Heat Shield For Starter?

[ArdWrknTrk]

It doesn't require it (use a jumper and no difference to the truck wiring at all) but it is an option and no doubt easier on the fender solenoid. Either way, I still wouldn't consider this little wiring consideration to be a deal breaker. That said, everyone will need to decide that for themselves regarding what they feel comfortable with in an emergency situation.

Be careful of using Motorcraft parts??? Not saying they are what they used to be but (knock on wood) they've always served me better than house brand. I am intrigued by what you are referring to - care to elaborate?

My life schedule doesn't lend itself well to keeping up with forums as much as I'd like but sounds like I missed some interesting information.

Every one I've ever installed had a dramatic warning against doing exactly that.

If the starter hangs, and gets overdriven, it will self energize.

But hey? What could happen?

Don't worry, it's sarcasm.

Cory just posted a picture of his new (Ford) Motorcraft coolant sender.

I asked him which number he asked for at the Parts Window.

Sorry I didnt make this post a half hour ago.

 

[kramttocs]

My life schedule doesn't lend itself well to keeping up with forums as much as I'd like but sounds like I missed some interesting information.

No...no you didn't.

Haha so I guess I can keep installing motorcraft parts in blissful ignorance?

[Dorsai]

Haha so I guess I can keep installing motorcraft parts in blissful ignorance?

That's the best kind of ignorance there is!

[kramttocs]

Every one I've ever installed had a dramatic warning against doing exactly that.

If the starter hangs, and gets overdriven, it will self energize.

But hey? What could happen?

Don't worry, it's sarcasm.

Cory just posted a picture of his new (Ford) Motorcraft coolant sender.

I asked him which number he asked for at the Parts Window.

Sorry I didnt make this post a half hour ago.

You got me curious so I just ran out to the shop to look at the instructions that came with the powermaster unit to make sure I wasn't just making stuff up.

They actually say the jumper between the starter posts is an option ("not included but can be made from a piece of 12awg wire and two ring terminals" [their wording]).

I don't doubt the warnings on the ones you have installed though. This unit's instructions are the only I've ever read so didn't really think about one option being safer than the other.

 

[kramttocs]

Haha so I guess I can keep installing motorcraft parts in blissful ignorance?

That's the best kind of ignorance there is!

A complete rabbit trail and way off topic, but your comment got me thinking just what other kinds of ignorance there are

Stumbled across a website that listed 5 different kinds of ignorance. Who knew? I dare say I feel a little less ignorant about ignorance now.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

A complete rabbit trail and way off topic, but your comment got me thinking just what other kinds of ignorance there are

Stumbled across a website that listed 5 different kinds of ignorance. Who knew? I dare say I feel a little less ignorant about ignorance now.

Ok, I'll bite.

I'm ignorant of anything more than blissful, willful, downright and sheer.

Just what other kind of ignorance is there?

[85lebaront2]

You got me curious so I just ran out to the shop to look at the instructions that came with the powermaster unit to make sure I wasn't just making stuff up.

They actually say the jumper between the starter posts is an option ("not included but can be made from a piece of 12awg wire and two ring terminals" [their wording]).

I don't doubt the warnings on the ones you have installed though. This unit's instructions are the only I've ever read so didn't really think about one option being safer than the other.

The big problem with the original starter is it's extremely high current draw, I don't remember exactly how high but it's way up there. The original Ford relays on the fender were designed to handle the current draw without much problem, where the problem today lies is that most sources are now getting the relays made in China. The copper alloy the Chinese ones use is apparently very soft, and after a few times of making and breaking the connection, they are extremely prone to welding the contacts together resulting in the starter continuing to run even after the key is released. If you have a truck with the DS-II system, turning the key off when this happens will not kill the engine, the resistor bypass circuits (until 1985 and maybe after) will continue to power the ignition.

