Big Blue's Transformation

[ArdWrknTrk]

I was thinking of just using aluminum and not fiberglass. At the top I'd just need a way to take the strain of closing the wedge off of the tape, and a piece of aluminum riveted in place would do that. At the bottom the triangle would be made up of aluminum pieces that overlap the plastic and are riveted in place. And in the middle I need to do something to force the bellows to bend. All of that would be covered with aluminum tape and then the insulation.

But I understand what you are saying about the fiberglass and using cardboard to serve as the mold. And I understand what you are saying about polyester or epoxy resin not adhering to the plastic. But I only have fairly small tubes of GFlex and it doesn't really flow all that well. Hmmm...

Let me get the pieces out on the work table and take some pics of different approaches. Then maybe we can make a more educated decision. But that'll be tomorrow after church.

Ahhh right!

You bought the thickened G-flex epoxy in tubes. 💡

And now I can understand why you think the aluminum would be good to hold the bend in place.

I wasn't getting the either/or part of your equation.

I'm not sure if I'm a big fan of pop rivets and soft plastic.

And I'd wonder about keeping aluminum and plastic sealed together with their vastly different coefficient of expansion.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Ahhh right!

You bought the thickened G-flex epoxy in tubes. 💡

And now I can understand why you think the aluminum would be good to hold the bend in place.

I wasn't getting the either/or part of your equation.

I'm not sure if I'm a big fan of pop rivets and soft plastic.

And I'd wonder about keeping aluminum and plastic sealed together with their vastly different coefficient of expansion.

Jim - Yes, that's what I have, but I didn't realize there was another type of G-flex. Shows how little I know.

What if I use the G-flex I have to glue the aluminum and plastic together, but hold the pieces in place with pop rivets and backing washers? The G-flex would seal that joint and the aluminum duct tape should seal the aluminum/aluminum joints.

Bill - I want to get to a system I can use all of the time rather than having to make changes when we find water. The Ozark Overland Adventure Trails have multiple water crossings per day and I don't want to have to change anything when I find one.

And I don't want to be pulling hot air from under the hood all the time. Which means I'll need to do some weatherstripping to prevent hot air from getting into the inlet above the radiator. Didn't you do something like that?

[Gary Lewis]

Jim - Yes, that's what I have, but I didn't realize there was another type of G-flex. Shows how little I know.

What if I use the G-flex I have to glue the aluminum and plastic together, but hold the pieces in place with pop rivets and backing washers? The G-flex would seal that joint and the aluminum duct tape should seal the aluminum/aluminum joints.

Bill - I want to get to a system I can use all of the time rather than having to make changes when we find water. The Ozark Overland Adventure Trails have multiple water crossings per day and I don't want to have to change anything when I find one.

And I don't want to be pulling hot air from under the hood all the time. Which means I'll need to do some weatherstripping to prevent hot air from getting into the inlet above the radiator. Didn't you do something like that?

Here's a shot of the bits under the hood in about the right position. However, the arrows indicate:

• Red: The corner can come down a bit, which will make the angle a little less

• Green: There's currently a bit less than an inch between the A/C belt and the inlet, so I'd like to get it a bit farther away

• Yellow: I can cut a bit more out of the snorkel and that will help with the angle

And here's the parts on the bench. I only drew in the red arrow, but in this position you can see that I can move the heal of the piece down a bit. But I need to leave enough for the G/flex to grip to, so...

Speaking of that, is G/Flex 650 Toughened Epoxy what I need for this? And how much? And what fiberglass?

Last, I might cut the bellows out and make a curve there That's because I'm afraid the bellows will put quite a strain on the two fasteners that hold the tongue of the snorkel to the radiator support. Thoughts?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Here's a shot of the bits under the hood in about the right position. However, the arrows indicate:

• Red: The corner can come down a bit, which will make the angle a little less

• Green: There's currently a bit less than an inch between the A/C belt and the inlet, so I'd like to get it a bit farther away

• Yellow: I can cut a bit more out of the snorkel and that will help with the angle

And here's the parts on the bench. I only drew in the red arrow, but in this position you can see that I can move the heal of the piece down a bit. But I need to leave enough for the G/flex to grip to, so...

