The FORD Lounge

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm not really a big fan of electric vehicles, but a lot of that is probably because you can't get one from the '90s or earlier, and I'm not really a big fan of any vehicle from this millennia! But I do have a friend who has a Nissan Leaf and a Tesla. He likes the Leaf but loves the Tesla. He has about a 40 mile drive each way to work. The Leaf can easily make that in the summer, but he can't run the heater as much as he might like to confidently get to work and back on a cold winter day. The Tesla will easily make that.

As far as long road trips, like Jim says, my friend's experience has been that he needs to stop at least as often as the Tesla does, and typically when he's ready to leave the car is too.

On the other hand, my dad has a friend with an EV and his experience has been that too often he'll get to a charging station and will have to wait his turn. That makes the stops longer than typical gas stops and he's not a big fan. But that hasn't been an issue for my friend. I guess it depends on where you are, and obviously the infrastructure is still being built up.

As far as trucks go, I certainly get that all-electric can be a good fit for in-town commercial use, where the truck will have a lot of start-stops, and a lot of low speed driving during the day and then sit overnight.

But for personal pickups? It's not a great fit. But then again, personal pickups aren't a great fit to start with! Who can justify driving a heavy brick as a commuter car? Or on family vacations? It's just the wrong vehicle for most of the jobs it's used for. But still we do it because gas is still pretty cheap and very energy-dense, so it's not that bad to pay our way past the bad decision to have a pickup.

I do think there will be a fair amount of social re-engineering needed to get EVs to completely catch on. We won't be able to pull an 8,000 lb trailer, or drive a motorhome across the country. Right now giving up those "rights" seems unthinkable (and I'm certainly not ready to!). But I bet that's coming.

And even city commuting. Sure it's cheap and easy to charge your car during off-peak times so you can drive it to work the next day. But what about if everyone is doing it? "Off-peak" will end up being during the day time! And how about large apartment complexes? Will there be enough charging stations for everyone there? I'm betting that we'll need more of that social re-engineering to get more people to use mass transit to make that workable. But again, the way we do it now really doesn't make sense, we ought to be using more mass transit. But I don't want to, so I keep driving my 3/4 ton crew cab as a commuter car.

There's certainly no waiting at the rest stops around here. These photos are of the other side parking lot of the same "welcome center"

This is I-95 in lower Fairfield county, where we see over 300,000 cars a day.

There's one of these about every 10 miles, at least as far up as New Haven.

I'm not really a big fan of electric vehicles,

..... personal pickups aren't a great fit to start with! Who can justify driving a heavy brick as a commuter car? Or on family vacations? It's just the wrong vehicle for most of the jobs it's used for. But still we do it because gas is still pretty cheap and very energy-dense, so it's not that bad to pay our way past the bad decision to have a pickup.

I keep driving my 3/4 ton crew cab as a commuter car.

And even city commuting. Sure it's cheap and easy to charge your car during off-peak times so you can drive it to work.

"Peak times" are when everyone gets up, turns on the coffee maker and takes a hot shower. Then again in the evening when people get home, crank the AC and cook dinner. (at the same time)

With more and more renewables on the grid there's often such abundance that rates go to zero before the utilities need to curtail production.

With vehicles added to the grid there's extra grid storage available and 'smart chargers' can not only take advantage of this, but they can help with balancing the load.

(take a look at the stats for wind in West Texas last year!)

If they actually had grid connections none of that curtailed power would have had to be dumped into the earth.....

 

[viven44]

There's certainly no waiting at the rest stops around here. These photos are of the other side parking lot of the same "welcome center"

This is I-95 in lower Fairfield county, where we see over 300,000 cars a day.

There's one of these about every 10 miles, at least as far up as New Haven.

I'm not really a big fan of electric vehicles,

..... personal pickups aren't a great fit to start with! Who can justify driving a heavy brick as a commuter car? Or on family vacations? It's just the wrong vehicle for most of the jobs it's used for. But still we do it because gas is still pretty cheap and very energy-dense, so it's not that bad to pay our way past the bad decision to have a pickup.

