Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

I have no idea what the purpose is for #2. It had to have been just to provide a signal.

But if you're using the same wire to trigger and power the relay, what is it's purpose?

Convention has 85 trigger and 86 ground.

So 85 pulls 87 low?

I don't know, Jim. Makes no sense to me. I tried to figure out how it could be a latching relay, but failed.

But, let's talk about what I did today toward assembling Big Blue. Very little. I spent quite a bit of time figuring out how that relay box is wired, only to realize that w/o fuses it won't work.

So I'm back to fleshing out Plan A - using a fender-mounted starter relay, no blower motor relay, and the headlight relays in the PDB. Which means I'll have to populate the 5th relay position. And I'll use the 30A auto-resetting breaker I have from another Ford PDB to replace a fuse to power the headlights. Power to the right headlights will run across the radiator support.

Given that, we are back to an easy interface - the fuselinks, save for Fuselink S to the inertia switch, will connect to the battery terminal on the starter relay. And, speaking of that, the ECU wants to know when the engine is cranking. So I'll do that via the red/light blue wire that's already in the harness crossing the radiator support. It will get connected to the red/light blue wire in the '85 wiring right there at the starter relay, thereby telling the ECU when the engine is being cranked.

And, I tried to update the BIOS on the computer, to no avail. So tomorrow I'm going to Best Buy to see what they have.

Last, the seal came in for the spindle so I installed it using the press. Don't know why I didn't do that before as it sure made it easy. Then I installed the seal on the axle and slipped the spindle in place - with plenty of anti-seize 'twixt it and the knuckle to ensure it isn't rusted to it again should I need to take it off. But, I still can't find the nuts that hold the spindles to the knuckles.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I don't know, Jim. Makes no sense to me. I tried to figure out how it could be a latching relay, but failed.

But, let's talk about what I did today toward assembling Big Blue. Very little. I spent quite a bit of time figuring out how that relay box is wired, only to realize that w/o fuses it won't work.

So I'm back to fleshing out Plan A - using a fender-mounted starter relay, no blower motor relay, and the headlight relays in the PDB. Which means I'll have to populate the 5th relay position. And I'll use the 30A auto-resetting breaker I have from another Ford PDB to replace a fuse to power the headlights. Power to the right headlights will run across the radiator support.

Given that, we are back to an easy interface - the fuselinks, save for Fuselink S to the inertia switch, will connect to the battery terminal on the starter relay. And, speaking of that, the ECU wants to know when the engine is cranking. So I'll do that via the red/light blue wire that's already in the harness crossing the radiator support. It will get connected to the red/light blue wire in the '85 wiring right there at the starter relay, thereby telling the ECU when the engine is being cranked.

And, I tried to update the BIOS on the computer, to no avail. So tomorrow I'm going to Best Buy to see what they have.

Last, the seal came in for the spindle so I installed it using the press. Don't know why I didn't do that before as it sure made it easy. Then I installed the seal on the axle and slipped the spindle in place - with plenty of anti-seize 'twixt it and the knuckle to ensure it isn't rusted to it again should I need to take it off. But, I still can't find the nuts that hold the spindles to the knuckles.

Did you look in your powder coat oven?

[ArdWrknTrk]

I don't know, Jim. Makes no sense to me. I tried to figure out how it could be a latching relay, but failed.

But, let's talk about what I did today toward assembling Big Blue. Very little. I spent quite a bit of time figuring out how that relay box is wired, only to realize that w/o fuses it won't work.

So I'm back to fleshing out Plan A - using a fender-mounted starter relay, no blower motor relay, and the headlight relays in the PDB. Which means I'll have to populate the 5th relay position. And I'll use the 30A auto-resetting breaker I have from another Ford PDB to replace a fuse to power the headlights. Power to the right headlights will run across the radiator support.

Given that, we are back to an easy interface - the fuselinks, save for Fuselink S to the inertia switch, will connect to the battery terminal on the starter relay. And, speaking of that, the ECU wants to know when the engine is cranking. So I'll do that via the red/light blue wire that's already in the harness crossing the radiator support. It will get connected to the red/light blue wire in the '85 wiring right there at the starter relay, thereby telling the ECU when the engine is being cranked.

