Blacktop Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 ...and the MANY I've found in JYs with duals, I've never encountered even ONE that ran better with duals than all the ones with stock or direct-replacement exhaust. The runability of jy trucks might be a bit of a low standard I'm hoping eventually to have a dual set up on my truck. But for now, I have a single cherrybomb glasspack, no converter dumping out on the passenger side. It sounds awesome and surprisingly, not as loud as I was expecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Not IME. Not financially (in MPG, hp, maintenance costs...) or in driving pleasure (noise, heat, leaks, or any noticeable improvement in performance). Steve, I think most car and truck enthusiasts would disagree with you regarding the driving pleasure part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Not IME. Not financially (in MPG, hp, maintenance costs...) or in driving pleasure (noise, heat, leaks, or any noticeable improvement in performance). Steve, I think most car and truck enthusiasts would disagree with you regarding the driving pleasure part. 460 4x4 shorties are thin on the vine. Options are MUCH better for Windsors. I'd say single out is better for scavenging, and you don't have to mess around with fuel tank heatshields or receiver hitch problems trying to cross over to the left for a symmetrical "look" I built my exhaust with a 3" stainless Magnaflow tailpipe, the stock 2 1/2" head pipes, a giant 14Ga. all welded school bus muffler from the Walker medium duty catalog with two flanges welded on for the stock head pipe flange. I can take pics in the daylight if you want, or you can see it coming together on FTE back in '11 sometime.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 The runability of jy trucks might be a bit of a low standardBut that fact that they wind up in the JY so soon after the headers & duals says a lot. To me, at least. This is what's going on the '93 I'm building: https://supermotors.net/getfile/1070601/thumbnail/ypipe.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/1072138/thumbnail/08muffler20y.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/1072487/thumbnail/walker22798.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/1075927/thumbnail/exhanger.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/1144829/thumbnail/09tailpipe25.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 But that fact that they wind up in the JY so soon after the headers & duals says a lot. To me, at least. LOL, that's ridiculous! Install a set of headers and duals on a truck, and it works so poorly it ends up in the junkyard soon after???...lol. C'mon Steve83, you can come up with something better than that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 But that fact that they wind up in the JY so soon after the headers & duals says a lot. To me, at least. LOL, that's ridiculous! Install a set of headers and duals on a truck, and it works so poorly it ends up in the junkyard soon after???...lol. C'mon Steve83, you can come up with something better than that! Ok, I am now on my third Ford truck. First was a 1958 F100 originally had the 223 ci six with a 3 speed column shift. After my neighbor found that the 1957 Ranchero he acquired had a terminal case of frame rot, he traded me the 312 with Borg-Warner T85 and overdrive. When I installed it in the F100 I used an FE swap mount kit as the car motor mounts are the same style on the Y-block and FE. The original truck mounts these had were a single pad at the front and a pair on the sides of the clutch housing. The gist of this is, I didn't want the elbow roaster cross over pipe nor the skinny restrictive manifolds. I manged to find a pair of T-bird manifolds and with some creative grinding and fitting was able to get a nice set of dual exhausts using Corvair Turbo mufflers (the real ones, not the ones a lot of places sell. No H pipe, just plain duals that exited under the front part of the bed, just like the factory singles did. Gas tank was behind the seat so no interference. Second truck was a 1977 F150, originally 300 six and a C4. Once I acquired a pickup camper and started using it, the 300 was ok, C4 questionable. I had been given a bunch of FE parts including a disassembled 390 camper special engine and a C6 for an FE block. This one was planned carefully, first the right side exhaust manifold is truck specific due to the outlet design to clear both the frame and starter, second, due to the front fuel tank location, the system had to go down the right side. I could not see the point in bringing one back across to the left side as it would just create more potential for rust out. What I designed and had my local shop build was right side back straight, left side crossed under the transmission extension housing (non of mine have been or are 4WD) at the point they came together, I had them install an H pipe, then left side Corvair Turbo muffler on edge (oval standing up) followed by the right side allowing the pipes to be fairly close together. Tailpipes ran in the same route the original single took and exited on a 45° angle under the right rear part of the bed. This way they were clear of the camper when it was installed. I wasn't trying to look cool or anything except have a nice free flowing exhaust. It did sound real good especially when you got on it. Current truck still has the factory muffler after 33 years, it has 2 1/2" dual pipes from the engine, down the right side into the muffler, then out with a 3" tailpipe, over the axle and straight out behind the right side dual wheels. It is pretty low restriction, the only "improvement" I made was at the recommendation of my exhaust shop, I removed the double screen in the end of the tailpipe. Since the truck is a non-catalyst vehicle the screens were flame arrestors in case of a backfire. Wife was following me on a campout while I was towing our 30 foot 5th wheel, cold engine, top of the on ramp and leveling off, I let off the gas, and she said there was a 3 foot flame from the tailpipe when the air pumps didn't divert fast enough resulting in a nice "boom" from it. Due to experience on