Lugging at speed/No power at WOT

[ratdude747]

Not much to lose.

Put in a quart of MMO...cheaper than ATF and made for this purpose. Was considering B12, but that's probably too aggressive/volatile.

Here goes nothing.

Time has passed, no oil additives helped at all, and now that I have a running 1995 Ranger, an engine hoist and stand, and 2 weeks with mostly no work (besides ~3 days of work@home horse puckey), I've torn into her to get to the bottom of this and fix her up. She's taken me all over Indiana, all the way out to KS and back, and on the several hour journey to pick up the engine hoist and stand from OH and KY (respectively) right before OH was locked down (and for $175 combined too ).

I have a lot of pictures, mainly for reference for when the time to re-assemble comes. But there are several I have for you. Made some good surprises, and one bad surprise.

As my former boss would say, bad news first, so here's the bad news. My flex plate is chowdered... looks like several starter engagements while running. Still usable, but rough. Probably will replace it (or replace the ring gear if it's significantly cheaper, just like a flywheel, right?). Also had some bad luck with electrical connectors, but that's in another thread. Determined that the engine mounts, lower rad hose, and (probably) the water pump need swapped as a well. Has the original radiator, which was working, but the drain is plugged with rust. Not sure if I should clean it up or replace it- it has soldered brass tanks, not modern plastic tanks.

Tear down:

Top end didn't look bad:

As far as I can tell, all of the valvetrain is getting good oil (besides Exhaust #2, but I think it sloshed out, the pushrod was clean as a whistle). Some caked oil inside (light dark brown/black coating), but virtually no internal sludge. Looks like she saw regular oil changes. Valve cover, lifter cover, and manifold fasteners were very loose though (the former two are likely due to the cork gaskets shrinking and failing)

The cylinders do still have the factory honing present, but the pistons are covered in flaky carbon:

Cylinder 1 (the black sooty nasty cylinder):

Cylinder 2: (2-5 were showing normal ash colors):

Cylinder 3:

Cylinder 4:

Cylinder 5:

Cylinder 6:

(NOTE: Any water seen was seepage through loose spark plugs when I washed the engine down after removal from the truck.

Other than that one line (which is a mark, not a groove, it's not cut into the cylinder), I still see factory honing. Maybe all the block needs is a re-hone (plus new rings and possibly pistons?)? Such is a huge releif... but where all the oil is coming from has yet to be determined.

That line makes me think that rings are indeed stuck... but it's just a discoloration, my nail didn't catch on it.

Confirming the suspicion that cylinder 1 is the primary issue, look at the bottom of the head:

After that, I pulled the water pump (which seems to have a lot of play, junk?) and the timing cover... and low and behold, steel timing gears? OE steel gears (marked as FORD Belgium) in fact. Being that the truck (and engine) are 1984 model year, I woudl have thought it would have had a fiber gear stock? My engine must be a half breed; all the "gaskets" were factory liquid ("the right stuff" that Ford seems to use on everything), yet I didn't think mine was early production as it had EEC IV with TFI (not EEC III with DSII like early 1984's had?). I have no reason to suspect that this wasn't the original engine, but I might need to verify casting numbers to see for sure. My concern is that if it is a different engine (especially if it was out of a wood chipper or other industrial application), that it has the wrong camshaft for my ECU/setup.

I'm at a standstill. One, it's bedtime and I still have stuff to put up. Two, I have the following hangups keeping me from proceeding:

1. How does one remove the lifters? Magnet on a stick? (yes, I'm keeping the pushrods separated in labeled baggies, and the lifters will go in the baggies with the matching lifters).

2. Is the cam gear removable? Mine seems pressed on; no retainer fasteners (held on by the timing gear thrust?). I do see access to the cam retainer through the gear, but surely that's not how one is supposed to install it, right??? (I thought I shot a pic, but it's not in my phone. I'll shoot one tomorrow).

I'll work on pulling more of the engine tomorrow. Want to see what the rings and pistons look like. Right now I'm leaning towards re-honing the block at home, and putting in new rings, rod/crank bearings, and maybe pistons (I read 300 stock pistons like to crack, correct?). Good course of action?

