Gary Lewis Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 I took the heads to the guy known as "The Professor" (Eric Weingartner of Weingartner Racing). He ran a flow test as well as a pressure test to see what they would do. Here are the numbers the test produced: I am glad I took them to Eric for a few different reasons: 1) I wasnt sure if the springs the heads came with would work well with my cam. Turns out they are way too heavy to use with a flat tappet cam. Eric thought it would have wiped the lobes off. The kit I bought came with springs. So they will be used. 2) The valves are so long in these heads that they will need to be shimmed up considerably. I had no clue as to go about setting up the installation height. So the parts needed are being ordered and installed in the near future. 3) The valve seals installed were of poor quality . Eric is changing them as well. Also, the seals that came with the kit are of poor quality. 4) Eric uses a special valve cut that has something to do with the valves being "back cut". The whole reason I took them there was to have the valves cut with his special cut that increases flow and brings up the volumetric efficiency. There will be an "after" flow test done as soon as they are complete to see what the difference is. Eric is the real deal. Several years ago I took a pair of D8OE smog heads I had ported to him, as well as a stock head. His testing showed that all of my work improved the flow at the top of the valve's lift, but did very little for the low-lift conditions, which is where the valve spends most of its time So he grabbed a stock valve, put a back-cut on it, and showed how the stock head now out-flowed my ported head at all but max lift. Anyway, I think you will be very happy with his work, and happy that you took the heads to him. At least you'll know that all the pieces will work together properly - which wasn't going to be the case w/o him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetesPonies Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 I took the heads to the guy known as "The Professor" (Eric Weingartner of Weingartner Racing). He ran a flow test as well as a pressure test to see what they would do. Here are the numbers the test produced: I am glad I took them to Eric for a few different reasons: 1) I wasnt sure if the springs the heads came with would work well with my cam. Turns out they are way too heavy to use with a flat tappet cam. Eric thought it would have wiped the lobes off. The kit I bought came with springs. So they will be used. 2) The valves are so long in these heads that they will need to be shimmed up considerably. I had no clue as to go about setting up the installation height. So the parts needed are being ordered and installed in the near future. 3) The valve seals installed were of poor quality . Eric is changing them as well. Also, the seals that came with the kit are of poor quality. 4) Eric uses a special valve cut that has something to do with the valves being "back cut". The whole reason I took them there was to have the valves cut with his special cut that increases flow and brings up the volumetric efficiency. There will be an "after" flow test done as soon as they are complete to see what the difference is. What heads are these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 What heads are these? He told me they are Ford Racing heads, although I don't know if they have a number or other designation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno2 Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 He told me they are Ford Racing heads, although I don't know if they have a number or other designation. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6049-X306/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Subscribed, Brandon At over 350# open it is a good thing you swapped springs with a 256 cam. It probably wouldn't have made it through the 20 min break in with flat lifters. Intake port volume seems a little large for your goal of a stump pulling small block. Maybe you would have been better off sticking with the Performer and filling the roof with Devcon? I'm sure your engine guy knows far more than I do, so I'll shut up now and enjoy the show. The AVS I have on my truck now is a 650 1826. It was gone through a few months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno2 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 Subscribed, Brandon At over 350# open it is a good thing you swapped springs with a 256 cam. It probably wouldn't have made it through the 20 min break in with flat lifters. Intake port volume seems a little large for your goal of a stump pulling small block. Maybe you would have been better off sticking with the Performer and filling the roof with Devcon? I'm sure your engine guy knows far more than I do, so I'll shut up now and enjoy the show. The AVS I have on my truck now is a 650 1826. It was gone through a few months ago. Explain that to me please Jim. I dont have an engine builder. I am winging it with tech support from the different manufacturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetesPonies Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Subscribed, Brandon At over 350# open it is a good thing you swapped springs with a 256 cam. It probably wouldn't have made it through the 20 min break in with flat lifters. Intake port volume seems a little large for your goal of a stump pulling small block. Maybe you would have been better off sticking with the Performer and filling the roof with Devcon? I'm sure your engine guy knows far more than I do, so I'll shut up now and enjoy the show. The AVS I have on my truck now is a 650 1826. It was gone through a few months ago. Explain that to me please Jim. I dont have an engine builder. I am winging it with tech support from the different manufacturers. Well they certainly are not flowing what they are advertised to do. However, different flow benches will show different flow levels. So the most important is what they are flowing going in and what they flow when you leave with them. If you want low end grunt, you need intake velocity. This gives you great mixture, which makes an efficient burn. This is power. To have great velocity at lower RPMs, you typically need small runners, small chambers, things that aid with an intake charge moving quickly. On the other end, when you increase the size, where the charge is moving, you enable it to slow down and still offer the same filling. By slowing down, the mixture isn't as good. You don't help atomization , plus you offer opportunities for the mixture to fall out of suspension. It's al about matching your parts with your goal in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Subscribed, Brandon At over 350# open it is a good thing you swapped springs with a 256 cam. It probably wouldn't have made it through the 20 min break in with flat lifters. Intake port volume seems a little large for your goal of a stump pulling small block. Maybe you would have been better off sticking with the Performer and filling the roof with Devcon? I'm sure your engine guy knows far more than I do, so I'll shut up now and enjoy the show. The AVS I have on my truck now is a 650 1826. It was gone through a few months ago. Explain that to me please Jim. I dont have an engine builder. I am winging it with tech support from the different manufacturers. Which part? Too much spring pressure for flat tappets or reducing intake port volume to keep velocity up at low rpms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Which part? Too much spring pressure for flat tappets or reducing intake port volume to keep velocity up at low rpms? Pete - Well said. Too many people want large and/or short runners, but they will kill torque at low RPM. A good example of that is the Cleveland engine, which was offered with both "2V" and "4V" heads and matching intake manifolds. The 2V's had reasonably-sized ports and the 4V's had huge ports. Engines with the 2V heads & manifolds had reasonable low-RPM torque, but engines with the 4V heads had little torque below 3000 RPM. However, from 3000 on up they rev'd like banshees. Jim - Probably both as Brandon is fighting a problem on his Bronco that may be a mismatch of heads and intake. So, I'm sure he would appreciate info on both spring pressures as well as the port volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Pete - Well said. Too many people want large and/or short runners, but they will kill torque at low RPM. A good example of that is the Cleveland engine, which was offered with both "2V" and "4V" heads and matching intake manifolds. The 2V's had reasonably-sized ports and the 4V's had huge ports. Engines with the 2V heads & manifolds had reasonable low-RPM torque, but engines with the 4V heads had little torque below 3000 RPM. However, from 3000 on up they rev'd like banshees. Jim - Probably both as Brandon is fighting a problem on his Bronco that may be a mismatch of heads and intake. So, I'm sure he would appreciate info on both spring pressures as well as the port volume. Well, you can see from the link that those heads are setup for rollers (and high rpm given the spring pressure) I would think 185-215 at whatever lift he is going to get with his cam and rocker ratio. Or on the low side if he is setting a low redline. Devcon is a metal filled epoxy. In his aluminum heads you'd use the aluminum version to reduce the port volume and keep velocity up. Typically filling the floor gives you a better approach angle at the back of the valve. But given that his ports are too high for the intake you would probably fill the top at the gasket and the floor of the port. Careful to keep the cross section near the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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