Big Blue's Transformation

[ArdWrknTrk]

Very true Jim, and my 3G is an uprated 160 amp unit, and I believe if he uses the PTO function he will be spinning it fast enough to handle the running load, if he uses a nice heavy jumper cable setup like wreckers have for jumping cars, it would more than handle what is needed (Damn engineers, overthinking everything).

My lab manager was like that, his initials are CES, a couple of us referred to him as "Complicate Everything Snyder", it was bad enough that more than once he would blow through drop useless suggestions and blow out. We would go do what we planned, he would come back later and believe we did what he suggested even though it wasn't.

I had a 90 amp side terminal alternator on my 1977 F150 with the 390. A good friend had come by with his 454 Chevy crew cab DRW truck (towed his rail with it), it wouldn't start when he got ready to leave, I hooked my big (Diesel) jumper cables to his from mine, he said give it a couple of mins to charge, I could see and hear the load on the alternator. He said I'll try it, between the nice hefty battery in mine and the alternator it spun like a damn small block, he was incredulous over the speed it cranked at.

I have some heavy cables too.

Never fail to get a car started, but people sometimes gasp if they see their corroded terminals smoking when the parrot jaws sink into the lead.

[Gary Lewis]

Put the inverter up front....

Just like the alternator only makes what's called for, an inverter only takes what the load calls for.

My compressor runs fine on a 15A 120 circuit. While that may be 150A @ 12V, that's no bigger a cable than your 3G is using.

7" diameter twin tanks also fit within your 8x16x26 envelope.

I looked at name plates on several Northern Tool compressors today but didn't find any that gave the locked rotor rating. But, as I said previously, one site I found said that usually runs at 4 to 8 times the running current. So let's take "6" as the mid-point on that range.

Your compressor pulls 14 amps while running, and at 120 volts that means it uses 1680 watts when running. So if we multiply 1680 watts times 6 we get 10,080 watts for starting. Let's round that to 10K watts. And usually an inverter will have a surge rating of twice its continuous rating, so let's look for a 5000 watt inverter.

Sure enough, this one on Amazon is rated at 5K watts continuous and 10K surge. And it costs $370.

But it measures 18.7 x 10.4 x 4.6 inches and I'm not sure I'll have that much space under the hood. Certainly not on the driver's side as there may not even be room for the aux battery there since the coolant recovery reservoir, air filter box, PDC, and cruise module will probably fill that side. Which means the aux battery may have to move to the passenger's side, and that will probably more than fill up that fender.

Now let's turn to the compressor. You said California Air, and I found several twin stack ones. But this 4620AC says it pulls 14 amps, so is it the one? If so, it sells for $323, which brings the total to essentially $700. But the inverter says it can't be left connected to the battery so we'll need a 200 amp relay, but they are only $20 or so.

So, let's compare this to the ARB CKMTA12, which is the top of their line and costs $542. The ARB has 4.6 CFM at 29 PSI and the California Air has 6.4 at 40 PSI, which is the closest I could get in pressure for CFM ratings. Obviously 6.4 is better than 4.6, but 4.6 is also twice what I was seeing in the Viair product line. How much is enough?

So, why wouldn't I just go with the ARB? It is designed for the offroading environment. It is simple to install as it is a complete unit, and it costs less than the inverter/compressor arrangement. Plus, it is known to work. And we don't know that a 5k watt inverter will even start that 120 volt compressor.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

I looked at name plates on several Northern Tool compressors today but didn't find any that gave the locked rotor rating. But, as I said previously, one site I found said that usually runs at 4 to 8 times the running current. So let's take "6" as the mid-point on that range.

Your compressor pulls 14 amps while running, and at 120 volts that means it uses 1680 watts when running. So if we multiply 1680 watts times 6 we get 10,080 watts for starting. Let's round that to 10K watts. And usually an inverter will have a surge rating of twice its continuous rating, so let's look for a 5000 watt inverter.

Sure enough, this one on Amazon is rated at 5K watts continuous and 10K surge. And it costs $370.

But it measures 18.7 x 10.4 x 4.6 inches and I'm not sure I'll have that much space under the hood. Certainly not on the driver's side as there may not even be room for the aux battery there since the coolant recovery reservoir, air filter box, PDC, and cruise module will probably fill that side. Which means the aux battery may have to move to the passenger's side, and that will probably more than fill up that fender.

Now let's turn to the compressor. You said California Air, and I found several twin stack ones. But this 4620AC says it pulls 14 amps, so is it the one? If so, it sells for $323, which brings the total to essentially $700. But the inverter says it can't be left connected to the battery so we'll need a 200 amp relay, but they are only $20 or so.

