Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

https://www.kljack.com/products/bf1472-4b/

Thanks, Jim. But I've ordered the one Bruce recommended from O'Reilly's and it'll be in tomorrow.

The reason is that I've been on the phone and on chat with several vendors this morning and what I've discovered is that getting one with 1/4" threads will take some time. For instance, the one from K.L.Jack will be shipped USPS so I'm looking at a few days. And O'Reilly's doesn't carry the 1/4" version. So I'll continue to use the 1/4 to 1/8 bushing and ordered the one from O'Reilly's.

Having said that, I may have to swap out the ones on the air bags themselves if they are leaking. But we'll give them a chance. Perhaps their center barb makes them less likely to leak by pushing the tubing out and making it round.

And speaking of the line, the various DOT-approved fittings say they work with SAE J844 hose. I got to worrying that the ID of mine might not meet those specs. So I found this catalog that says the ID of a 1/4" hose should be .170". But when I measured mine I got from .158 to .178". So my tubing isn't quite round and that may be part of the problem with the push connectors that don't have the center barb.

But a drill bit that measures .170" is a nice fit in my tubing, so I do think it'll work well with the compression connector. We shall see!

Thanks, everyone! I appreciate the help.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Jim. But I've ordered the one Bruce recommended from O'Reilly's and it'll be in tomorrow.

The reason is that I've been on the phone and on chat with several vendors this morning and what I've discovered is that getting one with 1/4" threads will take some time. For instance, the one from K.L.Jack will be shipped USPS so I'm looking at a few days. And O'Reilly's doesn't carry the 1/4" version. So I'll continue to use the 1/4 to 1/8 bushing and ordered the one from O'Reilly's.

Having said that, I may have to swap out the ones on the air bags themselves if they are leaking. But we'll give them a chance. Perhaps their center barb makes them less likely to leak by pushing the tubing out and making it round.

And speaking of the line, the various DOT-approved fittings say they work with SAE J844 hose. I got to worrying that the ID of mine might not meet those specs. So I found this catalog that says the ID of a 1/4" hose should be .170". But when I measured mine I got from .158 to .178". So my tubing isn't quite round and that may be part of the problem with the push connectors that don't have the center barb.

But a drill bit that measures .170" is a nice fit in my tubing, so I do think it'll work well with the compression connector. We shall see!

Thanks, everyone! I appreciate the help.

Did a bit more research on what the Gates connectors look like and how to use them, and found the Gates Brass Catalog. And on pages 44 & 45 there are the instructions shown below.

But I'm a bit confused. It depicts Tube Support ©, but doesn't tell you to insert it as you assemble it. But when you disassemble it the instructions say "Remove nut and pull the tubing out of coupling body “D”. Insert will remain in tubing." So it must have been in there?

And the re-assembly instructions say to "Push tubing and insert “C” into coupling body “D” until it bottoms, then thread nut “A” into coupling body “D” and torque per the chart below." So on re-assembly you use C but not on initial assembly? (And I assume the "chart below" is actually the chart above since there isn't one below?)

How do y'all read this? I've called and left a message with Gates, but don't really expect a call back.

[Bruce moose4x4]

Did a bit more research on what the Gates connectors look like and how to use them, and found the Gates Brass Catalog. And on pages 44 & 45 there are the instructions shown below.

But I'm a bit confused. It depicts Tube Support ©, but doesn't tell you to insert it as you assemble it. But when you disassemble it the instructions say "Remove nut and pull the tubing out of coupling body “D”. Insert will remain in tubing." So it must have been in there?

And the re-assembly instructions say to "Push tubing and insert “C” into coupling body “D” until it bottoms, then thread nut “A” into coupling body “D” and torque per the chart below." So on re-assembly you use C but not on initial assembly? (And I assume the "chart below" is actually the chart above since there isn't one below?)

How do y'all read this? I've called and left a message with Gates, but don't really expect a call back.

Gary, the insert C will come in the fitting( as compared to how they used to come, fitting and the insert was extra and you had to insert them before assembly.) After a while they started making fittings(basically the DOT approved fittings) with the insert installed in fitting to speed up production. You can use the insert on a normal compression fitting but they will be bought separately.

Once you install, the sleeve will be attached to the tube with the sleeve. It will not come out, The fitting is made for nut,sleeve and insert to come out when dissembled. So the valve or whatever the fitting is installed in can be changed, then tube is reinstalled in fitting.

The push connect fitting on the air bag, if it had an insert in it? should be OK. Like you thought the insert keeps the tube round against the seal.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, the insert C will come in the fitting( as compared to how they used to come, fitting and the insert was extra and you had to insert them before assembly.) After a while they started making fittings(basically the DOT approved fittings) with the insert installed in fitting to speed up production. You can use the insert on a normal compression fitting but they will be bought separately.

Once you install, the sleeve will be attached to the tube with the sleeve. It will not come out, The fitting is made for nut,sleeve and insert to come out when dissembled. So the valve or whatever the fitting is installed in can be changed, then tube is reinstalled in fitting.

The push connect fitting on the air bag, if it had an insert in it? should be OK. Like you thought the insert keeps the tube round against the seal.

Thanks, Bruce. That's what I thought.

I got a call from a nice lady at Gates who pulled up the page on the catalog and agreed with me that a step was missing in the instructions. In fact, she checked with an engineer who confirmed it - C is supposed to be inserted in the tube. So she took notes about that as well as the "and torque per the chart below", which really should be "chart above" and said she'd pass them on to the right people.