And, I tried to update the BIOS on the computer, to no avail. So tomorrow I'm going to Best Buy to see what they have.

Last, the seal came in for the spindle so I installed it using the press. Don't know why I didn't do that before as it sure made it easy. Then I installed the seal on the axle and slipped the spindle in place - with plenty of anti-seize 'twixt it and the knuckle to ensure it isn't rusted to it again should I need to take it off. But, I still can't find the nuts that hold the spindles to the knuckles.

I'm surprised you don't build your own shop computer, and do some things to harden it against dust and grit.

But then it was pointed out recently that YOUR shop is more of an operating theater, and doesn't see that much abuse.

[Gary Lewis]

I'm surprised you don't build your own shop computer, and do some things to harden it against dust and grit.

But then it was pointed out recently that YOUR shop is more of an operating theater, and doesn't see that much abuse.

I didn't look in the oven, but you may be onto something. I may have PC'd them and then put them in the bag with the other PC'd but unused parts. (I know that's not what you meant. )

As for building my own computer, in a way I did on the one that failed. I added a solid-state drive and a graphics card with two HDMI outputs. But, I just saw on TV an advert for a custom computer-building outfit that is between me and Best Buy. So I'll stop there tomorrow. The requirements are a solid-state drive and a graphics card with two HDMI outputs. Doesn't have to be blindingly fast, but does need to have adequate memory.

As for how clean the shop is, you've been mislead. The blast cabinet creates a fine dust that escapes the dust collector and gets everywhere. So it would be helpful to have some kind of filtering on the computer. But this one ran for many years with no problems. In fact, it runs Win 8.1 and that was released Oct 17th, 2013, so it is probably seven years old. I wonder if the dust is why it suddenly shuts down?

[ArdWrknTrk]

I didn't look in the oven, but you may be onto something. I may have PC'd them and then put them in the bag with the other PC'd but unused parts. (I know that's not what you meant. )

As for building my own computer, in a way I did on the one that failed. I added a solid-state drive and a graphics card with two HDMI outputs. But, I just saw on TV an advert for a custom computer-building outfit that is between me and Best Buy. So I'll stop there tomorrow. The requirements are a solid-state drive and a graphics card with two HDMI outputs. Doesn't have to be blindingly fast, but does need to have adequate memory.

As for how clean the shop is, you've been mislead. The blast cabinet creates a fine dust that escapes the dust collector and gets everywhere. So it would be helpful to have some kind of filtering on the computer. But this one ran for many years with no problems. In fact, it runs Win 8.1 and that was released Oct 17th, 2013, so it is probably seven years old. I wonder if the dust is why it suddenly shuts down?

It's exactly what I meant!

Filtration, keyboard covers, liquid tight or explosion proof connecters, all that.

No need for radiation hardened boards, or anything like that, but conformal coating keeps dust out and corrosion at bay.

I probably would have swapped out that power supply when I first noticed it getting glitchy...

 

[85lebaront2]

I'm surprised you don't build your own shop computer, and do some things to harden it against dust and grit.

But then it was pointed out recently that YOUR shop is more of an operating theater, and doesn't see that much abuse.

Ok gentlemen, do I have to put both of you in time out?

First, resistance wire in 1985-87 hot fuel handling package pump circuit needs to be bypassed for EFI pumps. You also need to look at wire gauge and pump fuse size on the 1996 system.

Second, Bosch relay with large 30 & 87 terminals, is probably an ABS pump motor relay typically using a 40 amp or bigger fuse.

Third, Ford used a standard Bosch relay to control the starter on the 1990 Town Car and the 1991 up Panther (and other) platforms to operate the PMGR starter.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok gentlemen, do I have to put both of you in time out?

First, resistance wire in 1985-87 hot fuel handling package pump circuit needs to be bypassed for EFI pumps. You also need to look at wire gauge and pump fuse size on the 1996 system.

Second, Bosch relay with large 30 & 87 terminals, is probably an ABS pump motor relay typically using a 40 amp or bigger fuse.

