Don's (Pebcak) 351 upgrade Project

[Gary Lewis]

First things first, Sorry to all for being Dark on here for over a year. Life, Covid and "Adulting" has gotten in the way.

Secondly, I've been in the early stages of starting the work on the Beast again.

About a month ago I went to a shop to see about bringing in the short block to get it checked and rebuilt. The shop was going to get me a quote sheet for all the work I could have done to fit my budget. A month later waiting they stopped answering emails and calls. After that I asked around and a coworker pointed me in the direction of some local guys. So, tomorrow I’m visiting that local shop. They mainly deals with carbureted drag/race engines. Hopefully I’ll be getting some good information from them!

Some good news is that I have a line on a “running“ 351W with EFI (that I can see) that is being sold for $300. I’m meeting the guy today around 5 PM TX time. According to him, “The guy I bought it from refreshed it and the engine has around 60K on it.” “Everything works but my boss is selling a fully rebuild and higher HP 351W to me that I’m putting in this weekend.” I’ll take a gander at it and will probably get it for parts or if I did crack my block way back when.

A big Thank You to Gary for letting me ask him some questions on the fly and his opinion while I was driving. Deals like this don’t pop up often and I wanted to get a second opinion before getting home from work.

Here is the ONLY photo I have for it.

There will be updates and more to come soon.

I might even look into the pros and cons of EFI. I don't know yet.

Life has a habit of taking precedence over trucks, and family certain comes higher on the list than trucks. No prob.

As for helping, happy to do so. Hope the engine turns out to be everything you want. 👍

[ArdWrknTrk]

First things first, Sorry to all for being Dark on here for over a year. Life, Covid and "Adulting" has gotten in the way.

Secondly, I've been in the early stages of starting the work on the Beast again.

About a month ago I went to a shop to see about bringing in the short block to get it checked and rebuilt. The shop was going to get me a quote sheet for all the work I could have done to fit my budget. A month later waiting they stopped answering emails and calls. After that I asked around and a coworker pointed me in the direction of some local guys. So, tomorrow I’m visiting that local shop. They mainly deals with carbureted drag/race engines. Hopefully I’ll be getting some good information from them!

Some good news is that I have a line on a “running“ 351W with EFI (that I can see) that is being sold for $300. I’m meeting the guy today around 5 PM TX time. According to him, “The guy I bought it from refreshed it and the engine has around 60K on it.” “Everything works but my boss is selling a fully rebuild and higher HP 351W to me that I’m putting in this weekend.” I’ll take a gander at it and will probably get it for parts or if I did crack my block way back when.

A big Thank You to Gary for letting me ask him some questions on the fly and his opinion while I was driving. Deals like this don’t pop up often and I wanted to get a second opinion before getting home from work.

Here is the ONLY photo I have for it.

There will be updates and more to come soon.

I might even look into the pros and cons of EFI. I don't know yet.

Thanks for the update, Don.

We all understand that sometimes we need to step back and prioritize life.

Glad to hear everything's ok.

[Pebcak]

First things first, Sorry to all for being Dark on here for over a year. Life, Covid and "Adulting" has gotten in the way.

Secondly, I've been in the early stages of starting the work on the Beast again.

About a month ago I went to a shop to see about bringing in the short block to get it checked and rebuilt. The shop was going to get me a quote sheet for all the work I could have done to fit my budget. A month later waiting they stopped answering emails and calls. After that I asked around and a coworker pointed me in the direction of some local guys. So, tomorrow I’m visiting that local shop. They mainly deals with carbureted drag/race engines. Hopefully I’ll be getting some good information from them!

Some good news is that I have a line on a “running“ 351W with EFI (that I can see) that is being sold for $300. I’m meeting the guy today around 5 PM TX time. According to him, “The guy I bought it from refreshed it and the engine has around 60K on it.” “Everything works but my boss is selling a fully rebuild and higher HP 351W to me that I’m putting in this weekend.” I’ll take a gander at it and will probably get it for parts or if I did crack my block way back when.

A big Thank You to Gary for letting me ask him some questions on the fly and his opinion while I was driving. Deals like this don’t pop up often and I wanted to get a second opinion before getting home from work.

Here is the ONLY photo I have for it.

There will be updates and more to come soon.

I might even look into the pros and cons of EFI. I don't know yet.

Went to see the engine and I was so excited that I verified that it was a 351W but..... It's in a 1992 F250..... So thankfully it was only 20 mins from the house so no big deal. Plus it was pretty "used" so I wouldn't have gotten it anyways. If there is ever a next time I'll make sure that it's a 80's F150...