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Time has passed, no oil additives helped at all, and now that I have a running 1995 Ranger, an engine hoist and stand, and 2 weeks with mostly no work (besides ~3 days of work@home horse puckey), I've torn into her to get to the bottom of this and fix her up. She's taken me all over Indiana, all the way out to KS and back, and on the several hour journey to pick up the engine hoist and stand from OH and KY (respectively) right before OH was locked down (and for $175 combined too ).

I have a lot of pictures, mainly for reference for when the time to re-assemble comes. But there are several I have for you. Made some good surprises, and one bad surprise.

As my former boss would say, bad news first, so here's the bad news. My flex plate is chowdered... looks like several starter engagements while running. Still usable, but rough. Probably will replace it (or replace the ring gear if it's significantly cheaper, just like a flywheel, right?). Also had some bad luck with electrical connectors, but that's in another thread. Determined that the engine mounts, lower rad hose, and (probably) the water pump need swapped as a well. Has the original radiator, which was working, but the drain is plugged with rust. Not sure if I should clean it up or replace it- it has soldered brass tanks, not modern plastic tanks.

Tear down:

Top end didn't look bad:

As far as I can tell, all of the valvetrain is getting good oil (besides Exhaust #2, but I think it sloshed out, the pushrod was clean as a whistle). Some caked oil inside (light dark brown/black coating), but virtually no internal sludge. Looks like she saw regular oil changes. Valve cover, lifter cover, and manifold fasteners were very loose though (the former two are likely due to the cork gaskets shrinking and failing)

The cylinders do still have the factory honing present, but the pistons are covered in flaky carbon:

Cylinder 1 (the black sooty nasty cylinder):

Cylinder 2: (2-5 were showing normal ash colors):

Cylinder 3:

Cylinder 4:

Cylinder 5:

Cylinder 6:

(NOTE: Any water seen was seepage through loose spark plugs when I washed the engine down after removal from the truck.

Other than that one line (which is a mark, not a groove, it's not cut into the cylinder), I still see factory honing. Maybe all the block needs is a re-hone (plus new rings and possibly pistons?)? Such is a huge releif... but where all the oil is coming from has yet to be determined.

That line makes me think that rings are indeed stuck... but it's just a discoloration, my nail didn't catch on it.

Confirming the suspicion that cylinder 1 is the primary issue, look at the bottom of the head:

After that, I pulled the water pump (which seems to have a lot of play, junk?) and the timing cover... and low and behold, steel timing gears? OE steel gears (marked as FORD Belgium) in fact. Being that the truck (and engine) are 1984 model year, I woudl have thought it would have had a fiber gear stock? My engine must be a half breed; all the "gaskets" were factory liquid ("the right stuff" that Ford seems to use on everything), yet I didn't think mine was early production as it had EEC IV with TFI (not EEC III with DSII like early 1984's had?). I have no reason to suspect that this wasn't the original engine, but I might need to verify casting numbers to see for sure. My concern is that if it is a different engine (especially if it was out of a wood chipper or other industrial application), that it has the wrong camshaft for my ECU/setup.

I'm at a standstill. One, it's bedtime and I still have stuff to put up. Two, I have the following hangups keeping me from proceeding:

1. How does one remove the lifters? Magnet on a stick? (yes, I'm keeping the pushrods separated in labeled baggies, and the lifters will go in the baggies with the matching lifters).

2. Is the cam gear removable? Mine seems pressed on; no retainer fasteners (held on by the timing gear thrust?). I do see access to the cam retainer through the gear, but surely that's not how one is supposed to install it, right??? (I thought I shot a pic, but it's not in my phone. I'll shoot one tomorrow).

I'll work on pulling more of the engine tomorrow. Want to see what the rings and pistons look like. Right now I'm leaning towards re-honing the block at home, and putting in new rings, rod/crank bearings, and maybe pistons (I read 300 stock pistons like to crack, correct?). Good course of action?

 

Flexplate ring gears are welded on, flywheel gears are heat shrunk in place.

Get a new flexplate, they're not too expensive.

Yes, a magnetic pick up tool can get the lifters out, unless there's a lot of oil suction in the bores.