I keep driving my 3/4 ton crew cab as a commuter car.

And even city commuting. Sure it's cheap and easy to charge your car during off-peak times so you can drive it to work.

"Peak times" are when everyone gets up, turns on the coffee maker and takes a hot shower. Then again in the evening when people get home, crank the AC and cook dinner. (at the same time)

With more and more renewables on the grid there's often such abundance that rates go to zero before the utilities need to curtail production.

With vehicles added to the grid there's extra grid storage available and 'smart chargers' can not only take advantage of this, but they can help with balancing the load.

(take a look at the stats for wind in West Texas last year!)

If they actually had grid connections none of that curtailed power would have had to be dumped into the earth.....

Yin and Yang at my workplace. 460 equipped 40 year old truck and a Tesla that will be defunct in another 15 years due to ridiculous battery replacement costs. Only ones that buy EVs are ones that are tired of waiting for an oil change and others that can afford one.

Not saying we aren’t on the correct track as a society with EV adoption.

The downright ridiculous EVs are the new dodge chargers and challengers. I’m keen to see how many of them are sold.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yin and Yang at my workplace. 460 equipped 40 year old truck and a Tesla that will be defunct in another 15 years due to ridiculous battery replacement costs. Only ones that buy EVs are ones that are tired of waiting for an oil change and others that can afford one.

Not saying we aren’t on the correct track as a society with EV adoption.

The downright ridiculous EVs are the new dodge chargers and challengers. I’m keen to see how many of them are sold.

Tesla's everywhere up here.

You see a few Rivian's and Ioniq's

Some like the almost complete lack of maintenance, but after being given a ride in a dual motor Model S Plaid, I can tell you 0-60 in 2.5 seconds and 10 seconds quarter miles without any noise or fuss at all really does have it's appeal.

I can only describe the acceleration as violent.

There's one guy in town with an original 2010 Roadster (the stretched Lotus Elise model) in British racing green with over 300k still on his original battery.

He owns a solar company and the vanity plates say SUNPWR.

[mat in tn]

Tesla's everywhere up here.

You see a few Rivian's and Ioniq's

Some like the almost complete lack of maintenance, but after being given a ride in a dual motor Model S Plaid, I can tell you 0-60 in 2.5 seconds and 10 seconds quarter miles without any noise or fuss at all really does have it's appeal.

I can only describe the acceleration as violent.

There's one guy in town with an original 2010 Roadster (the stretched Lotus Elise model) in British racing green with over 300k still on his original battery.

He owns a solar company and the vanity plates say SUNPWR.

I think the biggest argument comes in when we are having something forced on us. for whatever reason. if you want a Prius, buy a Prius. great car! I do not. I prefer old trucks but that's just me. anywhere from the lowest cost electric to a Maybach. does not matter. when the market fails, the market adjusts. but when a govt fails the people as a whole suffer. nothing comes free of charge. some cost is born by someone!

[ArdWrknTrk]

I think the biggest argument comes in when we are having something forced on us. for whatever reason. if you want a Prius, buy a Prius. great car! I do not. I prefer old trucks but that's just me. anywhere from the lowest cost electric to a Maybach. does not matter. when the market fails, the market adjusts. but when a govt fails the people as a whole suffer. nothing comes free of charge. some cost is born by someone!

Gary is griping about how electric pickups don't have the range he wants to drag a load of stuff to his kids house in SC or FL.

Or to drive the trails of Ouray. (?)

BTW I towed a Maybach the other night.

They really are luxury incarnate!

Not that I would want one,

[viven44]

Tesla's everywhere up here.

You see a few Rivian's and Ioniq's

Some like the almost complete lack of maintenance, but after being given a ride in a dual motor Model S Plaid, I can tell you 0-60 in 2.5 seconds and 10 seconds quarter miles without any noise or fuss at all really does have it's appeal.

I can only describe the acceleration as violent.

There's one guy in town with an original 2010 Roadster (the stretched Lotus Elise model) in British racing green with over 300k still on his original battery.

He owns a solar company and the vanity plates say SUNPWR.

