The FORD Lounge

[Danny G]

Yes, he's had some problems. But I, like you, want him to succeed. He's doing things that will transform the way we live in very good ways.

And while I don't think the truck is going to cut it for what I do, we'll never turn the corner on electric vehicles unless someone makes them and lots of people buy them.

Just look at battery-powered tools. Ten years ago they were toys. But today they are serious tools. And I think electric vehicles will get there. But, there are lots of things that need to be worked out before they replace everything.

Electric is the future, it will get there, the problem is currently you are just trading one form of pollution for another. Until green energy keeps up with electrical demand they can tell themselves they are saving the environment.

Actually, I read an article that said all these people dumping there cars for electric to be more environmentally friendly were actually hurting the environment, that the it was more efficient, and more environmentally friendly to buy an older vehicle and repair it due to the pollution from scrapping and new manufacturing and the supply system of new vehicles.

[Danny G]

You know it! I've got an exam due on Monday, and I need to finish my capstone project (analyzing pitches for an MLB team, it's really kind of interesting) by Dec 2. Then a final on Dec 12, and I can graduate on Dec 13.

Oh man I feel you on that, I have a derivative calculus test coming up and a research paper as well, and get to work the weekend in between lol.

[Danny G]

Gary, you just hit the head on the nail. Here on Virginia's appendix there is one Tesla running around. My concern is what you referenced, charging stations. The Centre at Salisbury has a row in one of the back corners, problem is, that is 75 miles one way from me. The other direction, to Virginia Beach, roughly 60 miles to VB, but 22 miles of it is the CBBT so if an electric vehicle became discharged there it would need to be towed to a charging station.

Jim, power generation, we have a load of solar "farms" here, put up by Dominion Energy (who does not serve us!) and apparently Amazon buys their entire output. These basically take up what used to be farmland, much of which the produce from was shipped up to New England. So, for clean electricity you will ultimately pay higher food prices do to reduced supply. Wind turbines, sore subject, they want to stick a bunch of them off-shore. Not only is the Navy against it so is the tourist industry in VB. Look at the cost in energy to build one, maintain it through it's (relatively) short life span and then either replace it or scrap it. Not every area has (a) good prevailing winds (b) open areas to site one or more and © how many birds are killed by them?

Power, here ours comes down form Maryland's Eastern Shore, most likely from a fossil fuel plant, Dominion Energy operates two of the safest Nuclear plants in the country, humerus part, they sell most of it up North and mid-West, and buy electricity from Duke Power, who also operates nuclear plants. Yes, they produce hazardous waste, but are pretty damn reliable and safe. We would have more in this country if it wasn't for fear mongers 40 or so years ago saying how dangerous they are and pointing to Three Mile Island as an example.

We have Dominion now, they bought out our state run utility after they spent billions on a nuclear power plant and never actually built it shafting the consumer with the debt and not a single person went to jail for fraud. Dominion came in offer each customer a $1000 rebate and lower rates to take over, that turned into some people getting $0.12 rebate checks and rates went down only half way back to normal rates.

[Danny G]

A guy I work with has had a Nissan Leaf for a while, and now bought a Tesla (I don't know the model). The Leaf had enough range for him to commute ~25 miles each way 3 seasons of the year, but he couldn't run his heater in the Minnesota winters unless he could recharge at work. Now the Tesla will let him run the heater and still make it home, plus it will let him drive it from the Twin Cities to his cabin in northern Wisconsin (150 ~ 200 miles). In use like that just being able to plug it in at home (or at the cabin) lets him charge it up overnight so "refueling" essentially takes him no time at all.

However on a cross-country trip (especially if towing another truck on a trailer!) you need to stop driving just to "refuel". And so far that happens more often and takes longer with electric than it does with gas or diesel. So for cross-country use electric cars are still mostly going to be owned by people who want the novelty of it (not that there aren't really good reasons to want that novelty).

And for what it's worth, another friend told me that he heard that if all passenger car usage switched over to all-electric cars we'd need to increase the capacity of our electric grid by 25%. I don't know if that's accurate, but assuming it is, that's not insignificant, but it's not out of the question either.

Absolutely our electrical infrastructure is pretty bad, hell look at California, they have to shut power off to prevent wild fires when it gets windy. Spend 20 minutes on google/youtube and you will see how pitifully vulnerable and outdated it is. Lots of money needs to be put into it.