So, let's compare this to the ARB CKMTA12, which is the top of their line and costs $542. The ARB has 4.6 CFM at 29 PSI and the California Air has 6.4 at 40 PSI, which is the closest I could get in pressure for CFM ratings. Obviously 6.4 is better than 4.6, but 4.6 is also twice what I was seeing in the Viair product line. How much is enough?

So, why wouldn't I just go with the ARB? It is designed for the offroading environment. It is simple to install as it is a complete unit, and it costs less than the inverter/compressor arrangement. Plus, it is known to work. And we don't know that a 5k watt inverter will even start that 120 volt compressor.

I use my 2,000 watt Horrid Fate **Jupiter** inverter to run my California Air compressor all the time.

I am offering you a much better quality 3k inverter from a retired piece of rescue apparatus. **for free**

Isn't the start capacitor what deals with most of the inrush?

The breaker is built in to any inverter I've ever seen.

A cheap race car battery disconnect switch is all I use to tie it to the truck.

While my compressor is buried in sawdust and sheetrock dust most every day it may not be the same environment as alkaline dust from a dry lakebed or some sandy mud you might encounter off road.

Certainly I can't see how the TEFC motor is going to "lock up"

Will your ARB CKMTA 12 run the microwave to heat dinner? Or a kettle for coffee or tea?

Will it run any of the plethora of power tools my 2k W unit does?

Or auxiliary lighting, or a (tool) battery charger, or?????

You're digging your heels into a slippery slope, but then that seems to be SOP.

You're after another One Hoss Shay, and you'll get it eventually -with an inordinate amount of time, money and worry- or you could just get on with it and enjoy the ride.

** ** edit...

[ArdWrknTrk]

I looked at name plates on several Northern Tool compressors today but didn't find any that gave the locked rotor rating. But, as I said previously, one site I found said that usually runs at 4 to 8 times the running current. So let's take "6" as the mid-point on that range.

Your compressor pulls 14 amps while running, and at 120 volts that means it uses 1680 watts when running. So if we multiply 1680 watts times 6 we get 10,080 watts for starting. Let's round that to 10K watts. And usually an inverter will have a surge rating of twice its continuous rating, so let's look for a 5000 watt inverter.

Sure enough, this one on Amazon is rated at 5K watts continuous and 10K surge. And it costs $370.

But it measures 18.7 x 10.4 x 4.6 inches and I'm not sure I'll have that much space under the hood. Certainly not on the driver's side as there may not even be room for the aux battery there since the coolant recovery reservoir, air filter box, PDC, and cruise module will probably fill that side. Which means the aux battery may have to move to the passenger's side, and that will probably more than fill up that fender.

Now let's turn to the compressor. You said California Air, and I found several twin stack ones. But this 4620AC says it pulls 14 amps, so is it the one? If so, it sells for $323, which brings the total to essentially $700. But the inverter says it can't be left connected to the battery so we'll need a 200 amp relay, but they are only $20 or so.

So, let's compare this to the ARB CKMTA12, which is the top of their line and costs $542. The ARB has 4.6 CFM at 29 PSI and the California Air has 6.4 at 40 PSI, which is the closest I could get in pressure for CFM ratings. Obviously 6.4 is better than 4.6, but 4.6 is also twice what I was seeing in the Viair product line. How much is enough?

So, why wouldn't I just go with the ARB? It is designed for the offroading environment. It is simple to install as it is a complete unit, and it costs less than the inverter/compressor arrangement. Plus, it is known to work. And we don't know that a 5k watt inverter will even start that 120 volt compressor.

My compressor is the 4610-AC. It only offers 3.1 CFM @40. (But , like I said, how much can you get through a Schrader valve?)

And draws under 9A @ 120V.

I do see that California Air is coming out with a 12V contractor model for 2020.

https://www.californiaairtools.com/ultra-quiet-series-of-air-compressor-contractor-grade/12-volt-cat-12v1010s/

But the CFM seems tiny.

Edit: the 2010A is the same pump head as mine with a smaller tank at only $169.

I KNOW for a FACT that these motors will run on my 2,000W inverter.

...also, a 1200W Samsung microwave.

[Gary Lewis]

My compressor is the 4610-AC. It only offers 3.1 CFM @40. (But , like I said, how much can you get through a Schrader valve?)

And draws under 9A @ 120V.

I do see that California Air is coming out with a 12V contractor model for 2020.

https://www.californiaairtools.com/ultra-quiet-series-of-air-compressor-contractor-grade/12-volt-cat-12v1010s/

But the CFM seems tiny.

Edit: the 2010A is the same pump head as mine with a smaller tank at only $169.

I KNOW for a FACT that these motors will run on my 2,000W inverter.

...also, a 1200W Samsung microwave.

