Conical Lug nuts and AR Outlaw 2s

[Bulletproof250]

OK so I've done some research on the site and I found the listing that Gary has kindly referred to as confusing:

this chart also brings me to question if my F250 is a F250 HD? After all, It DOES have LH lugs on one side of the rear axle.

Now It started when I was given an old set of American Racing Outlaw 2's, off of 1989 Centurion. I'm pretty sure that they'll fit. Although, when I looked at the lug holes and noticed there is no taper for conical seating Lug nuts, I questioned what special fasteners American Racing maybe trying to have me purchase. A look at the AR website got me even more confused as they don't even show a listing for Outlaw 2s for anything for than the E250 Van and the F150 of the 1984 vintage.

Can anyone help direct me to what piece of the puzzle that I might be missing here, I have confirmed the lugs on my truck are definitely conical seat.

 

[salans7]

According to that listing, my 1986 F250 LD Semi-Floating Sterling Axle should have 1/2-20 lug studs but it definitely has 9/16-18 lug studs. Definitely confusing.

If there is no taper, that makes me wonder if the lug holes weren't drilled out in a past life. Maybe the wheels aren't 8x6.5 (8x165.1) and are some other size? Check the back of the wheel, the lug pattern may be cast into the wheel somewhere.

[Bulletproof250]

According to that listing, my 1986 F250 LD Semi-Floating Sterling Axle should have 1/2-20 lug studs but it definitely has 9/16-18 lug studs. Definitely confusing.

If there is no taper, that makes me wonder if the lug holes weren't drilled out in a past life. Maybe the wheels aren't 8x6.5 (8x165.1) and are some other size? Check the back of the wheel, the lug pattern may be cast into the wheel somewhere.

Thanks Shuan,

I'll check it our and see what I find. I did find some Lugs on Summit that are 0.74 diameter shanks that fit through the lug holes and seat with flat washers and they make them in LH thread too, so that's promising.

[grumpin]

Thanks Shuan,

I'll check it our and see what I find. I did find some Lugs on Summit that are 0.74 diameter shanks that fit through the lug holes and seat with flat washers and they make them in LH thread too, so that's promising.

What’s the GVWR on the door sticker?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Tapered nuts are for 'lug centric' wheels (like stock steelies)

Flat nuts are for 'hub centric' wheels.

Which obviously fit tight and center onto the hub.

There may be some odd wheels that have flat counterbores that take a very specific OD lug nut.

But, man, I wouldn't want to try and get those off after a year of mud or salt.

[85lebaront2]

Tapered nuts are for 'lug centric' wheels (like stock steelies)

Flat nuts are for 'hub centric' wheels.

Which obviously fit tight and center onto the hub.

There may be some odd wheels that have flat counterbores that take a very specific OD lug nut.

But, man, I wouldn't want to try and get those off after a year of mud or salt.

My dually and I suspect Jim's F250 use the floating washer design nuts but may take the conical nuts. I have seen both styles on the Sterling and Dana HD 250s. My best friend has a 1995 F350 dually and it has the hub centric wheels and uses a 1 1/16 hex floating washer nuts. His 2003 E250 has the 1 1/6 conical nuts which can be a royal PITA to get loose as the cone seems to "pinch" at the inner end.

Wheel material does not seem to be the reason for the difference, Darth came with all steel hub centric wheels and the floating washer nuts, the wheels also have pins on the bolt circle area as do the hubs, both front and rear. On the rear, this forces the tire valves to be 180° apart. The Ford Alcoa wheels do the same, although I believe the front wheels do not have the pin as they are location specific, front being made with a different offset than the rears due to the thickness difference between steel and aluminum wheels.

Even here where we don't get anywhere near the road salt that is used up North, the front ones can be a PITA to get loose from the hubs.

[ArdWrknTrk]

My dually and I suspect Jim's F250 use the floating washer design nuts but may take the conical nuts. I have seen both styles on the Sterling and Dana HD 250s. My best friend has a 1995 F350 dually and it has the hub centric wheels and uses a 1 1/16 hex floating washer nuts. His 2003 E250 has the 1 1/6 conical nuts which can be a royal PITA to get loose as the cone seems to "pinch" at the inner end.

Wheel material does not seem to be the reason for the difference, Darth came with all steel hub centric wheels and the floating washer nuts, the wheels also have pins on the bolt circle area as do the hubs, both front and rear. On the rear, this forces the tire valves to be 180° apart. The Ford Alcoa wheels do the same, although I believe the front wheels do not have the pin as they are location specific, front being made with a different offset than the rears due to the thickness difference between steel and aluminum wheels.

Even here where we don't get anywhere near the road salt that is used up North, the front ones can be a PITA to get loose from the hubs.

Bill,

I don't have a dually, so I don't have a use for locating pins.

These keep inner and outer 'clocked'

I have steelies and type 3 dog dish hub caps.

I did buy NOS Ford conical lug nuts from U-Haul's eBay store.

They were correct, something under a buck each + $4.99 shipping.

[Bulletproof250]

Bill,

I don't have a dually, so I don't have a use for locating pins.

These keep inner and outer 'clocked'

I have steelies and type 3 dog dish hub caps.

I did buy NOS Ford conical lug nuts from U-Haul's eBay store.

They were correct, something under a buck each + $4.99 shipping.

My buddy that i got the wheels from was able to dig up 16 of the Lug Nuts, WITH washers! So I've got 1 pair of wheels ready, With these Lug nuts I've found the dimensions for the others the only ones that I can find are Made by Gorilla and approximately $4/Nut+washer. AR was no Help I've seen no email for such an easy request, I would have imagined they would have a part number handy, oh well.

[ArdWrknTrk]

My buddy that i got the wheels from was able to dig up 16 of the Lug Nuts, WITH washers! So I've got 1 pair of wheels ready, With these Lug nuts I've found the dimensions for the others the only ones that I can find are Made by Gorilla and approximately $4/Nut+washer. AR was no Help I've seen no email for such an easy request, I would have imagined they would have a part number handy, oh well.

Well, you're halfway there!

$64 worth of lug nuts though..,.

[FoxFord33]

Tapered nuts are for 'lug centric' wheels (like stock steelies)

Flat nuts are for 'hub centric' wheels.

Which obviously fit tight and center onto the hub.

There may be some odd wheels that have flat counterbores that take a very specific OD lug nut.

But, man, I wouldn't want to try and get those off after a year of mud or salt.

Tire shop is my current job.

The cone-seats are most common, but there are the shanks with washers, and they usually still have cones on the lug nuts for use with a steel spare wheel. (Also, Honda has a ball seat that is really the best, but I digress...) If your wheels have no chamfer to accommodate the cone seats, then you really need the washer and shank type. There ought to be a less expensive one out there, but they are usually used on Toyota nowadays. Maybe the Toyota ones can fit? Is the thread pattern Metric or Merican? If Metric, maybe a Toyota style can be found for cheaper? I don't know, but maybe some info to search for you...

Edit: I realized that if your truck has its original parts, it will definitely be Merican (SAE) sizing, so probably no dice on the Toyota stuff... and especially Left Hand Thread...