).

I have a lot of pictures, mainly for reference for when the time to re-assemble comes. But there are several I have for you. Made some good surprises, and one bad surprise.

As my former boss would say, bad news first, so here's the bad news. My flex plate is chowdered... looks like several starter engagements while running. Still usable, but rough. Probably will replace it (or replace the ring gear if it's significantly cheaper, just like a flywheel, right?). Also had some bad luck with electrical connectors, but that's in another thread. Determined that the engine mounts, lower rad hose, and (probably) the water pump need swapped as a well. Has the original radiator, which was working, but the drain is plugged with rust. Not sure if I should clean it up or replace it- it has soldered brass tanks, not modern plastic tanks.

Tear down:

Top end didn't look bad:

As far as I can tell, all of the valvetrain is getting good oil (besides Exhaust #2, but I think it sloshed out, the pushrod was clean as a whistle). Some caked oil inside (light dark brown/black coating), but virtually no internal sludge. Looks like she saw regular oil changes. Valve cover, lifter cover, and manifold fasteners were very loose though (the former two are likely due to the cork gaskets shrinking and failing)

The cylinders do still have the factory honing present, but the pistons are covered in flaky carbon:

Cylinder 1 (the black sooty nasty cylinder):

Cylinder 2: (2-5 were showing normal ash colors):

Cylinder 3:

Cylinder 4:

Cylinder 5:

Cylinder 6:

(NOTE: Any water seen was seepage through loose spark plugs when I washed the engine down after removal from the truck.

Other than that one line (which is a mark, not a groove, it's not cut into the cylinder), I still see factory honing. Maybe all the block needs is a re-hone (plus new rings and possibly pistons?)? Such is a huge releif... but where all the oil is coming from has yet to be determined.

That line makes me think that rings are indeed stuck... but it's just a discoloration, my nail didn't catch on it.

Confirming the suspicion that cylinder 1 is the primary issue, look at the bottom of the head:

After that, I pulled the water pump (which seems to have a lot of play, junk?) and the timing cover... and low and behold, steel timing gears? OE steel gears (marked as FORD Belgium) in fact. Being that the truck (and engine) are 1984 model year, I woudl have thought it would have had a fiber gear stock? My engine must be a half breed; all the "gaskets" were factory liquid ("the right stuff" that Ford seems to use on everything), yet I didn't think mine was early production as it had EEC IV with TFI (not EEC III with DSII like early 1984's had?). I have no reason to suspect that this wasn't the original engine, but I might need to verify casting numbers to see for sure. My concern is that if it is a different engine (especially if it was out of a wood chipper or other industrial application), that it has the wrong camshaft for my ECU/setup.

I'm at a standstill. One, it's bedtime and I still have stuff to put up. Two, I have the following hangups keeping me from proceeding:

1. How does one remove the lifters? Magnet on a stick? (yes, I'm keeping the pushrods separated in labeled baggies, and the lifters will go in the baggies with the matching lifters).

2. Is the cam gear removable? Mine seems pressed on; no retainer fasteners (held on by the timing gear thrust?). I do see access to the cam retainer through the gear, but surely that's not how one is supposed to install it, right??? (I thought I shot a pic, but it's not in my phone. I'll shoot one tomorrow).

I'll work on pulling more of the engine tomorrow. Want to see what the rings and pistons look like. Right now I'm leaning towards re-honing the block at home, and putting in new rings, rod/crank bearings, and maybe pistons (I read 300 stock pistons like to crack, correct?). Good course of action?

 

More teardown work today. I found the problem, a few actually.

First, I got my hands on a vintage ridge reamer. Totally forgot to order one, nobody stocks them... but somebody with an indycar/nascar restoration shop near me had an oldschool one for dirt cheap on ebay. Local pickup to the rescue:

(Yes, this was a guy who rebuilds "old" indycar/CART/nascar/classic cars into restored toys for pro drivers to use on track days. Had an indycar and a CART in the lobby, along with a wall of Indycar Olds Aurora and Ford Cosworth engines. I was a kid in a candy store! True story.)

With some fiddling I was able to pull the lifters (put in the labeled baggies with the pushrods). #2 Intake was full of carbon, but it looks like a hunk fell in since there was loose carbon around the lifter bore as well. I got most of it out on the spot, but I will probably take a pick and KO the rest later).

Took a break to purchase number stamps to label rods and rod caps... only after labeling during the teardown, that the other side of each was already stamped. Luckily, they also put hash mark stamps, so I need not worry about getting caps backwards.

Pulled the pistons... and surprise, surprise, all cylinders other than #4 had broken upper compression rings!

The rod and main bearings are worn down to bronze in places. Some dirt marks (but no dirt) in some of the rod bearings. The crank journals have marks, but no nail-catching scoring that I can feel:

Might not hurt to get the journals polished?

