ArdWrknTrk Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Correct. Right side nearly worn out, left side has plenty of life. Same amount of pitting on each rotor. Gary: the other gaskets in the kit seem fine so far. The only issues have been the timing seal and the water pump and t-stat gaskets. Pull the left side caliper and see if the piston is sticking. If that's fully functional I expect the right side has rust under the dust boot and refuses to retract once applied. Calipers are cheap and easy to rebuild, ask Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Pull the left side caliper and see if the piston is sticking. If that's fully functional I expect the right side has rust under the dust boot and refuses to retract once applied. Calipers are cheap and easy to rebuild, ask Gary. Yes, calipers are cheap to rebuild. And our calipers are easy to rebuild. (But the 1978 calipers take 3.5 hands to get the boots on. Ask WelderScott as he came back two weeks ago yesterday 'cause he couldn't get them on. And it took the two of us quite a while to do it.) There's really not much to the calipers. There's the piston, which may need replaced because some of them are phenolic with a metal crown and the metal is usually bad. Then there's a square-cut o-ring and a boot. The o-ring just sits in a groove and the boot has a metal ring on it that presses down into a recess. So most of the work is in cleaning it. Pull it apart and use brake cleaner and a brass wire brush to get all of the deposits off. Lube things with brake fluid and put them back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratdude747 Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 Yes, calipers are cheap to rebuild. And our calipers are easy to rebuild. (But the 1978 calipers take 3.5 hands to get the boots on. Ask WelderScott as he came back two weeks ago yesterday 'cause he couldn't get them on. And it took the two of us quite a while to do it.) There's really not much to the calipers. There's the piston, which may need replaced because some of them are phenolic with a metal crown and the metal is usually bad. Then there's a square-cut o-ring and a boot. The o-ring just sits in a groove and the boot has a metal ring on it that presses down into a recess. So most of the work is in cleaning it. Pull it apart and use brake cleaner and a brass wire brush to get all of the deposits off. Lube things with brake fluid and put them back together. I've heard that it's best to not rebuild calipers when replacements are available... Source: Rationale being that usually the seals aren't the entire issue and usually something is rotted. Rebuilt calipers aren't usually too expensive, so its' not worth it if the rebuild quality is OK. The right side rotor was hanging up a bit come the think of it... I had the rims off earlier in the week while trying to trace the source of my brake pulsation (when I noted the wear issue)... didn't think anything of it then, but perhaps that combined with the pitting is the cause of the mismatched pad wear. ----- Didn't know about the proportioning valve (or what the switch on it did)... I didn't have the brake warning light on nor did the master cylinder run dry; the last time this happened (rear line blew out where it was rubbing on a frame rivet), I didn't reset anything and was able to bleed it out without too much trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 I've heard that it's best to not rebuild calipers when replacements are available... Source: Rationale being that usually the seals aren't the entire issue and usually something is rotted. Rebuilt calipers aren't usually too expensive, so its' not worth it if the rebuild quality is OK. The right side rotor was hanging up a bit come the think of it... I had the rims off earlier in the week while trying to trace the source of my brake pulsation (when I noted the wear issue)... didn't think anything of it then, but perhaps that combined with the pitting is the cause of the mismatched pad wear. ----- Didn't know about the proportioning valve (or what the switch on it did)... I didn't have the brake warning light on nor did the master cylinder run dry; the last time this happened (rear line blew out where it was rubbing on a frame rivet), I didn't reset anything and was able to bleed it out without too much trouble. I don't understand that logic. If you go to the parts store and buy a caliper many/most are rebuilt. Do you trust someone that's doing it as quickly as possible to do a better job than you can do? As for something else being rotted, there is nothing else. The caliper assembly consists of: 1. Caliper body 2. Piston 3. O-ring 4. Boot 5. Bleed valve In the two sets of calipers I've rebuild there was zero wear in the bore. (And even if there was a rebuilder may well use the body anyway.) So if you replace the piston, the o-ring, and the boot the only thing left is the bleed valve. And in the calipers for Big Blue I replaced them. So I have calipers that are every bit as good