Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

Grumpin - I kinda thought it was a joke.

 

Jim - I don't remember the details about the tank discussions. But with what I'm finding, below, I'm leaning at this point in time to a turnkey system.

 

All - I put together the following spreadsheet to try to get my head around the multitude of Viair offerings as well as other options. But so far all I've gotten on it is the Viair. However, it looks to me like topping up four 33" tires from 15 to 30 PSI might take all of 15 minutes at worst case. And while I know that a York would do it a lot faster, I'm questioning the need to do it a lot faster given the time it'll take up front to create the York-based system. Is it worth it?

 

Note that all of the numbers on there are from Viair's website, although I did interpolate from 35" tire times to get to 33" tire times since the bottom two systems don't list 33" times. And the three different pressure points I chose (0, 30, & 90) were to allow comparison to the York compressor as I so far have only found one rating on it.

 

Thoughts?

 

Apparently I thought about this quite a bit last night as I have come to a conclusion: The AC compressor idea isn't to my liking as the current required at 12v would be in excess of 120 amps, and that's some serious wiring.With that I just spent time in 4 Wheel Parts and guy that helped me does do some 'wheeling. Basically, in his opinion until you get up to the dual-compressor packages from ARB they are all somewhat limited. His Viair gets HOT, and he's sure it'll give up the ghost due to the heat. So he's seriously considering the ARB, but it is over $500. :nabble_smiley_scared:Having said that, he thinks the York compressor is the way to go, especially if you have one. And toward that end I did get a response back from C U Off Road and they don't have a York bracket for a Ford. But, they do have all the individual parts I'd need to make a York work.So, given that what Bob said fits well with what this guy said, I think I'll give the York a test fit once the engine goes into the truck. If it will fit nicely then I may go down that road. If not, it'll be back to a 12v compressor.

[Nothing Special]

.... However, it looks to me like topping up four 33" tires from 15 to 30 PSI might take all of 15 minutes at worst case. And while I know that a York would do it a lot faster, I'm questioning the need to do it a lot faster given the time it'll take up front to create the York-based system. Is it worth it?....

On my trip to Moab last summer I noted the time it took to air up my 33x10.50-15 tires from 15 - 30 psi. Unfortunately I don't remember where I wrote it down. I kind of think it might have been in one of the threads here. But barring finding a much more reliable memory than mine, I'm thinking it was around 15 minutes. That's with my 1.48 cfm @ 0 psi compressor, but starting with a 2.5 gallon tank at 100 psi (the pressurized tank lets me get the first tire done in a minute or so, with the rest of the time divided between the other three).

Is it worth setting up a more complicated system to go faster than 15 minutes? It hasn't been for me yet. But I do think about it on every trip. As I described it a few posts back, "it takes a slightly obnoxiously long time" to get the tires reinflated. It's slightly objectionable but not horrible for me as I do the work, but I'm a little (maybe overly?) sensitive to what my passengers think about just sitting in one place for 15 minutes. Lesley is pretty patient, so she hasn't complained. But if I didn't need the compressor to run when I'm towing the Bronco, and if I was doing it over, I'd want something faster. Given those two givens, I live with it, and I'm sure you can too.

But that 15 minutes of constant running is why I felt that a 100% duty cycle compressor was necessary. I don't know for sure that it's not OK to run a 33% compressor for 15 minutes and then shut it off for 30. But 15 minutes seems like a pretty long time to let it heat-soak. If you actually let it cool down for 10 minutes every 5 (if 5 isn't too long), now you're up to 35 minutes to inflate all 4 (assuming the last cool-down is while you're driving again). I know there's no way I'd do that, so I'd end up running the compressor hot and hoping I didn't melt it. Not wanting to be put in that situation I made sure i had a 100% duty compressor.

edit: Gary, I posted the above before your post today. What you said there sounds reasonable. But keep in mind the duty cycle if you go electric.

Oh, and I see that the Viair 450C is pretty close in stats to what I have, for what that's worth.