I'd completely missed that you run your California Air Tools 4610AC on your 2000 watt inverter. That's a game-changer as I've been very afraid of buying an inverter and compressor only to find one won't run the other.

And, I wasn't sure you were offering me the 3000 watt inverter, so I didn't want to ask as it might put you in a bind.

Thank you for being persistent. I've sent you an email so we can talk privately, and it includes questions about dimensions on it, which actually would be better answered on here so all can see.

But let me ask some questions about your compressor. Looking at the pictures it appears that:

• The motor/compressor is just sitting on rubber isolators on the frame, so could easily be unbolted and supported elsewhere. But can you get some rough measurements?

• The tanks are just held to the frame with tabs and through-bolts, but appear to be welded together to make one unit. You said they are 7" diameter, but could you give me some measurements on them as a unit?

• The filter for the compressor is a screw-in unit, so could be remoted for easy replacement?

I'm thinking that the motor needs protection from rain, etc, but it also needs ventilation. So I'm wondering if it would go ahead of the wheelwell and to the right of the toolbox in the bed. Any reason you see why it couldn't be mounted with its feet to the side of the toolbox?

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'd completely missed that you run your California Air Tools 4610AC on your 2000 watt inverter. That's a game-changer as I've been very afraid of buying an inverter and compressor only to find one won't run the other.

And, I wasn't sure you were offering me the 3000 watt inverter, so I didn't want to ask as it might put you in a bind.

Thank you for being persistent. I've sent you an email so we can talk privately, and it includes questions about dimensions on it, which actually would be better answered on here so all can see.

But let me ask some questions about your compressor. Looking at the pictures it appears that:

• The motor/compressor is just sitting on rubber isolators on the frame, so could easily be unbolted and supported elsewhere. But can you get some rough measurements?

• The tanks are just held to the frame with tabs and through-bolts, but appear to be welded together to make one unit. You said they are 7" diameter, but could you give me some measurements on them as a unit?

• The filter for the compressor is a screw-in unit, so could be remoted for easy replacement?

I'm thinking that the motor needs protection from rain, etc, but it also needs ventilation. So I'm wondering if it would go ahead of the wheelwell and to the right of the toolbox in the bed. Any reason you see why it couldn't be mounted with its feet to the side of the toolbox?

The California Air compressor is pretty much modular.

Yes, the two tanks are bridged with two tubes that join them.

My compressor is at the job (buried in snow) and I don't plan to go in today.

But I did measure the individual tanks at 6 5/8 x 18 1/2"

I think you'd be fine with the single tank model I linked.

It has the same pump and motor for only $169.

Again... I don't think you can push too much air through a Schrader valve.

The pump should easily keep up.

Mounting the pump/motor assembly anywhere you want would be a simple job of using a longer braided hose and wires from the pressure limit/unloader switch.

The regulator/coupler could also be remoted with any 1/4 NPT male-male line. Probably best another braided stainless over rubber hose from a plumbing supply.

Definitely NO need for anything like hydraulic pressure line.

 

[Gary Lewis]

The California Air compressor is pretty much modular.

Yes, the two tanks are bridged with two tubes that join them.

My compressor is at the job (buried in snow) and I don't plan to go in today.

But I did measure the individual tanks at 6 5/8 x 18 1/2"

I think you'd be fine with the single tank model I linked.

It has the same pump and motor for only $169.

Again... I don't think you can push too much air through a Schrader valve.

The pump should easily keep up.

Mounting the pump/motor assembly anywhere you want would be a simple job of using a longer braided hose and wires from the pressure limit/unloader switch.

The regulator/coupler could also be remoted with any 1/4 NPT male-male line. Probably best another braided stainless over rubber hose from a plumbing supply.

Definitely NO need for anything like hydraulic pressure line.

I'd forgotten that y'all are getting hit with the storm.

So, if the individual tanks are 6 5/8 x 18 1/2" then I'm going to guess the motor/compressor to be 6" x 14" based on the pics below.

And I agree that splitting the parts up would be easy. I'll check later, but I'm thinking the motor/compressor can go as said beside the tool box and ahead of the wheel well. Possibly turned on its side with the bolts going into the tool box so it can't be easily removed w/o getting into the box. And the regulator/switch/coupler could be mounted right there as well.

As for the tank(s), I think our measurements of the space under the fender and ahead of the tire say that a max height of 8" and a max width of 16" will fit nicely. So the twin tanks would appear to fit, but there are questions in my mind about connections. The inlet to the tanks is on the backside of the top tank, so that would point up when then are laid down. But the drain is on the bottom of the bottom tank, so it would point essentially sideways, and therefore wouldn't drain the tank properly.

