Dorsai Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 A few weeks ago I was coming out of Lowe's...I got into the truck, tried to start it, and only got a 'RRRrrr' for my trouble as the starter tried and failed to crank the truck. So I popped the hood, looked around, and determined that the negative battery cable was a little loose on the battery terminal. I tightened it up the best I could, got back in, and the truck started right up and I was on my way home. It was the battery cable, right? Well, that's what I thought...so I got a replacement from NAPA, ensured my ground point was clean (my factory original cable is long gone, so I have a cable from the battery to the ground point on the frame, and then a second cable from there to the starter motor bolt), and swapped it in. Easy peasy. Until yesterday...I got into the truck, tried to start it, and 'RRRrrr'. Clearly the cable wasn't the problem...so I went into the house, got my meter, put it on the battery and read 12.4v. No problem there...got back in the truck and it started right up (note that at this point I hadn't touched or wiggled anything, other than to touch the meter to the battery terminals). Put the meter on the battery while the truck was running, 14.2v. So my charging system seems OK. The cable from the positive battery terminal to the starter relay on the fender is tight and relatively new. I'm going to check the cable from the ground point to the starter bolt, and from the solenoid to the starter, but I'll be surprised if either of them are the culprit; my wiring is overall in pretty good shape. If the wiring isn't the problem, am I looking at a starter issue? Can a starter (or starter solenoid) fail in such a way that it'll occasionally behave as though the battery is drained, but five minutes later start without problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 The starter relay (solenoids move things, not make a connection) can get pitted from arcing internally. If the contacts wind up in a place where the arced surface is touching point to point it can pass some current, but not enough current. I think Chris posted pictures of one cut open on FTE, when I bisected a heater core to show there was no direction to flow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorsai Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 The starter relay (solenoids move things, not make a connection) can get pitted from arcing internally. If the contacts wind up in a place where the arced surface is touching point to point it can pass some current, but not enough current. I think Chris posted pictures of one cut open on FTE, when I bisected a heater core to show there was no direction to flow Just to be clear, we're talking about the thing on the fender and not the thing on the starter, correct? I grew up calling the thing on the fender a solenoid, but yes, it's a relay. Assuming we're talking about the relay on the fender, can it fail in such a way that it occasionally doesn't pass enough current, but 98% of the time works perfectly? And if so, where can I buy a good replacement? I keep hearing about crappy Chinese ones that fail regularly, I'd happily pay more for a good solid replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpin Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 The starter relay (solenoids move things, not make a connection) can get pitted from arcing internally. If the contacts wind up in a place where the arced surface is touching point to point it can pass some current, but not enough current. I think Chris posted pictures of one cut open on FTE, when I bisected a heater core to show there was no direction to flow Warm starting issues can be your timing advanced too far. Mine did that when I got it, it was at 22° BTDC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 The starter relay (solenoids move things, not make a connection) can get pitted from arcing internally. If the contacts wind up in a place where the arced surface is touching point to point it can pass some current, but not enough current. I think Chris posted pictures of one cut open on FTE, when I bisected a heater core to show there was no direction to flow Just to be clear, we're talking about the thing on the fender and not the thing on the starter, correct? I grew up calling the thing on the fender a solenoid, but yes, it's a relay. Assuming we're talking about the relay on the fender, can it fail in such a way that it occasionally doesn't pass enough current, but 98% of the time works perfectly? And if so, where can I buy a good replacement? I keep hearing about crappy Chinese ones that fail regularly, I'd happily pay more for a good solid replacement. I just told you how, and where to see pictures.. Even 'the best' names like Prestolite and Cole-Hersee are made 'over there' now. Check the huge variety at Texas industrial Electric: http://www.texasindustrialelectric.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorsai Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 I just told you how, and where to see pictures.. That's...super helpful. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I just told you how, and where to see pictures.. That's...super helpful. Thank you. Sorry Matthew. I'm on my phone and trying to wrap up a day that had a start 'before 6:00' Give me a chance to get back and cool off, I'll go looking for Chris's post for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorsai Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 Sorry Matthew. I'm on my phone and trying to wrap up a day that had a start 'before 6:00' Give me a chance to get back and cool off, I'll go looking for Chris's post for you. Lol, don’t worry about it - I don’t need a photo, the relay is right there in my truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Lol, don’t worry about it - I don’t need a photo, the relay is right there in my truck. Do you have X-Ray vision, 😵 or are you going to cut yours open like Chris, so you can see how badly the contacts are pitted? 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorsai Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 Do you have X-Ray vision, 😵 or are you going to cut yours open like Chris, so you can see how badly the contacts are pitted? 😉 That's actually not a bad idea...I hadn't considered it, but why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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