I also see you are looking at 145 psi in the tank. I have my compressor shutting off at 100 psi. Upping the shut-off pressure would let me get more inflation done before the tank wasn't helping, but seems like it would also be harder on the compressor in the long run. Plus I think I'd need to regulate the pressure to my air-operated OX locker then. I'm not saying you shouldn't run 145 psi. It might even be quite a bit better overall. But I think I'll stick with 100.

[Gary Lewis]

.... However, it looks to me like topping up four 33" tires from 15 to 30 PSI might take all of 15 minutes at worst case. And while I know that a York would do it a lot faster, I'm questioning the need to do it a lot faster given the time it'll take up front to create the York-based system. Is it worth it?....

On my trip to Moab last summer I noted the time it took to air up my 33x10.50-15 tires from 15 - 30 psi. Unfortunately I don't remember where I wrote it down. I kind of think it might have been in one of the threads here. But barring finding a much more reliable memory than mine, I'm thinking it was around 15 minutes. That's with my 1.48 cfm @ 0 psi compressor, but starting with a 2.5 gallon tank at 100 psi (the pressurized tank lets me get the first tire done in a minute or so, with the rest of the time divided between the other three).

Is it worth setting up a more complicated system to go faster than 15 minutes? It hasn't been for me yet. But I do think about it on every trip. As I described it a few posts back, "it takes a slightly obnoxiously long time" to get the tires reinflated. It's slightly objectionable but not horrible for me as I do the work, but I'm a little (maybe overly?) sensitive to what my passengers think about just sitting in one place for 15 minutes. Lesley is pretty patient, so she hasn't complained. But if I didn't need the compressor to run when I'm towing the Bronco, and if I was doing it over, I'd want something faster. Given those two givens, I live with it, and I'm sure you can too.

But that 15 minutes of constant running is why I felt that a 100% duty cycle compressor was necessary. I don't know for sure that it's not OK to run a 33% compressor for 15 minutes and then shut it off for 30. But 15 minutes seems like a pretty long time to let it heat-soak. If you actually let it cool down for 10 minutes every 5 (if 5 isn't too long), now you're up to 35 minutes to inflate all 4 (assuming the last cool-down is while you're driving again). I know there's no way I'd do that, so I'd end up running the compressor hot and hoping I didn't melt it. Not wanting to be put in that situation I made sure i had a 100% duty compressor.

edit: Gary, I posted the above before your post today. What you said there sounds reasonable. But keep in mind the duty cycle if you go electric.

Oh, and I see that the Viair 450C is pretty close in stats to what I have, for what that's worth.

I also see you are looking at 145 psi in the tank. I have my compressor shutting off at 100 psi. Upping the shut-off pressure would let me get more inflation done before the tank wasn't helping, but seems like it would also be harder on the compressor in the long run. Plus I think I'd need to regulate the pressure to my air-operated OX locker then. I'm not saying you shouldn't run 145 psi. It might even be quite a bit better overall. But I think I'll stick with 100.

I think we think alike. I’m worried about what Janey will think as I’m airing up, so want it to be quick. And given that I might go with 35’s later, I don’t want to go too small now.

So I’m going to explore the York approach and let you know. Thanks!

[ArdWrknTrk]

I think we think alike. I’m worried about what Janey will think as I’m airing up, so want it to be quick. And given that I might go with 35’s later, I don’t want to go too small now.

So I’m going to explore the York approach and let you know. Thanks!

And this is why I suggested a 14A 120V compressor....

My California Air has sub 8" diameter tanks, will run continuously, and has not yet tripped a breaker in a customer's house.

Wiring would be 14 Ga.

The inverter itself would be handy for other things.

And it sure as heck wouldn't take 20 minutes to air four tires from 15-32 psi.

But hey, make it as complicated as you like!

 

[grumpin]

And this is why I suggested a 14A 120V compressor....

My California Air has sub 8" diameter tanks, will run continuously, and has not yet tripped a breaker in a customer's house.

Wiring would be 14 Ga.

The inverter itself would be handy for other things.

And it sure as heck wouldn't take 20 minutes to air four tires from 15-32 psi.

But hey, make it as complicated as you like!

Thought I’d throw this in. I’ve seen them on electrical contractor trucks.

They are spendy and fairly heavy, and I’m sure better, smaller ones are out there.