Speaking of that, is G/Flex 650 Toughened Epoxy what I need for this? And how much? And what fiberglass?

Last, I might cut the bellows out and make a curve there That's because I'm afraid the bellows will put quite a strain on the two fasteners that hold the tongue of the snorkel to the radiator support. Thoughts?

Gary, I don't think you need the 650 to do fiberglass work, but I would suggest something like the 655 you DO have to bond whatever you end up creating to the existing plastic parts.

I would probably not use cloth on something like this because it has tight corners and no real planes.

I'd also probably start by making a light shell, checking fit and refining it, then building up some thickness and strength.

I'm not entirely certain if you want to use regular polyester resin for your modifications or something like 105/206 general purpose epoxy resin for the layup.

Polyester is a little finicky about the temperature it needs to cure and quite a bit runnier (viscosity).

Like a 20°f window 60-80, where it will fail to cure or it goes off like a rocket much beyond those limits.

It contains styrene monomer which dissolves the adhesives that hold matt together

Epoxies don't use a catalyst, and they don't have polyester issues like nasty flammable fumes or shrinkage from the evaporation of styrene. Instead they use hardeners that get incorporated into the polymer.

Because of that you have different hardeners that will work from just a bit above freezing to nearly 100°F.

It's easy to choose one that provides ample working time but the resin viscosity changes substantially with temp.

If you remove the bellows what would you do to replace it?

The nice thing about round shapes is that they are easy to slice up into various angle and length pie shapes and make about any type of curve. (ask a pipeliner)

Would you section something like a pool noodle as a form?

Is this your 'Final Solution' or a proof of concept demonstration?

Does the Windsor 'slit' flow anywhere near enough air for a built 460?

How will you truly seal this hose to the bottom of the air box?

 

[Gary Lewis]

Here's a shot of the bits under the hood in about the right position. However, the arrows indicate:

• Red: The corner can come down a bit, which will make the angle a little less

• Green: There's currently a bit less than an inch between the A/C belt and the inlet, so I'd like to get it a bit farther away

• Yellow: I can cut a bit more out of the snorkel and that will help with the angle

And here's the parts on the bench. I only drew in the red arrow, but in this position you can see that I can move the heal of the piece down a bit. But I need to leave enough for the G/flex to grip to, so...

Speaking of that, is G/Flex 650 Toughened Epoxy what I need for this? And how much? And what fiberglass?

Last, I might cut the bellows out and make a curve there That's because I'm afraid the bellows will put quite a strain on the two fasteners that hold the tongue of the snorkel to the radiator support. Thoughts?

Don't miss the questions in the previous post. But here's the first attempt using CAD - Cardboard Aided Design.

The two pieces of the part are butted together on the left side and there's a 3" gap on the right. Clearly that's not enough as the part hits the A/C belt where the red circle is. So I'll need to make more of an angle, either by cutting some of the plastic off on the left side or opening it up more on the right - or both.

But I think this approach is going to work as I can keep trimming and CAD'ing and I think I'll ultimately get it to fit. Then I can work on the other end to make it meet this one.

But I still have the question about the bellows. However, having had them compressed on the one side for 24 hours it seems like they are much easier to flex. And having a bit of flex in something like this is a good thing, so maybe they can stay?

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, I don't think you need the 650 to do fiberglass work, but I would suggest something like the 655 you DO have to bond whatever you end up creating to the existing plastic parts.

I would probably not use cloth on something like this because it has tight corners and no real planes.

I'd also probably start by making a light shell, checking fit and refining it, then building up some thickness and strength.

I'm not entirely certain if you want to use regular polyester resin for your modifications or something like 105/206 general purpose epoxy resin for the layup.

Polyester is a little finicky about the temperature it needs to cure and quite a bit runnier (viscosity).

Like a 20°f window 60-80, where it will fail to cure or it goes off like a rocket much beyond those limits.