as the ones I could have purchased, and probably better as I used top shelf parts and know they were put together correctly. Now, I'm not saying you need to rebuild yours. I'm just saying that there is nothing else to rot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 I don't understand that logic. If you go to the parts store and buy a caliper many/most are rebuilt. Do you trust someone that's doing it as quickly as possible to do a better job than you can do? As for something else being rotted, there is nothing else. The caliper assembly consists of: 1. Caliper body 2. Piston 3. O-ring 4. Boot 5. Bleed valve In the two sets of calipers I've rebuild there was zero wear in the bore. (And even if there was a rebuilder may well use the body anyway.) So if you replace the piston, the o-ring, and the boot the only thing left is the bleed valve. And in the calipers for Big Blue I replaced them. So I have calipers that are every bit as good as the ones I could have purchased, and probably better as I used top shelf parts and know they were put together correctly. Now, I'm not saying you need to rebuild yours. I'm just saying that there is nothing else to rot. Color me jade Gary, but I'm so sick of this guy (and hundreds of his Ilk) spewing 🐂 on YouTube I've given up watching, except for entertainment. Not that I don't repeat misinformation (like the 460 4X4 T-19 1st ratio) but at least I own it and look to correct myself. Wives tales are a dime a dozen. Poor practices even more so. But like any cultists, when presented with incontrovertible facts they feel threatened and dig their heels in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Color me jade Gary, but I'm so sick of this guy (and hundreds of his Ilk) spewing 🐂 on YouTube I've given up watching, except for entertainment. Not that I don't repeat misinformation (like the 460 4X4 T-19 1st ratio) but at least I own it and look to correct myself. Wives tales are a dime a dozen. Poor practices even more so. But like any cultists, when presented with incontrovertible facts they feel threatened and dig their heels in. I agree. I'll confess that I didn't watch the video. Didn't feel I had to if he is making statements like that. If it was a carb then I might agree that a rebuilt one can be better. Not that it will be better, but that it can be. The reason there is that the throttle plate of a carb wears and the re-builders measure the wear and reject those that are worn too far. But a home rebuilder probably wouldn't. So there's a chance that rebuilt can be better. But in the case of the calipers, the wear isn't on the body of the caliper. At least not on those I've seen. So if you are replacing everything but the body you have essentially a new caliper assembly. And if you use top shelf parts you probably have a better caliper than one from a rebuilder 'cause they probably don't use the most expensive parts. One of the problems with this internet age is that it is so easy to publish. And then you become "the expert". Trust me, I get email all the time asking for this or that because I have a web site and that must mean I'm an expert. But I'm not! I just have more Ford documentation than most people have - or even should have. But that doesn't mean I know what's in the documentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratdude747 Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 I agree. I'll confess that I didn't watch the video. Didn't feel I had to if he is making statements like that. If it was a carb then I might agree that a rebuilt one can be better. Not that it will be better, but that it can be. The reason there is that the throttle plate of a carb wears and the re-builders measure the wear and reject those that are worn too far. But a home rebuilder probably wouldn't. So there's a chance that rebuilt can be better. But in the case of the calipers, the wear isn't on the body of the caliper. At least not on those I've seen. So if you are replacing everything but the body you have essentially a new caliper assembly. And if you use top shelf parts you probably have a better caliper than one from a rebuilder 'cause they probably don't use the most expensive parts. One of the problems with this internet age is that it is so easy to publish. And then you become "the expert". Trust me, I get email all the time asking for this or that because I have a web site and that must mean I'm an expert. But I'm not! I just have more Ford documentation than most people have - or even should have. But that doesn't mean I know what's in the documentation. I think his comment was directed towards people who think tossing a seal kit at a caliper is the same as a fully rebuilt caliper... and those who are asking "can I rebuild it" probably shouldn't be (in the video he did actually rebuild the caliper, in this case, off a 1979 Fairmont he later completely rebuilt from the ground up into a sleeper). I've personally not had issues with off-the-shelf rebuilt calipers... and once the core is