Tomorrow afternoon I'm going to the engine shop close to me to talk to the owner face to face. I called and he already knew of me because my coworker talked to him. Hopefully I'll have a price guesstimate and be able to get it into the shop soon.

[Gary Lewis]

Went to see the engine and I was so excited that I verified that it was a 351W but..... It's in a 1992 F250..... So thankfully it was only 20 mins from the house so no big deal. Plus it was pretty "used" so I wouldn't have gotten it anyways. If there is ever a next time I'll make sure that it's a 80's F150...

Tomorrow afternoon I'm going to the engine shop close to me to talk to the owner face to face. I called and he already knew of me because my coworker talked to him. Hopefully I'll have a price guesstimate and be able to get it into the shop soon.

If it doesn't run well it isn't worth the money nor the effort. I hope the meeting tomorrow works out for you.

[Pebcak]

Went to see the engine and I was so excited that I verified that it was a 351W but..... It's in a 1992 F250..... So thankfully it was only 20 mins from the house so no big deal. Plus it was pretty "used" so I wouldn't have gotten it anyways. If there is ever a next time I'll make sure that it's a 80's F150...

Tomorrow afternoon I'm going to the engine shop close to me to talk to the owner face to face. I called and he already knew of me because my coworker talked to him. Hopefully I'll have a price guesstimate and be able to get it into the shop soon.

I went to the second engine shop last weekend and the gentleman was very honest and said that they deal only with high hp engines there. Most of his rebuilds are Jasper's. He had a 700 HP truck and Aretha Franklin's Cadillac in his shop. It was cool to see each but nothing for me. Today/tomorrow I'm calling the third shop to find out pricing and how far out they are.

Just finished chatting with a Comp Cams technician and he suggested that I get the Xtreme Energy 218/224 Hydraulic Flat Cam for Ford 351W for my rebuild. He said that the 260H and XE250H "are a bit too small.."

He typed all of this..

- Stock heads are 9:1 compression

- 35-283-3...1300-5600 RPMs

- 218/224 duration @ .50" and .493/.500 lift with a LS of 100

He also said the Eledbrock Performer intake 2181 will work well with the cam he selected.

I wanted to get a 2nd, 3rd, etc.... opinions if this is sounding right before I pull the trigger on the Cam kit and the intake. What do y'all think?

Hopefully this weekend I'll have some time to take the Torque converter and flex plate off the engine. Then put it on the stand and start getting it all ready to take to "a" shop.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or ideas!

 

[Gary Lewis]

I went to the second engine shop last weekend and the gentleman was very honest and said that they deal only with high hp engines there. Most of his rebuilds are Jasper's. He had a 700 HP truck and Aretha Franklin's Cadillac in his shop. It was cool to see each but nothing for me. Today/tomorrow I'm calling the third shop to find out pricing and how far out they are.

Just finished chatting with a Comp Cams technician and he suggested that I get the Xtreme Energy 218/224 Hydraulic Flat Cam for Ford 351W for my rebuild. He said that the 260H and XE250H "are a bit too small.."

He typed all of this..

- Stock heads are 9:1 compression

- 35-283-3...1300-5600 RPMs

- 218/224 duration @ .50" and .493/.500 lift with a LS of 100

He also said the Eledbrock Performer intake 2181 will work well with the cam he selected.

I wanted to get a 2nd, 3rd, etc.... opinions if this is sounding right before I pull the trigger on the Cam kit and the intake. What do y'all think?

Hopefully this weekend I'll have some time to take the Torque converter and flex plate off the engine. Then put it on the stand and start getting it all ready to take to "a" shop.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or ideas!

Welcome to why I bought basically a crate engine for Big Blue.

As for the cam, I don't know that I agree with the guy. First, he's wrong on the compression ratio. Ford said the '86 351HO had 8.3:1 compression. But, if I were you, I'd up that to the 9:1 he mentioned. Or go with aluminum heads and 10:1.

And, I don't know that I'd want my torque coming in at 1300. That's not bad, but I usually shoot for more like 1000.

Anyway, let's see what the others say as they know more about this than I do.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I went to the second engine shop last weekend and the gentleman was very honest and said that they deal only with high hp engines there. Most of his rebuilds are Jasper's. He had a 700 HP truck and Aretha Franklin's Cadillac in his shop. It was cool to see each but nothing for me. Today/tomorrow I'm calling the third shop to find out pricing and how far out they are.

Just finished chatting with a Comp Cams technician and he suggested that I get the Xtreme Energy 218/224 Hydraulic Flat Cam for Ford 351W for my rebuild. He said that the 260H and XE250H "are a bit too small.."