The acceleration is a joy. I went for lunch with my co-worker with a Tesla and every time I go to lunch with him, I tell him to "hit it". When I am pushed back in the seat, I feel like I'm on a roller coaster.

I still don't know how I feel about something that is built to be disposable after 15 years.

My other "gas saving" vehicle today is a 1999 Honda Accord. It is still going very strong. Parts still very cheap to service. I just think once its all EVs, the common man or student who relies on an older affordable vehicle is going to suffer.

[ArdWrknTrk]

The acceleration is a joy. I went for lunch with my co-worker with a Tesla and every time I go to lunch with him, I tell him to "hit it". When I am pushed back in the seat, I feel like I'm on a roller coaster.

I still don't know how I feel about something that is built to be disposable after 15 years.

My other "gas saving" vehicle today is a 1999 Honda Accord. It is still going very strong. Parts still very cheap to service. I just think once its all EVs, the common man or student who relies on an older affordable vehicle is going to suffer.

My Sister had a 99 Accord in light metallic green.

When she moved to SC last year she gave it to my great nephew.

I'm still mad that I didn't get ANYTHING for the month+ of work I did so she could sell.

I'd told her I loved that little car(and fixed it multiple times)

I'm not sure what you mean about the used car market???

It's not like people don't buy new cars every day.🤷‍♂️

The old ones either get traded in, or sold on.

 

[viven44]

My Sister had a 99 Accord in light metallic green.

When she moved to SC last year she gave it to my great nephew.

I'm still mad that I didn't get ANYTHING for the month+ of work I did so she could sell.

I'd told her I loved that little car(and fixed it multiple times)

I'm not sure what you mean about the used car market???

It's not like people don't buy new cars every day.🤷‍♂️

The old ones either get traded in, or sold on.

I was just thinking of a scenario where in the future if/when its all EVs, and a student is only able to spend <$5K, they will only get an EV that is maybe 10+ years old and with an almost dead battery.

Battery replacement is cost prohibitive.. Did you see the news where a guy was quoted $50K to replace the battery on his Ioniq.

https://tnc.news/2023/11/22/ev-battery-replacement-cost-50000/

[ArdWrknTrk]

I was just thinking of a scenario where in the future if/when its all EVs, and a student is only able to spend <$5K, they will only get an EV that is maybe 10+ years old and with an almost dead battery.

Battery replacement is cost prohibitive.. Did you see the news where a guy was quoted $50K to replace the battery on his Ioniq.

https://tnc.news/2023/11/22/ev-battery-replacement-cost-50000/

First off, that's 50k Canadian.

Second, there is no history given for the previous owner.

Third, it wasn't charging and he continued to drive it. (If the charge controller isn't functioning, Lord knows how badly he abused the battery)

But the early chemistry on those batteries (2017 model, so 2016 built) was not the greatest.

Just like a phone, laptop or any other NMC battery, it's best not to load it when it's really low.

I'd like to have heard from the dealership, or something other than just him crying about it.

You'd have to be a fool to make a big purchase without a balance and load test.

Or! Maybe he bought it dirt cheap because he already knew it was trashed.

This is NOT investigative journalism. This is sensationalism, and click bait.

[viven44]

First off, that's 50k Canadian.

Second, there is no history given for the previous owner.

Third, it wasn't charging and he continued to drive it. (If the charge controller isn't functioning, Lord knows how badly he abused the battery)

But the early chemistry on those batteries (2017 model, so 2016 built) was not the greatest.

Just like a phone, laptop or any other NMC battery, it's best not to load it when it's really low.

I'd like to have heard from the dealership, or something other than just him crying about it.

You'd have to be a fool to make a big purchase without a balance and load test.

Or! Maybe he bought it dirt cheap because he already knew it was trashed.

This is NOT investigative journalism. This is sensationalism, and click bait.

OK I'll ignore this example. Maybe journalistic sensationalism.

It is however my guess that these EVs will only have a service life of 15 years before they are recycled. Once the battery is dead, high replacement cost will total them out. If they engineered it such that the battery can be swapped out with less labor, how nice would that be. Why bury the battery deep inside, like these smartphones.