The solenoid shift starter whether PMGR or the older Delco style that was on the car 429/460 engines in the late 60s and 70s, still can draw a ton of current if you jumper the positive stud on the solenoid to the S terminal. This is how the lower line cars (Ford, Mercury) were usually wired. The Lincoln Mark III had a different system, and was wired more like a GM car (Start wire from switch to neutral safety to S terminal on starter). Most Ford ignition switches and associated wiring can't handle the current draw of the solenoid and will burn up.

A standard Bosch relay can handle the PMGR solenoid with no problem, that is what most later Fords that were factory built with a PMGR starter use underhood for the starter.

[ArdWrknTrk]

The big problem with the original starter is it's extremely high current draw, I don't remember exactly how high but it's way up there. The original Ford relays on the fender were designed to handle the current draw without much problem, where the problem today lies is that most sources are now getting the relays made in China. The copper alloy the Chinese ones use is apparently very soft, and after a few times of making and breaking the connection, they are extremely prone to welding the contacts together resulting in the starter continuing to run even after the key is released. If you have a truck with the DS-II system, turning the key off when this happens will not kill the engine, the resistor bypass circuits (until 1985 and maybe after) will continue to power the ignition.

The solenoid shift starter whether PMGR or the older Delco style that was on the car 429/460 engines in the late 60s and 70s, still can draw a ton of current if you jumper the positive stud on the solenoid to the S terminal. This is how the lower line cars (Ford, Mercury) were usually wired. The Lincoln Mark III had a different system, and was wired more like a GM car (Start wire from switch to neutral safety to S terminal on starter). Most Ford ignition switches and associated wiring can't handle the current draw of the solenoid and will burn up.

A standard Bosch relay can handle the PMGR solenoid with no problem, that is what most later Fords that were factory built with a PMGR starter use underhood for the starter.

Bill,

Chris's relay was copper plated iron. (Core & contact in one piece)

I had posted the draw of my PMGR on FTE.

For the solenoid, 40A inrush to pull, and 13A to hold. (so, yes most cube relays can do it)

I forget exactly what the motor draw was

Maybe I can find the sheet somewhere.

Then I could show the warning.

[kramttocs]

Ok, I'll bite.

I'm ignorant of anything more than blissful, willful, downright and sheer.

Just what other kind of ignorance is there?

This site (I won't list a link as I don't exactly know what the site is for) listed:

Innocent, willful, arrogant, domain, and enlightened.

I think I prefer your four though :)

[kramttocs]

The big problem with the original starter is it's extremely high current draw, I don't remember exactly how high but it's way up there. The original Ford relays on the fender were designed to handle the current draw without much problem, where the problem today lies is that most sources are now getting the relays made in China. The copper alloy the Chinese ones use is apparently very soft, and after a few times of making and breaking the connection, they are extremely prone to welding the contacts together resulting in the starter continuing to run even after the key is released. If you have a truck with the DS-II system, turning the key off when this happens will not kill the engine, the resistor bypass circuits (until 1985 and maybe after) will continue to power the ignition.

The solenoid shift starter whether PMGR or the older Delco style that was on the car 429/460 engines in the late 60s and 70s, still can draw a ton of current if you jumper the positive stud on the solenoid to the S terminal. This is how the lower line cars (Ford, Mercury) were usually wired. The Lincoln Mark III had a different system, and was wired more like a GM car (Start wire from switch to neutral safety to S terminal on starter). Most Ford ignition switches and associated wiring can't handle the current draw of the solenoid and will burn up.

A standard Bosch relay can handle the PMGR solenoid with no problem, that is what most later Fords that were factory built with a PMGR starter use underhood for the starter.

My 1980 with the stock starter on the 400 had that problem intermittently (starter solenoid would get stuck until I pulled the power or hit the solenoid hard enough) so just last week I swapped the junky one out with a motorcraft unit (possibly just a little less junky ).

I think we are on the same page that swapping to a pmgr setup is an improvement. My whole point was just that whether you swap to a Precision pmgr, Powermaster, or stay with stock the roadside issue wouldn't be significant.