However, the single tank unit looks like it might work nicely. The whole unit is said to be L (18.7") x W/D (14.2") x H (14.75"). But the motor/pump sits beside the tank, so if that is 6" then the tank is less than 8". And, the inlet is on top with the drain on the bottom. So perhaps the inlet can go through the bed floor and simplify the connections? And the drain could have a 90 on it to minimize its vulnerability?

[Gary Lewis]

I'd forgotten that y'all are getting hit with the storm.

So, if the individual tanks are 6 5/8 x 18 1/2" then I'm going to guess the motor/compressor to be 6" x 14" based on the pics below.

And I agree that splitting the parts up would be easy. I'll check later, but I'm thinking the motor/compressor can go as said beside the tool box and ahead of the wheel well. Possibly turned on its side with the bolts going into the tool box so it can't be easily removed w/o getting into the box. And the regulator/switch/coupler could be mounted right there as well.

As for the tank(s), I think our measurements of the space under the fender and ahead of the tire say that a max height of 8" and a max width of 16" will fit nicely. So the twin tanks would appear to fit, but there are questions in my mind about connections. The inlet to the tanks is on the backside of the top tank, so that would point up when then are laid down. But the drain is on the bottom of the bottom tank, so it would point essentially sideways, and therefore wouldn't drain the tank properly.

However, the single tank unit looks like it might work nicely. The whole unit is said to be L (18.7") x W/D (14.2") x H (14.75"). But the motor/pump sits beside the tank, so if that is 6" then the tank is less than 8". And, the inlet is on top with the drain on the bottom. So perhaps the inlet can go through the bed floor and simplify the connections? And the drain could have a 90 on it to minimize its vulnerability?

Well, the best-laid plans of mice and men. There's essentially no room beside the tool box as I'd envisioned. And only 4 1/2" below it.

So, some other place will be needed for the compressor. I thought about IN the tool box with the intake being run through the tool box, like maybe under it. But the motor/compressor surely needs cooling air and with the tool box crammed as it would be on a trip I doubt there'd be much air in there to cool it.

I thought about placing it below the bed with the tank, but that's a very dusty, wet, yukky area that wouldn't be conducive to the life of the unit.

Thoughts?

[Nothing Special]

.... So, some other place will be needed for the compressor. I thought about IN the tool box with the intake being run through the tool box, like maybe under it. But the motor/compressor surely needs cooling air and with the tool box crammed as it would be on a trip I doubt there'd be much air in there to cool it.

I thought about placing it below the bed with the tank, but that's a very dusty, wet, yukky area that wouldn't be conducive to the life of the unit.

Thoughts?

My thoughts...

In the tool box could still work if you discipline yourself to always open the cover when you are running the compressor. You'd probably be opening it to get out the hose anyway. Might be a bit of a drag if it was raining...

And on my old CJ5 I didn't have much room so I ended up putting it off the frame behind the right front tire. It was enough behind / above the inner fender to avoid getting directly hit by junk off the tire, but not a clean environment. Was it ideal? No, but it held up for the time I had that setup with no issues (~8 years). So maybe underneath but with some splash guards wouldn't be terrible?

 

[Gary Lewis]

.... So, some other place will be needed for the compressor. I thought about IN the tool box with the intake being run through the tool box, like maybe under it. But the motor/compressor surely needs cooling air and with the tool box crammed as it would be on a trip I doubt there'd be much air in there to cool it.

I thought about placing it below the bed with the tank, but that's a very dusty, wet, yukky area that wouldn't be conducive to the life of the unit.

Thoughts?

My thoughts...

In the tool box could still work if you discipline yourself to always open the cover when you are running the compressor. You'd probably be opening it to get out the hose anyway. Might be a bit of a drag if it was raining...

And on my old CJ5 I didn't have much room so I ended up putting it off the frame behind the right front tire. It was enough behind / above the inner fender to avoid getting directly hit by junk off the tire, but not a clean environment. Was it ideal? No, but it held up for the time I had that setup with no issues (~8 years). So maybe underneath but with some splash guards wouldn't be terrible?

Bob - I like the idea of just opening the covers, both sides, when running the compressor.

I could put a partition in the box to keep things from being stacked on the compressor, thereby giving it the best chance of keeping cool. And, I wouldn't have to take the intake filter off as it could just pull air from in the box.

However, my plan was to turn the compressor on before getting to the end of the trail so the tank would be full. But I'm not sure that having it running in the closed tool box would be a good idea. However, it only takes that compressor 50 seconds to fill the 2 gallon tank and 130 seconds to fill the 4.5 gallon dual tanks. I guess that it would take me at least that long to get the hose out and get ready to fill up a tire, so there's probably no need to fill the tank early. Or, perhaps in that short of time the motor and compressor would be happy with the covers closed?