Gary Lewis Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/02/ford-stopped-shipping-f-150-lightning-electric-trucks-in-february/ Interesting. Looks like Boeing isn't the only one with quality issues. But the pricing looks to also be a huge problem: "Demand initially looked strong, particularly as Ford began with a version of the Lightning for just under $40,000. But soon, the truck was hit with a series of price increases, and by mid-2023, an entry-level F-150 Lightning for non-fleet customers cost just under $60,000 before options." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Interesting. Looks like Boeing isn't the only one with quality issues. But the pricing looks to also be a huge problem: "Demand initially looked strong, particularly as Ford began with a version of the Lightning for just under $40,000. But soon, the truck was hit with a series of price increases, and by mid-2023, an entry-level F-150 Lightning for non-fleet customers cost just under $60,000 before options." You have to look at that price from the perspective of, almost NO maintenance, and fuel costs in the pennies per mile. No fuel system, no ignition, no exhaust, 'radiator' and coolant in the traditional sense, no oil changes or filters (x cabin air...) Plus onsite power, and vehicle to home backup power. A lot of homes in Texas could have stayed running (essential circuits) for days.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 You have to look at that price from the perspective of, almost NO maintenance, and fuel costs in the pennies per mile. No fuel system, no ignition, no exhaust, 'radiator' and coolant in the traditional sense, no oil changes or filters (x cabin air...) Plus onsite power, and vehicle to home backup power. A lot of homes in Texas could have stayed running (essential circuits) for days.... The price jump is the issue for me. I can't imagine the price needing to go up by 50% in a short period of time. I understand the reduced maintenance, but watching the price go up while I'm thinking about buying would be a serious turnoff. As for home power, I thought the new Lightning was an electric-only truck. I can see the hybrid powering a home, or at least the critical parts thereof, for several days if you had enough gas. But the electric-only ones would surely run out of juice pretty quickly. I could see driving a hybrid, but not totally electric for what I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 The price jump is the issue for me. I can't imagine the price needing to go up by 50% in a short period of time. I understand the reduced maintenance, but watching the price go up while I'm thinking about buying would be a serious turnoff. As for home power, I thought the new Lightning was an electric-only truck. I can see the hybrid powering a home, or at least the critical parts thereof, for several days if you had enough gas. But the electric-only ones would surely run out of juice pretty quickly. I could see driving a hybrid, but not totally electric for what I do. The price jumped because they had SO MANY pre orders. 💡 As for V2H, if the truck is set to charge off peak (and the Texas grid has a HUGE amount of overcapacity in the west) prices -sometimes- go negative. IOW they pay you to use power, because otherwise they'd have to curtail. Have you even looked at how big the battery is? It could run the average household essentials for 3-4 days. Especially the upscale one, instead of the tradesman one.... I know that I didn't drive more than 30 miles to a job 99% of the time. And when I got back to the shop (or home) the truck got parked -could be charging- while I drove the Audi or rode one of my bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 The price jumped because they had SO MANY pre orders. 💡 As for V2H, if the truck is set to charge off peak (and the Texas grid has a HUGE amount of overcapacity in the west) prices -sometimes- go negative. IOW they pay you to use power, because otherwise they'd have to curtail. Have you even looked at how big the battery is? It could run the average household essentials for 3-4 days. Especially the upscale one, instead of the tradesman one.... I know that I didn't drive more than 30 miles to a job 99% of the time. And when I got back to the shop (or home) the truck got parked -could be charging- while I drove the Audi or rode one of my bikes. The cognitive dissonance, and whataboutism is very deep around here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 The cognitive dissonance, and whataboutism is very deep around here.... I can see the electric truck being good for tradesmen as they typically don't drive that far in a day. But my truck rarely goes less than 400 - 500 miles in a day when we drive it. Off-peak charging is a great idea, as is charging any time the demand is lower than the wind/solar supply. But last I looked the home charging stations don't have a trigger for charging based on supply vs demand, just time. So the charging stations need to get smarter. As for powering the critical parts of a home for days, that takes more surgery on the home electrical system. Plus, it takes a pretty smart charging system that will disconnect from the mains and then only connect to the critical systems. Our son has a new Volvo hybrid and he had planned to have a charging station installed in their home. But the cost of just a simple charging system put him off and he's decided that he can do without since he has charging available at work - if he gets there in time. But my point is that simple charging systems aren't cheap, and smart ones that charge at specific times or when the demand is less than supply will be more. And then there are the ones that do switching and disconnect from the mains and connect the vehicle's battery to the critical loads in a house. So yes, electric vehicles are a good idea for a particular part of the market. And as the batteries and systems improve that part of the market will expand. But there is an up-front cost and it isn't cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I can see the electric truck being good for tradesmen as they typically don't drive that far in a day. But my truck rarely goes less than 400 - 500 miles in a day when we drive it. Off-peak charging is a great