That big cam gear doesn't seem possible to be part of the billet.

Though I know nothing about Ford Europe, it is going to be keyed and pressed on.

Did you do a leakdown before pulling the engine apart?

That could tell you a lot about #1.

Whether it's rings or guides letting the oil into that cylinder

Maybe there's a bad misfire, causing buildup?

 

[Gary Lewis]

Flexplate ring gears are welded on, flywheel gears are heat shrunk in place.

Get a new flexplate, they're not too expensive.

Yes, a magnetic pick up tool can get the lifters out, unless there's a lot of oil suction in the bores.

That big cam gear doesn't seem possible to be part of the billet.

Though I know nothing about Ford Europe, it is going to be keyed and pressed on.

Did you do a leakdown before pulling the engine apart?

That could tell you a lot about #1.

Whether it's rings or guides letting the oil into that cylinder

Maybe there's a bad misfire, causing buildup?

If you have access to an inside micrometer I'd check out the cylinders. If not, Page 14 of the General Gasoline Engine Service document (Documentation/Engines/General Engine Service explains how to do that with a ring. And it tells where to measure and how to calculate the wear/taper. And Page 15 discusses when and how to hone the cylinders.

And Page 22 of the FSM section on the 300 six (Documentation/Engines/300 Six and then the Instructions tab) tell how to remove the gears and replace them.

[ratdude747]

Flexplate ring gears are welded on, flywheel gears are heat shrunk in place.

Get a new flexplate, they're not too expensive.

Yes, a magnetic pick up tool can get the lifters out, unless there's a lot of oil suction in the bores.

That big cam gear doesn't seem possible to be part of the billet.

Though I know nothing about Ford Europe, it is going to be keyed and pressed on.

Did you do a leakdown before pulling the engine apart?

That could tell you a lot about #1.

Whether it's rings or guides letting the oil into that cylinder

Maybe there's a bad misfire, causing buildup?

Look at older thread posts. Cylinder 1's "fake" leakdown was straight into the crankcase, and nothing but the crankcase. The "lugging" that this thread sought to investigate was, indeed a partial misfire, especially on cylinder 1.

[ratdude747]

If you have access to an inside micrometer I'd check out the cylinders. If not, Page 14 of the General Gasoline Engine Service document (Documentation/Engines/General Engine Service explains how to do that with a ring. And it tells where to measure and how to calculate the wear/taper. And Page 15 discusses when and how to hone the cylinders.

And Page 22 of the FSM section on the 300 six (Documentation/Engines/300 Six and then the Instructions tab) tell how to remove the gears and replace them.

No, but I'd like to work on such. Harbor freight has telescoping gauges for cheap... but their mic's don't go big enough. I have a couple sets of digital calipers and feeler gauges at work (I have to go in for an hour, I'll fetch 1 each while I'm in), but I don't trust calipers for this tight a tolerance. One of my coworkers gave me a "low cost but good quality" suggestion... but the set is $184, and the online store is shuttered due to COVID. Damn.

Good call on the instructions... I freaking read those once and forgot they existed ( I even saved a copy on my server!). Looks like I don't need to remove the gear to pull the cam from the engine... but I might not even need to go there if I don't need to machine shop the engine and I don't replace cam bearings. The gears are in great shape, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it?

One other note- I see "honing tools" marked as "glaze breakers" for sale places. If the cylinders pass inspection, maybe that's all they need?

[Gary Lewis]

No, but I'd like to work on such. Harbor freight has telescoping gauges for cheap... but their mic's don't go big enough. I have a couple sets of digital calipers and feeler gauges at work (I have to go in for an hour, I'll fetch 1 each while I'm in), but I don't trust calipers for this tight a tolerance. One of my coworkers gave me a "low cost but good quality" suggestion... but the set is $184, and the online store is shuttered due to COVID. Damn.

Good call on the instructions... I freaking read those once and forgot they existed ( I even saved a copy on my server!). Looks like I don't need to remove the gear to pull the cam from the engine... but I might not even need to go there if I don't need to machine shop the engine and I don't replace cam bearings. The gears are in great shape, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it?