Pulled the camshaft. No obvious cam bearing issues, but since the bearings are straight babbit, I can't tell.

Looks like new pistons, rings,and rod/cam bearings are in order.

My buddy tells me I should have the head and block hot tanked and magnafluxed and the valve seats reground. AFAIK there are no head issues, and for a stock build that I'm not dumping 5 tons of money into, such seems more investment than it's worth. I agree, hot tanking would be good for getting the nasty mess cleaned up (and get all the rust and scale out of the water jacket), but is it really worth all the money?

 

[Frank Wyatt]

More teardown work today. I found the problem, a few actually.

First, I got my hands on a vintage ridge reamer. Totally forgot to order one, nobody stocks them... but somebody with an indycar/nascar restoration shop near me had an oldschool one for dirt cheap on ebay. Local pickup to the rescue:

(Yes, this was a guy who rebuilds "old" indycar/CART/nascar/classic cars into restored toys for pro drivers to use on track days. Had an indycar and a CART in the lobby, along with a wall of Indycar Olds Aurora and Ford Cosworth engines. I was a kid in a candy store! True story.)

With some fiddling I was able to pull the lifters (put in the labeled baggies with the pushrods). #2 Intake was full of carbon, but it looks like a hunk fell in since there was loose carbon around the lifter bore as well. I got most of it out on the spot, but I will probably take a pick and KO the rest later).

Took a break to purchase number stamps to label rods and rod caps... only after labeling during the teardown, that the other side of each was already stamped. Luckily, they also put hash mark stamps, so I need not worry about getting caps backwards.

Pulled the pistons... and surprise, surprise, all cylinders other than #4 had broken upper compression rings!

The rod and main bearings are worn down to bronze in places. Some dirt marks (but no dirt) in some of the rod bearings. The crank journals have marks, but no nail-catching scoring that I can feel:

Might not hurt to get the journals polished?

Pulled the camshaft. No obvious cam bearing issues, but since the bearings are straight babbit, I can't tell.

Looks like new pistons, rings,and rod/cam bearings are in order.

My buddy tells me I should have the head and block hot tanked and magnafluxed and the valve seats reground. AFAIK there are no head issues, and for a stock build that I'm not dumping 5 tons of money into, such seems more investment than it's worth. I agree, hot tanking would be good for getting the nasty mess cleaned up (and get all the rust and scale out of the water jacket), but is it really worth all the money?

Getting the head done now is the best practice approach. Once your new pistons and new unbroken rings presents the new higher combustion pressure to the old head you may find head issues you did not know about. Having the head rebuilt now will save the head ache of having to pull the head a second time and the price of another set of head and intake gaskets. With that much wear on the lower end you know the top end has the same miles thus as much wear.

[ArdWrknTrk]

More teardown work today. I found the problem, a few actually.

First, I got my hands on a vintage ridge reamer. Totally forgot to order one, nobody stocks them... but somebody with an indycar/nascar restoration shop near me had an oldschool one for dirt cheap on ebay. Local pickup to the rescue:

(Yes, this was a guy who rebuilds "old" indycar/CART/nascar/classic cars into restored toys for pro drivers to use on track days. Had an indycar and a CART in the lobby, along with a wall of Indycar Olds Aurora and Ford Cosworth engines. I was a kid in a candy store! True story.)

With some fiddling I was able to pull the lifters (put in the labeled baggies with the pushrods). #2 Intake was full of carbon, but it looks like a hunk fell in since there was loose carbon around the lifter bore as well. I got most of it out on the spot, but I will probably take a pick and KO the rest later).

Took a break to purchase number stamps to label rods and rod caps... only after labeling during the teardown, that the other side of each was already stamped. Luckily, they also put hash mark stamps, so I need not worry about getting caps backwards.

Pulled the pistons... and surprise, surprise, all cylinders other than #4 had broken upper compression rings!

The rod and main bearings are worn down to bronze in places. Some dirt marks (but no dirt) in some of the rod bearings. The crank journals have marks, but no nail-catching scoring that I can feel:

Might not hurt to get the journals polished?

Pulled the camshaft. No obvious cam bearing issues, but since the bearings are straight babbit, I can't tell.

Looks like new pistons, rings,and rod/cam bearings are in order.

My buddy tells me I should have the head and block hot tanked and magnafluxed and the valve seats reground. AFAIK there are no head issues, and for a stock build that I'm not dumping 5 tons of money into, such seems more investment than it's worth. I agree, hot tanking would be good for getting the nasty mess cleaned up (and get all the rust and scale out of the water jacket), but is it really worth all the money?

Is there a reason you need to save that particular engine?

By the time you tank the block, grind the crank, get new pistons, rings, gaskets, seals, chemicals, lubes, nuts and bolts, etc you're going to be a HUGE amount of time and ahead just buying a reman engine.

If it's a project you just want to learn on, you have a local mentor and you have a quality, honest, and timely machine shop you can work with, plus parts for cheap and no completion date, then be my guest.