Third, Ford used a standard Bosch relay to control the starter on the 1990 Town Car and the 1991 up Panther (and other) platforms to operate the PMGR starter.

Can an admin put other admins in time out?

But good point on the resistance wire. I wondered about that but forgot to follow up. I'll have to redraw that diagram to bypass it. And, I will check out the rest of the circuitry, including the fuses and wire sizes. Thanks!

As for the relays, I just happened to have that box and though I might as well use the bigger relay. And, Jim is bringing his PMGR in with a 40A Bosch, so we do realize it can be done.

Anyway, thanks for the tip on the wiring.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Ok gentlemen, do I have to put both of you in time out?

First, resistance wire in 1985-87 hot fuel handling package pump circuit needs to be bypassed for EFI pumps. You also need to look at wire gauge and pump fuse size on the 1996 system.

Second, Bosch relay with large 30 & 87 terminals, is probably an ABS pump motor relay typically using a 40 amp or bigger fuse.

Third, Ford used a standard Bosch relay to control the starter on the 1990 Town Car and the 1991 up Panther (and other) platforms to operate the PMGR starter.

I understand the 30A relay for PMGR.

And I pointed it out.

I used the bigger one because it came in my box, as I showed.

I don't know about abs pump relays, but Gary said it was rated at 70A.

It didn't come from the 450, and I don't know where he got the PDC.

But I do know the Lincoln/T-bird fans need a LOT of juice on high.

Gary does have the 450 harness, so he should be able to replicate the in-tank pump wiring.

I really wish he had just told me he wanted *everything* when I was pulling it apart piecemeal.

It could have been just big chunks, like you got the gray dash.

 

[Nothing Special]

But if you're using the same wire to trigger and power the relay, what is it's purpose?....

Sorry, I'm not taking the time to look over Gary's schematics, so this is probably completely off base...

From what I gather the horn relay on early Broncos has three wires to it. One goes to (or comes from) a power source, one goes to the horn and one goes to the horn button. I haven't looked at a schematic for it, or looked at mine at all. But that would make sense if they are using the same always-hot wire to "trigger" and power the relay, but are using the horn button to switch the relay's ground.

In other words, when the relay isn't grounded (you aren't pushing the horn button) the relay coil is getting power, but with no ground it doesn't turn on so the relay is open and the horn doesn't get power.

When you hit the horn button the relay coil is grounded so it switches on and the horn gets power, with the same wire providing the power to both the relay coil and the horn.

In the very likely case that this wasn't at all helpful, I apologize for the interruption.

[Gary Lewis]

But if you're using the same wire to trigger and power the relay, what is it's purpose?....

Sorry, I'm not taking the time to look over Gary's schematics, so this is probably completely off base...

From what I gather the horn relay on early Broncos has three wires to it. One goes to (or comes from) a power source, one goes to the horn and one goes to the horn button. I haven't looked at a schematic for it, or looked at mine at all. But that would make sense if they are using the same always-hot wire to "trigger" and power the relay, but are using the horn button to switch the relay's ground.

In other words, when the relay isn't grounded (you aren't pushing the horn button) the relay coil is getting power, but with no ground it doesn't turn on so the relay is open and the horn doesn't get power.

When you hit the horn button the relay coil is grounded so it switches on and the horn gets power, with the same wire providing the power to both the relay coil and the horn.

In the very likely case that this wasn't at all helpful, I apologize for the interruption.

Jim - Yes, I do have the 450's harness, but Bill has assured me that the 85 & 86 tank wiring is the same. (However, he hadn't told me about the resistance wire, so I'd better check the rest of it. )

Sorry about all the stuff you sent. But it is going to get put to good use.

Bob - Thanks, but I'm keeping the Bullnose horn system and wiring. And Big Blue's horn worked when I pulled him apart, so hopefully it will when it goes back together.

Basically I'm trying to keep as much of the Bullnose wiring as I can in order to make this as simple as possible. So horn and the associated speed control, radio, HVAC, lighting, gauges, trailering package, etc will stay Bullnose and the engine controls will be '96. However, there are things that the engine control system needs, like to know when the engine is cranking. And, it needs to tell the fuel system when to run the pump. So there are interfaces.

But thanks anyway.