One other note- I see "honing tools" marked as "glaze breakers" for sale places. If the cylinders pass inspection, maybe that's all they need?

You can use a ring and check the cylinders w/it and feeler gauges. It is the difference in readings that is important, not the actual dimension.

Yes, you are probably just needing to break the glaze. But don't miss what the General Engine Service section says:

Honing is recommended for refinishing cylinder walls only when there is no visible sign of cross hatching (hone pattern) remaining, the walls have minor scuffs or scratches, or for fitting pistons to the specified clearance.

You have cross-hatching showing on some of the cylinders, and don't want to take much material away if you are using stock-sized pistons. So you want the hone that will leave the right cross-hatch but not take much off.

[ratdude747]

You can use a ring and check the cylinders w/it and feeler gauges. It is the difference in readings that is important, not the actual dimension.

Yes, you are probably just needing to break the glaze. But don't miss what the General Engine Service section says:

Honing is recommended for refinishing cylinder walls only when there is no visible sign of cross hatching (hone pattern) remaining, the walls have minor scuffs or scratches, or for fitting pistons to the specified clearance.

You have cross-hatching showing on some of the cylinders, and don't want to take much material away if you are using stock-sized pistons. So you want the hone that will leave the right cross-hatch but not take much off.

Actually, I still have crosshatching showing on all cylinders, everywhere but the "line" that all cylinders have. If anything, the line is raised, not cut... so run a glaze breaking hone through, and voila?

As for the pistons, Worth trying to measure and reuse such? Or should I just buy a new set just to be safe? They're badly carboned (no idea yet on how bad the ring lands are), and if new "improved" pistons are indeed stronger, there's no better time to swap them.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Actually, I still have crosshatching showing on all cylinders, everywhere but the "line" that all cylinders have. If anything, the line is raised, not cut... so run a glaze breaking hone through, and voila?

As for the pistons, Worth trying to measure and reuse such? Or should I just buy a new set just to be safe? They're badly carboned (no idea yet on how bad the ring lands are), and if new "improved" pistons are indeed stronger, there's no better time to swap them.

Assuming you mean pistons, I'd seriously consider new. They are aluminum and work against steel rings and cast iron cylinders, so they are what wears the most. And they aren't that expensive.

As for the hone, assuming the wear is w/in tolerance, or close, then a glaze-busting hone is probably all that is called for.

[1986F150Six]

Assuming you mean pistons, I'd seriously consider new. They are aluminum and work against steel rings and cast iron cylinders, so they are what wears the most. And they aren't that expensive.

As for the hone, assuming the wear is w/in tolerance, or close, then a glaze-busting hone is probably all that is called for.

If replacing pistons, the pistons used in 1996 [maybe 1995, too?] were said to be improved. They are hyperutectic and equipped with metric rings, with less friction.

Like these [unfortunately, these are +.030"]:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/x6-New-OEM-Engine-Piston-pin-030-F6TZ-6108-CBA-For-1996-Ford-4-9L-300-I6/333314908958?epid=1237572785&hash=item4d9b1de31e:g:k1AAAOSwJQxdbDIE

[Frank Wyatt]

If replacing pistons, the pistons used in 1996 [maybe 1995, too?] were said to be improved. They are hyperutectic and equipped with metric rings, with less friction.

Like these [unfortunately, these are +.030"]:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/x6-New-OEM-Engine-Piston-pin-030-F6TZ-6108-CBA-For-1996-Ford-4-9L-300-I6/333314908958?epid=1237572785&hash=item4d9b1de31e:g:k1AAAOSwJQxdbDIE

The '96 EFI head had a smaller combustion chamber but the advertised compression ratio did not change leading me to the conclusion that there must be a difference in the pistons, ether the compression height or the cc's of the piston dish. The 300 carb head has 76 cc chambers while the EFI 300 69 cc and 240 has 68 cc chambers. Therefore to not to lose compression the pistons used needs to to match the year range of the head used. If a increase of compression is desired one could use carb era pistons in combination with a EFI era head. Going to the smaller chamber head will get you a .5 increase in compression but will increase your cost by having to get the head redone as you would not know anything about it.