I'm not being discouraging. I'm being honest.

Any person on here that has the knowledge to rebuild that engine is going to say the same.

And, you'll have a warranty.

Not for R&R, but for everything else, as long as you don't overheat it and melt the seals that are typically found in the freeze plugs.

[Frank Wyatt]

Is there a reason you need to save that particular engine?

By the time you tank the block, grind the crank, get new pistons, rings, gaskets, seals, chemicals, lubes, nuts and bolts, etc you're going to be a HUGE amount of time and ahead just buying a reman engine.

If it's a project you just want to learn on, you have a local mentor and you have a quality, honest, and timely machine shop you can work with, plus parts for cheap and no completion date, then be my guest.

I'm not being discouraging. I'm being honest.

Any person on here that has the knowledge to rebuild that engine is going to say the same.

And, you'll have a warranty.

Not for R&R, but for everything else, as long as you don't overheat it and melt the seals that are typically found in the freeze plugs.

+2 on the reman engine. Although I know how and have rebuilt engines before, if was just looking to replace a stock engine with a stock engine that's been rebuilt, I would likely come out cheaper with the reman long block. Even if it doesn't come out cheaper I would have a warranty with the engine that I would not other wise have.

[Gary Lewis]

+2 on the reman engine. Although I know how and have rebuilt engines before, if was just looking to replace a stock engine with a stock engine that's been rebuilt, I would likely come out cheaper with the reman long block. Even if it doesn't come out cheaper I would have a warranty with the engine that I would not other wise have.

+3. I've rebuilt many engines, and there's always the worry that you did something wrong in the build that will come back to bite you. If that happens with a long block the warranty kicks in.

That ridge reamer may be just that - for taking out the ridges. Do you know if it'll hone the whole cylinder?

I know that you want to do this on the cheap. If it was me I'd tally up some of the costs of doing it this way and see how it stacks up to a long block. It might save you some money and a lot of effort, and you'd have a new engine.

[ratdude747]

Is there a reason you need to save that particular engine?By the time you tank the block, grind the crank, get new pistons, rings, gaskets, seals, chemicals, lubes, nuts and bolts, etc you're going to be a HUGE amount of time and ahead just buying a reman engine.If it's a project you just want to learn on, you have a local mentor and you have a quality, honest, and timely machine shop you can work with, plus parts for cheap and no completion date, then be my guest.I'm not being discouraging. I'm being honest.Any person on here that has the knowledge to rebuild that engine is going to say the same.And, you'll have a warranty.Not for R&R, but for everything else, as long as you don't overheat it and melt the seals that are typically found in the freeze plugs.

Having a hard time sourcing a long block... most of the ones in stock are marked "no smog", whatever that means (I do have EGR and AIR, but not cali emissions?). And they go for $1100-$2000 before shipping and core (and a good chunk of the core gets eaten by return shipping?).

 

EDIT: I literally rechecked RockAuto after posting this and finally understood the answer. No SMOG means no exahust port injection holes... which is OK, since I don't have such (my air injection goes between the cats). Rockauto has a "famous brands" long block for just over $1100 before core. Return shipping for the core is also included, so $1100 before shipping $1400 shipped and taxed is the magic number. Looks like they're using a fiber timing gear though... good idea to swap for a steel timing set?

 

 

I'd prefer to not go for a JY engine... you know what they say about the devil you know.

 

I have two other running vehicles, so the truck being dead isn't an issue.

 

As for machine shop costs, I'll need to get local recommendations and some prices. I won't need a full machine job... AFAIK the heads/block won't need decked, and the block doesn't need line-honed and (pending future measurements) bored. Parts wise, I can get a rebuild kit with pistons, bearings (other than for the cam), gaskets, and oil pump for $250 or so on rockauto. I can save a few bones and get a re-main/re-ring kit and pistons separately (about $225), but considering that I found a giant chunk of gasket in the pump pickup tube (looks like pan gasket, somebody been in here before?), I at least want to probably replace the pump pickup. Bang for buck, I agree, long block is probably the way to go (per the edit above).

[ratdude747]

+3. I've rebuilt many engines, and there's always the worry that you did something wrong in the build that will come back to bite you. If that happens with a long block the warranty kicks in.

That ridge reamer may be just that - for taking out the ridges. Do you know if it'll hone the whole cylinder?

I know that you want to do this on the cheap. If it was me I'd tally up some of the costs of doing it this way and see how it stacks up to a long block. It might save you some money and a lot of effort, and you'd have a new engine.

I know the ridge reamer is only for reaming ridges. I needed such to pull the pistons. Big nasty ridge with all that carbon.

[Gary Lewis]

I know the ridge reamer is only for reaming ridges. I needed such to pull the pistons. Big nasty ridge with all that carbon.

Ok, I misunderstood.