settled (and return shipping factored in), I can get rebuilt calipers in the ballpark of $20-$25 shipped. Rebuild kit + piston runs around $15 shipped... from the same supplier as the former. $10 for less work and a warranty... hard to say in my case. It's not that that I doubt that I could rebuild it (since I do have compressed air to remove the piston), it's more a question if a warranty and the time/potential frustration is worth $10. I'm leaning towards just getting a caliper and calling it a day for that reason. It's not like this is the engine or the carb. I'll agree to disagree on Youtube repair channels... I will say this: some are good (many of which I'm subscribed to), some not so much (which I avoid like the plague). ---- Run into a minor hangup... per rockauto's catalog, in 10/83 Ford changed from a 15/16" wheel cylinder to a 1" wheel cylinder. I would rather not have to pull the brakes apart twice, and since I was planning on replacing both, It would be acceptable to replace both with the 1" cylinders, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 I think his comment was directed towards people who think tossing a seal kit at a caliper is the same as a fully rebuilt caliper... and those who are asking "can I rebuild it" probably shouldn't be (in the video he did actually rebuild the caliper, in this case, off a 1979 Fairmont he later completely rebuilt from the ground up into a sleeper). I've personally not had issues with off-the-shelf rebuilt calipers... and once the core is settled (and return shipping factored in), I can get rebuilt calipers in the ballpark of $20-$25 shipped. Rebuild kit + piston runs around $15 shipped... from the same supplier as the former. $10 for less work and a warranty... hard to say in my case. It's not that that I doubt that I could rebuild it (since I do have compressed air to remove the piston), it's more a question if a warranty and the time/potential frustration is worth $10. I'm leaning towards just getting a caliper and calling it a day for that reason. It's not like this is the engine or the carb. I'll agree to disagree on Youtube repair channels... I will say this: some are good (many of which I'm subscribed to), some not so much (which I avoid like the plague). ---- Run into a minor hangup... per rockauto's catalog, in 10/83 Ford changed from a 15/16" wheel cylinder to a 1" wheel cylinder. I would rather not have to pull the brakes apart twice, and since I was planning on replacing both, It would be acceptable to replace both with the 1" cylinders, right? Rockauto is talking about the Master cylinder bore, I believe. Definitely need to be matching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratdude747 Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 Rockauto is talking about the Master cylinder bore, I believe. Definitely need to be matching. No, they are talking about wheel cylinders: FWIW, they only list one model of Master cylinder (which has a 1" bore) used from 1977 to 1986. Thus, unless there is a difference in the proportioning valve that happened at the same time, and since I don't know what's on the other side, I'll go for the newer 1" option on both sides. Edit: toss that... per the parts list on the site, they also show the brake shoes and other parts being different. Hot mess... will try to figure out what all changed, and if it's a case where the only things different are things I'm replacing anyway, I'll just make sure everything I order matches. Edit2: Looked further down the list... they show for the full cylinders (not repair kits), for 1984's built before 10/1983, replace both sides with 15/16". The 1" is the old version that they don't list as a repair part. Makes me think they tried upsizing to 1" for the 1984 year, but found an issue and quickly reverted to 15/16"??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 No, they are talking about wheel cylinders: FWIW, they only list one model of Master cylinder (which has a 1" bore) used from 1977 to 1986. Thus, unless there is a difference in the proportioning valve that happened at the same time, and since I don't know what's on the other side, I'll go for the newer 1" option on both sides. Edit: toss that... per the parts list on the site, they also show the brake shoes and other parts being different. Hot mess... will try to figure out what all changed, and if it's a case where the only things different are things I'm replacing anyway, I'll just make sure everything I order matches. Edit2: Looked further down the list... they show for the full cylinders (not repair kits), for 1984's built before 10/1983, replace both sides with 15/16". The 1" is the old version that they don't list as a repair part. Makes me think they tried upsizing to 1" for the 1984 year, but found an issue and quickly reverted to 15/16"??? What was your build date? This says prior to 10/83 there's the 1" and afterwards 15/16" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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