[ArdWrknTrk]

... for what it's worth, another friend told me that he heard that if all passenger car usage switched over to all-electric cars we'd need to increase the capacity of our electric grid by 25%. I don't know if that's accurate, but assuming it is, that's not insignificant, but it's not out of the question either.

The Tesla semis hauling batteries down from Nevada to the Fremont factory actually GAIN charge because of ReGen and the fact they go back empty.....

And we could probably do away with half of the stinking refineries spewing "stuff" into the air we breathe. And half of the tankers hauling dangerous, flammable liquids on our highways (sorry Dave)

IMO, investment in infrastructure is very rarely a bad thing (unless you're a lobbied Senator from AK building a bridge to nowhere)

I see DOZENS of Tesla's every day.

It is a statement that many people who don't have to struggle want to make.

If you want to call that 'virtue siginaling' be my guest.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

I read an article that said all these people dumping there cars for electric to be more environmentally friendly were actually hurting the environment, that the it was more efficient, and more environmentally friendly to buy an older vehicle and repair it due to the pollution from scrapping and new manufacturing and the supply system of new vehicles.

As with everything there are 50 shades of grey between that black and white.

I, for example, have held onto my truck for 32 years. It's a gross polluter and barely makes double digit fuel mileage.

Its cost of production and delivery were ameliorated years ago, and if I went out and bought a new $50k truck it would be a net positive for the planet.

But, then I'd be saddled with the banks vig every month, pay much more in taxes and insurance, and take less pleasure in fixing simple things.

Buying a lightly used car that's off lease and three years old with under 40k on the clock is a good thing, but I don't see myself doing that either...

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

I read an article that said all these people dumping there cars for electric to be more environmentally friendly were actually hurting the environment, that the it was more efficient, and more environmentally friendly to buy an older vehicle and repair it due to the pollution from scrapping and new manufacturing and the supply system of new vehicles.

As with everything there are 50 shades of grey between that black and white.

I, for example, have held onto my truck for 32 years. It's a gross polluter and barely makes double digit fuel mileage.

Its cost of production and delivery were ameliorated years ago, and if I went out and bought a new $50k truck it would be a net positive for the planet.

But, then I'd be saddled with the banks vig every month, pay much more in taxes and insurance, and take less pleasure in fixing simple things.

Buying a lightly used car that's off lease and three years old with under 40k on the clock is a good thing, but I don't see myself doing that either...

Anyone want to discuss the unmentioned 800# gorilla?

Fuel cells.

Why burn fossil fuel, to create heat, to create steam, to spin a turbine, to drive a generator, to produce electricity?

Ion exchange and electron pumping can do that without any moving parts, nor many of the steps (which EACH consume energy).

Using methane as feedstock will leave you with heat, electricity, hydrogen and concentrated CO2.

Hydrogen can go into another fuel cell creating more heat and electricity, with only pure water as waste.

Heat can be used for industrial processes, utility heating (like steam is in Manhattan) even air conditioning.

The technology is a hundred years old, but now it's getting attention.

If we're going to use fossil fuels why not get the most out of it?

I can't wait.

***Back on topic***

[Ray Cecil]

.......I see DOZENS of Tesla's every day.

It is a statement that many people who don't have to struggle want to make.

If you want to call that 'virtue siginaling' be my guest.

I see dozens here as well. A lot of engineers drive them. These are guys who do work really hard. Engineering is a difficult task, and it is for sure a stuggle. Just because a stuggle isnt physical, doesnt make it any less painful.

I just spend a week in a building with hundreds of engineers. Trust me, its a whole different world of struggle than a guy in the field getting his hands dirty. Honestly, I prefer to get my hands dirty.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

.......I see DOZENS of Tesla's every day.

It is a statement that many people who don't have to struggle want to make.

If you want to call that 'virtue siginaling' be my guest.

I see dozens here as well. A lot of engineers drive them. These are guys who do work really hard. Engineering is a difficult task, and it is for sure a stuggle. Just because a stuggle isnt physical, doesnt make it any less painful.

I just spend a week in a building with hundreds of engineers. Trust me, its a whole different world of struggle than a guy in the field getting his hands dirty. Honestly, I prefer to get my hands dirty.

So, are you calling it virtue signalng'

Or, are you saying these engineers recognize the advantages, and are willing to pay the price for them?

[Dorsai]

So, are you calling it virtue signalng'

Or, are you saying these engineers recognize the advantages, and are willing to pay the price for them?

You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Tesla around here. They're mostly driven by 30/40-something tech nerds.