Pebcak Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 Don't forget that a bigger engine tends to make a cam "smaller". In other words, the XE256H on a 351 will have less lope and a lower RPM range than on a 302. And on a 408 it'll be even more mild. Also, Don/Pebcak is in Texas, just north of Forth Worth. So his "cold" isn't Cory's "cold". If it was me, I'd call Comp and ask them what they recommend. I say that because they have several different cam series for the 351W, as shown on this page under Hydraulic Flat Tappet. And, to top all that off Comp has the Thumpr cams, which aren't shown in that list. Again, I'd call Comp and tell them what you are wanting to do, Don. They'll ask all the right questions about vehicle, weight, usage, transmission, torque converter, gears, intake, exhaust, carburetion, compression ratio, etc. And they'll sort through a very complex issue and give you a recommendation. HOLY MOLY Y'ALL!!!!! I'm awake now!!! I've been reading, cross referencing, surfing and watching videos since 6:45 AM here at work! To summarize a little of what I'm understanding and reading is. Jim, Thank you for explaining everything in food! It helped me understand "lobe", "Full lift", "base circle", rocker arms and the whole process better. What an education this early in the morning!! When it comes to the EGR on my old intake. It's there but the hose is looped upon itself to not have a vacuum leak. It was that way when I got it. So my question is, "Do I even need it in the future?" and "Is it doing anything anyways?" That's why I'm thinking no EGR on the new intake. Cory, What can I say, I'm drooling.... That's a beautiful truck and engine bay! They guys here at work are jealous of how clean that truck is! The 256 might be a little more than I need because I'll will very rarely go that high in the RPM's. I think the 250 is more in my range for DD. Yes/No? Thank you for the suggestion for the spacer! My neighbor has one that he's giving me that's for the 1406 Edelbrock I have. Good to know I'm learning a little on my own. Gary, Thank You again for grabbing my collar as I was leaning into the rabbit hole drooling at all the pictures, videos and talk on the post. I'm coming to my senses and I'm going to take notes of what Cory and Jim added and call Comp to find out a reasonable selection. I'm not dismissing what anyone said and am taking it all in. Thank You so much guys! To All, When it came to the timing I've been told 4 degree by quite a few gear heads and mechanics here. Initially it was suggested to get this Comp Cam and then y'all we're also talking about the XE250-H. When comes to the fine details I start getting lost so I'll defer to people that know what they're talking about. Right now my follow up question and what I'm going to ask Comp also is "To do the cam and timing correctly, should I just get the whole kit so it's easier in the end or are the rebuilt (passenger) and new (drivers) header hardware acceptable?" I can't say "Thank You" enough guys! I'll post what Comp says to me when I call them sometime this week. Guess I better get to work. IT tickets are piling up here at the Plant. Network/Security never get a pass. It's always the networks fault that things aren't working right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Jim, Thank you for explaining everything in food! Ha! I like this. Cory, What can I say, I'm drooling.... That's a beautiful truck and engine bay! They guys here at work are jealous of how clean that truck is! The 256 might be a little more than I need because I'll will very rarely go that high in the RPM's. I think the 250 is more in my range for DD. Yes/No? I would agree on the 250. Everybody that installs one seems to be pretty darn happy with them. I can't say "Thank You" enough guys! I'll post what Comp says to me when I call them sometime this week. I'd be surprised if they didn't recommend the XE250H. Guess I better get to work. IT tickets are piling up here at the Plant. Network/Security never get a pass. It's always the networks fault that things aren't working right. I have a friend in IT, and says everything is PICNIC...."Problem In Chair, Not In Computer". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 HOLY MOLY Y'ALL!!!!! I'm awake now!!! I've been reading, cross referencing, surfing and watching videos since 6:45 AM here at work! To summarize a little of what I'm understanding and reading is. Jim, Thank you for explaining everything in food! It helped me understand "lobe", "Full lift", "base circle", rocker arms and the whole process better. What an education this early in the morning!! When it comes to the EGR on my old intake. It's there but the hose is looped upon itself to not have a vacuum leak. It was that way when I got it. So my question is, "Do I even need it in the future?" and "Is it doing anything anyways?" That's why I'm thinking no EGR on the new intake. Cory, What can I say, I'm drooling.... That's a beautiful truck and engine bay! They guys here at work are jealous of how clean that truck is! The 256 might be a little more than I need because I'll will very rarely go that high in the RPM's. I think the 250 is more in my range for DD. Yes/No? Thank you for the suggestion for the spacer! My neighbor has one that he's giving me that's for the 1406 Edelbrock I have. Good to know I'm learning a little on my own. Gary, Thank You again for grabbing my collar as I was leaning into