But she couldn't answer the question if the part I have on order, G32134-0402, comes with C as well as the other bits. I felt sure it does but she wanted to check and said she'd call me back. You've confirmed my expectations, but I'll be happy to hear that from her as well.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Bruce. That's what I thought.I got a call from a nice lady at Gates who pulled up the page on the catalog and agreed with me that a step was missing in the instructions. In fact, she checked with an engineer who confirmed it - C is supposed to be inserted in the tube. So she took notes about that as well as the "and torque per the chart below", which really should be "chart above" and said she'd pass them on to the right people.But she couldn't answer the question if the part I have on order, G32134-0402, comes with C as well as the other bits. I felt sure it does but she wanted to check and said she'd call me back. You've confirmed my expectations, but I'll be happy to hear that from her as well.

I heard back from Briana at Gates. She hasn't gotten confirmation about what parts are included with the fitting, but said she hopes to hear tomorrow morning and will call me when she does.

 

But, she had found a video on how to install connectors, as shown below. However, it doesn't go into the bit about only turning the nut 3 times after getting it finger tight, and I think that's probably important as I found this not only in the Gates instructions but also at New-Line Hose & Fittings.

 

[Gary Lewis]

I heard back from Briana at Gates. She hasn't gotten confirmation about what parts are included with the fitting, but said she hopes to hear tomorrow morning and will call me when she does.

 

But, she had found a video on how to install connectors, as shown below. However, it doesn't go into the bit about only turning the nut 3 times after getting it finger tight, and I think that's probably important as I found this not only in the Gates instructions but also at New-Line Hose & Fittings.

 

Just heard back from Briana and she confirmed that all of the parts, including the sleeve and support, are included with the fitting.

[Bruce moose4x4]

Just heard back from Briana and she confirmed that all of the parts, including the sleeve and support, are included with the fitting.

Gary,

Sorry I didn't mention the insert in the first post about this. In my Heavy duty world it is common knowledge to use the insert. In Light duty world not so much, I guess. It would have saved you a lot of headaches.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary,

Sorry I didn't mention the insert in the first post about this. In my Heavy duty world it is common knowledge to use the insert. In Light duty world not so much, I guess. It would have saved you a lot of headaches.

No problem, Bruce. I've used brass ferrules on plastic tubing without the insert for decades w/o a problem, but this time I think I've learned that the insert makes a big difference. Perhaps it is the larger size of the line? Or maybe the design of the connector? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that if I follow Gates' installation instructions the DOT-approved connectors will do the job.

[Gary Lewis]

No problem, Bruce. I've used brass ferrules on plastic tubing without the insert for decades w/o a problem, but this time I think I've learned that the insert makes a big difference. Perhaps it is the larger size of the line? Or maybe the design of the connector? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that if I follow Gates' installation instructions the DOT-approved connectors will do the job.

Morning report: the pressure was down to 60 PSI in spite of the truck having not been moved, so there's certainly a leak, albeit slow. Hopefully the compression fitting will be in this afternoon and tomorrow I can install it.

But that brings up a comparison of two different kinds of push-to-connect fittings. On the left is the Schrader valve from Firestone and you can see that it has a center tube that would force the tubing to be round, thereby better sealing with the o-ring you can see down below. And it would provide stability since the tubing can't be shifting from side to side.

On the right is the mate to the tee I have installed, and you can see that it doesn't have the center tube. As said yesterday I measured the ID of my tube from .158 to .178". But the OD is what the o-ring seals to, and I measure that from .251 to .259". That might seem to be close, but I suspect that's the cause of my slow leak. And the lack of the center tube would suggest that the tubing can shift from side to side and that could also cause a leak.

This sure has been a learning experience. Hopefully the compression fitting will seal it up tightly and the learning will be complete.

[Gary Lewis]

Morning report: the pressure was down to 60 PSI in spite of the truck having not been moved, so there's certainly a leak, albeit slow. Hopefully the compression fitting will be in this afternoon and tomorrow I can install it.

But that brings up a comparison of two different kinds of push-to-connect fittings. On the left is the Schrader valve from Firestone and you can see that it has a center tube that would force the tubing to be round, thereby better sealing with the o-ring you can see down below. And it would provide stability since the tubing can't be shifting from side to side.

On the right is the mate to the tee I have installed, and you can see that it doesn't have the center tube. As said yesterday I measured the ID of my tube from .158 to .178". But the OD is what the o-ring seals to, and I measure that from .251 to .259". That might seem to be close, but I suspect that's the cause of my slow leak. And the lack of the center tube would suggest that the tubing can shift from side to side and that could also cause a leak.

This sure has been a learning experience. Hopefully the compression fitting will seal it up tightly and the learning will be complete.

Got the Gates fitting today and I think it is going to be the bee's knees. However, it isn't exactly what I expected. The part labeled "C" in the catalog is actually pressed into the fitting and doesn't come out. And it sticks out far enough that it protrudes through the nut about 1/8" when the nut is torqued down, so it'll provide good support for the tube.

Speaking of torqued down, the instructions say that you are to turn the nut finger tight and then turn it three more turns. I tried it and there's no doubt about when you get to "finger tight". It turns freely and then it stops. So it'll be easy to know when you are there.

I plan to install it in the morning and then we'll see how tight the system is.