cars, no headers for me on a truck, I don't want or need the aggravation of the leaks, rattles and just general PITA from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 ...works so poorly it ends up in the junkyard soon after?I'm not saying it's what would happen if you put duals on yours. I'm saying it's what I surmise from what I've observed over the past 30 years. You're entitled to interpret your observations YOUR way, but I'm only going to post MY observations & opinions. My vehicles have always run great with factory or direct-replacement exhaust, and they run that way substantially longer than everyone I've encountered IRL & online who installs modified exhaust systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 My vehicles have always run great with factory or direct-replacement exhaust, and they run that way substantially longer than everyone I've encountered IRL & online who installs modified exhaust systems. That's great as long as you can get something that fits and works. I had a 1971 Colony Park, originally a 429 2 barrel, after a little research I found the only difference in 2 and 4 barrel engines was the intake and carburetor so I installed a used intake and a Holley service replacement carb. Car had a single exhaust, with a pretty good size pipe and muffler. I believe the tailpipe was 2 1/4", the aftermarket decided in a nice example of MBA think that since the exhaust was shared in common with the Ford wagons that a nice 1 7/8" tailpipe was the best seller and all other sizes were dropped. Try to make a 429 4 barrel breathe through a tailpipe designed for a 302 2 barrel, pretty good until you either go to pull out on the interstate or pass someone and you get all the effect of a plugged converter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 My vehicles have always run great with factory or direct-replacement exhaust, and they run that way substantially longer than everyone I've encountered IRL & online who installs modified exhaust systems. That's great as long as you can get something that fits and works. I had a 1971 Colony Park, originally a 429 2 barrel, after a little research I found the only difference in 2 and 4 barrel engines was the intake and carburetor so I installed a used intake and a Holley service replacement carb. Car had a single exhaust, with a pretty good size pipe and muffler. I believe the tailpipe was 2 1/4", the aftermarket decided in a nice example of MBA think that since the exhaust was shared in common with the Ford wagons that a nice 1 7/8" tailpipe was the best seller and all other sizes were dropped. Try to make a 429 4 barrel breathe through a tailpipe designed for a 302 2 barrel, pretty good until you either go to pull out on the interstate or pass someone and you get all the effect of a plugged converter. Bill - You don't like headers, but with the exception of the driver's side hitting the frame, my L&L's have not given me a bit of problem. No leaks of any kind. And, since I know that a piece of 1/4" plate between the perch and the mount will solve the interference problem, when Scotty said I should go with headers I changed my mind. Actually, his exact statement was "As to the HP numbers they are WITH headers. Manifolds are restrictive, made of a different material than the cast iron heads and WILL over time cause bolt and exhaust bolt ear damage. Avoid them." And later he said "Stock manifolds will kill hp and tq as I am sure you know. OEM manifolds are made of a different material than the heads, expand at a different rate and cause issues with bolt breakage as well and exhaust ear issues." So I plan to go with L&L's EFI headers. Same 1/2" thick flange as the ones I have, but they'll match up to the EFI ports. Then I can bolt on the old exhaust that I cut off, tack on the cherry bombs, and take it somewhere to have a full exhaust system put on with Magnaflow muffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 That's great as long as you can get something that fits and works.I think you CAN get direct-replacement exhaust components for bullnoses.Manifolds are restrictive...That's pretty vague & subjective. Ford designed the engine, and the manifolds. Who can say better than Ford what qualifies as "restrictive"? I know the original exhaust manifold on my I6 was not particularly breezy, but it had another function (preheating the charge air for cold weather). But the ones on the 4.9L are widely considered to be at least as good as (if not better than) any headers."...OEM manifolds are made of a different material than the heads, expand at a different rate and cause issues with bolt breakage as well and exhaust ear issues."So is he claiming that every header available is made of the same material as Ford heads? Of course not, which means that statement is irrelevant. But let's examine it... The heads aren't actually "cast Iron" - they're steel. The coefficient of thermal expansion for every common type of steel (except stainless) is 6.5 E-6/°F. For the cast Iron manifolds, it's 6.7. Assuming they're assembled at 80°F, the head temperature will rise ~140°F as it reaches normal operating temperature, and the manifold might rise 1,000. So if the head & manifold are 20" long (on a V8 with four ~4" cylinders plus some extra between them & at each end), the head will grow (20x140x0.0000065)=0.0182", and the manifold will grow 0.134". So they'll move a total of 0.1158" relative to each other. Given that Ford puts a small bolt hole in an ear near the center of the manifold, and all others are oversized (meaning the manifold stays roughly centered on the head); that means that the manifold will creep ~0.0579" along the head at each end, when they're at operating temps. That's not quite 1/16" (0.0625"), which (big surprise) is about the difference in the manifold bolt diameter to the hole diameter. https://supermotors.net/getfile/770511/thumbnail/12greaseman.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/1143092/thumbnail/20181210_174534.jpg You'd almost think Ford designed it to tolerate that temperature change! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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