the rabbit hole drooling at all the pictures, videos and talk on the post. I'm coming to my senses and I'm going to take notes of what Cory and Jim added and call Comp to find out a reasonable selection. I'm not dismissing what anyone said and am taking it all in. Thank You so much guys! To All, When it came to the timing I've been told 4 degree by quite a few gear heads and mechanics here. Initially it was suggested to get this Comp Cam and then y'all we're also talking about the XE250-H. When comes to the fine details I start getting lost so I'll defer to people that know what they're talking about. Right now my follow up question and what I'm going to ask Comp also is "To do the cam and timing correctly, should I just get the whole kit so it's easier in the end or are the rebuilt (passenger) and new (drivers) header hardware acceptable?" I can't say "Thank You" enough guys! I'll post what Comp says to me when I call them sometime this week. Guess I better get to work. IT tickets are piling up here at the Plant. Network/Security never get a pass. It's always the networks fault that things aren't working right. Don, You don't 'need' EGR at all. It allows you to run a little more advance while cruising, and a leaner mixture, without knock. This helps fuel mileage. What you say about how you drive I'm going to retract my recommendation for the RPM and the 256. I don't know how much retard Ford put in the 351 gears. Go 'straight up' like I recommend and you can't go wrong. -i DO know the factory retard on a 385 series is 8* at the crank, 4* at the cam. Tell me to shut up if I talk too much. But if you want more food analogies, or ever want to talk Chili, I'm all ears! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 HOLY MOLY Y'ALL!!!!! I'm awake now!!! I've been reading, cross referencing, surfing and watching videos since 6:45 AM here at work! To summarize a little of what I'm understanding and reading is. Jim, Thank you for explaining everything in food! It helped me understand "lobe", "Full lift", "base circle", rocker arms and the whole process better. What an education this early in the morning!! When it comes to the EGR on my old intake. It's there but the hose is looped upon itself to not have a vacuum leak. It was that way when I got it. So my question is, "Do I even need it in the future?" and "Is it doing anything anyways?" That's why I'm thinking no EGR on the new intake. Cory, What can I say, I'm drooling.... That's a beautiful truck and engine bay! They guys here at work are jealous of how clean that truck is! The 256 might be a little more than I need because I'll will very rarely go that high in the RPM's. I think the 250 is more in my range for DD. Yes/No? Thank you for the suggestion for the spacer! My neighbor has one that he's giving me that's for the 1406 Edelbrock I have. Good to know I'm learning a little on my own. Gary, Thank You again for grabbing my collar as I was leaning into the rabbit hole drooling at all the pictures, videos and talk on the post. I'm coming to my senses and I'm going to take notes of what Cory and Jim added and call Comp to find out a reasonable selection. I'm not dismissing what anyone said and am taking it all in. Thank You so much guys! To All, When it came to the timing I've been told 4 degree by quite a few gear heads and mechanics here. Initially it was suggested to get this Comp Cam and then y'all we're also talking about the XE250-H. When comes to the fine details I start getting lost so I'll defer to people that know what they're talking about. Right now my follow up question and what I'm going to ask Comp also is "To do the cam and timing correctly, should I just get the whole kit so it's easier in the end or are the rebuilt (passenger) and new (drivers) header hardware acceptable?" I can't say "Thank You" enough guys! I'll post what Comp says to me when I call them sometime this week. Guess I better get to work. IT tickets are piling up here at the Plant. Network/Security never get a pass. It's always the networks fault that things aren't working right. First, as one who spent many years in networking, I'm always amazed at how often it is thought to be the problem. Second, the 260H is a good cam as well. Here's a side-by-side look at the specs of the two cams. The 260's intake is advanced 5 degrees but has a bit less lift. However, the exhaust lobes have the same timing but with just a bit less lift on the 260. It'll be interesting to see what the tech says you should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebcak Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 Jim, Thank you for explaining everything in food! Ha! I like this. Cory, What can I say, I'm drooling.... That's a beautiful truck and engine bay! They guys here at work are jealous of how clean that truck is! The 256 might be a little more than I need because I'll will very rarely go that high in the RPM's. I think the 250 is more in my range for DD. Yes/No? I would agree on the 250. Everybody that installs one seems to be pretty darn happy with them. I can't say "Thank You" enough guys! I'll post what Comp says to me when I call them sometime this week. I'd be surprised if they didn't recommend the XE250H. Guess I better get to work. IT tickets are piling up here at the Plant. Network/Security never get a pass. It's always the networks fault that things aren't working right. I have a friend in IT, and says everything is PICNIC...."Problem In Chair, Not In Computer". We do PICNIC, ID 10 T (idiot) issues and Pebcak/Pebkac here. Just Sunday my work phone was being blown up for a Network outage. They we're freaking out because of a new robotic installation and after 4 hours they figured out it was their own terminations on their cabling. But it was "The Network" all along. Anywho.. Don't get me started... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebcak Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 Don, You don't 'need' EGR at all. It allows you to run a little more advance while cruising, and a leaner mixture, without knock. This helps fuel mileage. What you say about how you drive I'm going to retract my recommendation for the RPM and the 256. I don't know how much retard Ford put in the 351 gears. Go 'straight up' like I recommend and you can't go wrong. -i DO know the factory retard on a 385 series is 8* at the crank, 4* at the cam. Tell me to shut up if I talk too much. But if you want more food analogies, or ever want to talk Chili, I'm all ears! From what I've read about, the EGR seems a little more critical/a pain when not working on 87 or higher model trucks because of the dummy light, emissions and electronics. For fuel mileage there's a mixed reaction of how much it actually affects people. Since all of the emissions is already removed on mine, the EGR vacuum line is looped to itself and no electronics I'm thinking I don't need it then. With timing (retard) what people have said to me and my recent education, the consensus is my setup should be a retard of 4 degrees at the cam. There's a lot of material I found saying that 0 degree is the standard from the factory. People say 4 degree depending on stock cams, stock motor and/or Ford wanting to pass emissions in the 70's and 80's. I don't know how much of that is fact because, as we all know, "If it's on the internet it's true." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 From what I've read about, the EGR seems a little more critical/a pain when not working on 87 or higher model trucks because of the dummy light, emissions and electronics. For fuel mileage there's a mixed reaction of how much it actually affects people. Since all of the emissions is already removed on mine, the EGR vacuum line is looped to itself and no electronics I'm thinking I don't need it then. With timing (retard) what people have said to me and my recent education, the consensus is my setup should be a retard of 4 degrees at the cam. There's a lot of material I found saying that 0 degree is the standard from the factory. People say 4 degree depending on stock cams, stock motor and/or Ford wanting to pass emissions in the 70's and 80's. I don't know how much of that is fact because, as we all know, "If it's on the internet it's true." Don’t forget that if your engine originally had EGR then the ignition advance was set up for a lot of advance during cruise, which is when the EGR would have been “on”. So without EGR you’ll have too much advance and will probably have pinging. So you’ll want to modify the advance curve if you don’t have EGR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 From what I've read about, the EGR seems a little more critical/a pain when not working on 87 or higher model trucks because of the dummy light, emissions and electronics. For fuel mileage there's a mixed reaction of how much it actually affects people. Since all of the emissions is already removed on mine, the EGR vacuum line is looped to itself and no electronics I'm thinking I don't need it then. With timing (retard) what people have said to me and my recent education, the consensus is my setup should be a retard of 4 degrees at the cam. There's a lot of material I found saying that 0 degree is the standard from the factory. People say 4 degree depending on stock cams, stock motor and/or Ford wanting to pass emissions in the 70's and 80's. I don't know how much of that is fact because, as we all know, "If it's on the internet it's true." You need to distinguish between ignition timing and cam timing... Yeah, if you have no emissions inspection and no Cats, etc.... there's no need to keep an EGR manifold. (I think that's what I said) But EGR would allow you to have more ignition advance in cruise. ***"Look into the Crane adjustable vacuum advance sold for pre-emission FORD/MERCURY vehicles. You will need to tune your curve for the changes you're making. I can only speak for the 4/8 degree cam retard in 385 series trucks. I CAN say that with the change to EFI in 1988, 385 series trucks got a straight up roller timing set. So for us guys a cheap upgrade is '88 & up stock chain set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Don’t forget that if your engine originally had EGR then the ignition advance was set up for a lot of advance during cruise, which is when the EGR would have been “on”. So without EGR you’ll have too much advance and will probably have pinging. So you’ll want to modify the advance curve if you don’t have EGR. Gaaah This is what I get for putting my phone on do not disturb... Gary beats me to the punch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Gaaah This is what I get for putting my phone on do not disturb... Gary beats me to the punch. It isn't a race, although there may be some friendly competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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