It contains styrene monomer which dissolves the adhesives that hold matt together

Epoxies don't use a catalyst, and they don't have polyester issues like nasty flammable fumes or shrinkage from the evaporation of styrene. Instead they use hardeners that get incorporated into the polymer.

Because of that you have different hardeners that will work from just a bit above freezing to nearly 100°F.

It's easy to choose one that provides ample working time but the resin viscosity changes substantially with temp.

If you remove the bellows what would you do to replace it?

The nice thing about round shapes is that they are easy to slice up into various angle and length pie shapes and make about any type of curve. (ask a pipeliner)

Would you section something like a pool noodle as a form?

Is this your 'Final Solution' or a proof of concept demonstration?

Does the Windsor 'slit' flow anywhere near enough air for a built 460?

How will you truly seal this hose to the bottom of the air box?

Thanks, Jim.

I'm going to have to buy something for this project, so if G/Flex 650 would make it easier then I think I'd like to do that. And that sidesteps the issue of getting polyester resin to "hot", which I've done - to the point of charring the paint on a coffee can. So, do you like the idea of using 650?

As for removing the bellows, I'm not ready to make that decision. As said in the last post they are getting more flexible since I've had one side compressed, so maybe they'll be just the ticket to make the corner.

As for the proof of concept, I'm going to keep CAD'ing until it works and then use those dimensions to make the final piece(s).

Will it flow enough? Yes, for the way I drive the truck. But probably not if you really want to use the capability the engine has. However, that would require taking it above 4000 RPM and I rarely get above 3000.

As for sealing to the air box, it pops in and sorta seals. However, I have proven that I can pop it into the air box and then install the whole thing under the A/C hose, so I'll use aluminum duct tape to seal and insulate the joint and then install it.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Don't miss the questions in the previous post. But here's the first attempt using CAD - Cardboard Aided Design.

The two pieces of the part are butted together on the left side and there's a 3" gap on the right. Clearly that's not enough as the part hits the A/C belt where the red circle is. So I'll need to make more of an angle, either by cutting some of the plastic off on the left side or opening it up more on the right - or both.

But I think this approach is going to work as I can keep trimming and CAD'ing and I think I'll ultimately get it to fit. Then I can work on the other end to make it meet this one.

But I still have the question about the bellows. However, having had them compressed on the one side for 24 hours it seems like they are much easier to flex. And having a bit of flex in something like this is a good thing, so maybe they can stay?

From your picture above it looks like the apex needs to move closer to the fender rather than a bigger slice of pie.

I guess it depends how much you take out of the other piece to shift the coupling farther away from the belt and pulley.

[Gary Lewis]

From your picture above it looks like the apex needs to move closer to the fender rather than a bigger slice of pie.

I guess it depends how much you take out of the other piece to shift the coupling farther away from the belt and pulley.

I agree - if I understand what you mean. Let me say it another way: I need to take more out of the part, as shown by the yellow line below. Right?

And I forgot the fiberglass - are you suggesting mat?

[Gary Lewis]

I agree - if I understand what you mean. Let me say it another way: I need to take more out of the part, as shown by the yellow line below. Right?

And I forgot the fiberglass - are you suggesting mat?

I just realized that the two pics below show a big difference in the angle of the upper piece. In the pic on the right the upper piece is angled away from the engine when going toward the front of the truck, while in the pic on the left it angles toward the engine. Which explains why it hits the A/C belt.

Clearly that must change.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I agree - if I understand what you mean. Let me say it another way: I need to take more out of the part, as shown by the yellow line below. Right?

And I forgot the fiberglass - are you suggesting mat?

I don't know if you need to take more off. You definitely need to rotate it so the cardboard pie shape is pointing more toward the fender (counterclockwise)

I think that you will be fighting cloth of any weight and the smaller pieces needed will unravel as you try to work them into place.

I would refine the shapes you have, trying to soften corners and transitions, then wrap it in something that won't inhibit the resin cure.

You might want to thread a ty-wrap through the section of accordion that needs to bend tightly.

This can be cut later and pulled out of cured resin.

Make a shell strong just enough to hold its shape, remove the formers and bulk it up.