He typed all of this..

- Stock heads are 9:1 compression

- 35-283-3...1300-5600 RPMs

- 218/224 duration @ .50" and .493/.500 lift with a LS of 100

He also said the Eledbrock Performer intake 2181 will work well with the cam he selected.

I wanted to get a 2nd, 3rd, etc.... opinions if this is sounding right before I pull the trigger on the Cam kit and the intake. What do y'all think?

Hopefully this weekend I'll have some time to take the Torque converter and flex plate off the engine. Then put it on the stand and start getting it all ready to take to "a" shop.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or ideas!

I think it really depends on your realistic purpose for this truck, Don.

Maybe he auto corrected from "Stock heads *at 9:1"?

That could be pistons -or- decking the block, but I definitely wouldn't want to build an engine at less compression than that.

Cam range depends on converter stall, but I agree with Gary, if you're using the stock converter you might want to advance that cam or choose another.

Aluminum heads are a spendy option and typically everything needs to be set up.

Spring seat heights, rocker heights, port match, etc....

[Pebcak]

I think it really depends on your realistic purpose for this truck, Don.

Maybe he auto corrected from "Stock heads *at 9:1"?

That could be pistons -or- decking the block, but I definitely wouldn't want to build an engine at less compression than that.

Cam range depends on converter stall, but I agree with Gary, if you're using the stock converter you might want to advance that cam or choose another.

Aluminum heads are a spendy option and typically everything needs to be set up.

Spring seat heights, rocker heights, port match, etc....

My main purpose is a daily to and from work 50-60 mi a day, 5 days a week. Add in a little bit of fun playing with it here and there with my son.

I got with Comp Cams again and talked to another techinican. He agrees if I'm at the 8.3:1 I could use the XE250H. "It will work better with the lower compression and won't feel too sluggish." But, if it's 9:1 then the 35-283-3 cam would work because I "can run a bigger cam with more compression."

So, I'd guess that I should go with the XE250H then? That way it won't "feel too sluggish?" Or with the minuscule differences (at least to me) would it really make a difference which I chose with what I'm wanting to do?

My son surprised me with the heads for Fathers Day a couple years ago. My wife said he paid a good penny to get one head rebuilt and the other replaced because I cracked it. Call me weird, but the sentimental value of using those heads means more to me than getting new ones.

I'm hoping to call the engine shop today as long as no "fires" pop up here at work to take care of.

[ArdWrknTrk]

My main purpose is a daily to and from work 50-60 mi a day, 5 days a week. Add in a little bit of fun playing with it here and there with my son.

I got with Comp Cams again and talked to another techinican. He agrees if I'm at the 8.3:1 I could use the XE250H. "It will work better with the lower compression and won't feel too sluggish." But, if it's 9:1 then the 35-283-3 cam would work because I "can run a bigger cam with more compression."

So, I'd guess that I should go with the XE250H then? That way it won't "feel too sluggish?" Or with the minuscule differences (at least to me) would it really make a difference which I chose with what I'm wanting to do?

My son surprised me with the heads for Fathers Day a couple years ago. My wife said he paid a good penny to get one head rebuilt and the other replaced because I cracked it. Call me weird, but the sentimental value of using those heads means more to me than getting new ones.

I'm hoping to call the engine shop today as long as no "fires" pop up here at work to take care of.

I agree, your son really wanted to make a contribution and it wouldn't be right if your engine didn't wear those heads.

But you haven't even tanked and inspected the short block.

You have options to get to 9:1 (or more!)

Taller pistons

Deck the block

Stroker crank

Pick your poison. 😈

[Gary Lewis]

I agree, your son really wanted to make a contribution and it wouldn't be right if your engine didn't wear those heads.

But you haven't even tanked and inspected the short block.

You have options to get to 9:1 (or more!)

Taller pistons

Deck the block

Stroker crank

Pick your poison. 😈

Yes, I agree - use those heads. But like Jim said, even better pistons can get you whatever compression you want. And you have to have new pistons, so get some that put you in the 9+ range.

There's a balance between compression and cam. Too little compression and too much cam is a bad combo. But as you go up in compression you can use more and more cam. In fact, there's a difference between static and dynamic compression ratio, with static being what is calculated using bore, stroke, and piston & head recesses.

But dynamic is closer to actual as the cam leaves the valves open during part of the compression stroke and you lose some compression. And the longer the duration of the cam the more is lost. So some people go up closer to 10:1 and dial in more cam to kill some of it.