idea, as is charging any time the demand is lower than the wind/solar supply. But last I looked the home charging stations don't have a trigger for charging based on supply vs demand, just time. So the charging stations need to get smarter. As for powering the critical parts of a home for days, that takes more surgery on the home electrical system. Plus, it takes a pretty smart charging system that will disconnect from the mains and then only connect to the critical systems. Our son has a new Volvo hybrid and he had planned to have a charging station installed in their home. But the cost of just a simple charging system put him off and he's decided that he can do without since he has charging available at work - if he gets there in time. But my point is that simple charging systems aren't cheap, and smart ones that charge at specific times or when the demand is less than supply will be more. And then there are the ones that do switching and disconnect from the mains and connect the vehicle's battery to the critical loads in a house. So yes, electric vehicles are a good idea for a particular part of the market. And as the batteries and systems improve that part of the market will expand. But there is an up-front cost and it isn't cheap. I get it. You're that exceptional, traveling emergency trombone repair man who has to drive to Alaska at the drop of a hat 24/7/365, and can't possibly own another vehicle to do it. It's okay. I'll be dead soon, and so will you. The rest of the planet will just get on without those having analysis paralysis, or pearl clutching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 I get it. You're that exceptional, traveling emergency trombone repair man who has to drive to Alaska at the drop of a hat 24/7/365, and can't possibly own another vehicle to do it. It's okay. I'll be dead soon, and so will you. The rest of the planet will just get on without those having analysis paralysis, or pearl clutching. Nope, I just don't use the truck except when we go on trips and even then only when towing something or carrying quite a bit. It went to Charleston and then to Florida and back with a load of parts for Lil Blue over Christmas. And each of the days we drove it we put in about 500 or more miles. Then it went to Dallas and back, about 550 miles in one day, to look at seats that Vivek had. Otherwise we take the GLK, which gets 35 MPG. Both vehicles are paid for and are, hopefully, the last vehicles we will ever buy given our ages. They are in excellent shape and we don't want to pay for a new vehicle, regardless of how low the maintenance costs are or how cheaply they run as they'll still cost more overall than what we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Nope, I just don't use the truck except when we go on trips and even then only when towing something or carrying quite a bit. It went to Charleston and then to Florida and back with a load of parts for Lil Blue over Christmas. And each of the days we drove it we put in about 500 or more miles. Then it went to Dallas and back, about 550 miles in one day, to look at seats that Vivek had. Otherwise we take the GLK, which gets 35 MPG. Both vehicles are paid for and are, hopefully, the last vehicles we will ever buy given our ages. They are in excellent shape and we don't want to pay for a new vehicle, regardless of how low the maintenance costs are or how cheaply they run as they'll still cost more overall than what we have. Right. So you're absolutely the wrong person for the vehicle. That doesn't mean that 85% of the use cases wouldn't benefit. 🤷♂️ There was HUGE demand, and the two guys I know who laid their hands on them absolutely love them. Quiet. Never have to bother with gas stations or down time because of oil changes, tune-up 's or muffler work (too new for that... but if it doesn't exist, it NEVER needs repair. 🧐 Brakes will last 125k or more because of regen, etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 Right. So you're absolutely the wrong person for the vehicle. That doesn't mean that 85% of the use cases wouldn't benefit. 🤷♂️ There was HUGE demand, and the two guys I know who laid their hands on them absolutely love them. Quiet. Never have to bother with gas stations or down time because of oil changes, tune-up 's or muffler work (too new for that... but if it doesn't exist, it NEVER needs repair. 🧐 Brakes will last 125k or more because of regen, etc.. Exactly. We are the wrong people for buying an all-electric vehicle. We are old enough that our existing vehicles will last out our driving days - hopefully. Here's the kind of driving we do: Around Town: Just took Janey to the church building for her sewing day, which is every Tuesday. Yesterday was to Tulsa for one of her doctor's appointments, and tomorrow is back for another appointment. Trips: We drive to SC and on to Florida about twice a year, and each day of driving will be at least 500 miles. Plus we like to take other, shorter trips, but even those are several hundred miles/day. Carrying/Towing: We sold the boat so won't be towing it to Lake Powell again, but that trip was over 500 miles/day. And the trip to FL to pick up Big Blue was 1000 miles in two days going and 1000 miles in less than 24 hours returning. I don't anticipate getting another deal like that but still have the trailer and if I found the right cab and/or bed I would be tempted to take it to Charleston for Lil Blue. So if we were to buy we'd probably replace the GLK not the F150, and the replacement might be a small hybrid. That would reserve Blue for towing or when we have more than 3 or 4 passengers. And we'd then have the hybrid in electric mode for running around town and in hybrid mode for longer trips. But, I'd have to run some numbers 'cause it might be most cost effective to use the F150 on longer trips and have an all-electric vehicle for running around town. And yes, I understand the benefits of electric vehicles. And some day it'll probably make sense for all of our vehicles to be electric. But it doesn't right now for some applications given the limits of the technology. Plus there are always the specific situations, like us old people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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