I would think fairly quick on pumping up tires.

https://www.harborfreight.com/9-gallon-212cc-135-psi-wheelbarrow-air-compressor-epa-iii-69783.html

Edit: won’t meet any size requirements I think you have!

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thought I’d throw this in. I’ve seen them on electrical contractor trucks.

They are spendy and fairly heavy, and I’m sure better, smaller ones are out there.

I would think fairly quick on pumping up tires.

https://www.harborfreight.com/9-gallon-212cc-135-psi-wheelbarrow-air-compressor-epa-iii-69783.html

Edit: won’t meet any size requirements I think you have!

11 cfm @ 40psi (about what you would want to fill the tires to) is pretty crazy!

I'm sure that's probably the volume of all four tires together.

So, air from flat in a minute, if you could get that much through a Schrader valve.

[1986F150Six]

11 cfm @ 40psi (about what you would want to fill the tires to) is pretty crazy!

I'm sure that's probably the volume of all four tires together.

So, air from flat in a minute, if you could get that much through a Schrader valve.

Hmmm... grumpin and I were thinking along the same lines.

Here is another choice:

https://www.amazon.com/Industrial-Air-Contractor-CTA5090412-Compressor/dp/B002MKP5PQ/ref=pd_sbs_469_t_0/146-6078116-3502509?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B002MKP5PQ&pd_rd_r=8cd7e338-2bad-4bc3-b454-c26c717f521a&pd_rd_w=zQhXq&pd_rd_wg=ZX5eC&pf_rd_p=5cfcfe89-300f-47d2-b1ad-a4e27203a02a&pf_rd_r=9G98F42GXM1JZ77DBX3G&psc=1&refRID=9G98F42GXM1JZ77DBX3G

[Gary Lewis]

And this is why I suggested a 14A 120V compressor....

My California Air has sub 8" diameter tanks, will run continuously, and has not yet tripped a breaker in a customer's house.

Wiring would be 14 Ga.

The inverter itself would be handy for other things.

And it sure as heck wouldn't take 20 minutes to air four tires from 15-32 psi.

But hey, make it as complicated as you like!

Jim - I'm not worried about the 120 volt wiring. I'm worried about the 12 volt wiring from the battery to the inverter. We are talking about 120 amps of DC current: (14 amps x 120 volts)/14 volts = 120 amps.

This calculator says that a 10' cable to the inverter would have to be made of 4/0 wire. Plus, the engine would have to be spinning pretty rapidly in order to generate that 120 amps. So I do not think a 120 volt compressor is a viable alternative.

Grumpin/David - Thanks, but I don't want something that large. Or that heavy. The York compressor would mount on the engine and a tank would go under the passenger's side fender of the bed. Or, a 12v compressor might go to the right of the tool box in the bed and the tank again under the bed. But an engine-driven compressor would take up a lot of extra space as well as add weight.

[ArdWrknTrk]

And this is why I suggested a 14A 120V compressor....

My California Air has sub 8" diameter tanks, will run continuously, and has not yet tripped a breaker in a customer's house.

Wiring would be 14 Ga.

The inverter itself would be handy for other things.

And it sure as heck wouldn't take 20 minutes to air four tires from 15-32 psi.

But hey, make it as complicated as you like!

Jim - I'm not worried about the 120 volt wiring. I'm worried about the 12 volt wiring from the battery to the inverter. We are talking about 120 amps of DC current: (14 amps x 120 volts)/14 volts = 120 amps.

This calculator says that a 10' cable to the inverter would have to be made of 4/0 wire. Plus, the engine would have to be spinning pretty rapidly in order to generate that 120 amps. So I do not think a 120 volt compressor is a viable alternative.

Grumpin/David - Thanks, but I don't want something that large. Or that heavy. The York compressor would mount on the engine and a tank would go under the passenger's side fender of the bed. Or, a 12v compressor might go to the right of the tool box in the bed and the tank again under the bed. But an engine-driven compressor would take up a lot of extra space as well as add weight.

Put the inverter up front....

Just like the alternator only makes what's called for, an inverter only takes what the load calls for.

My compressor runs fine on a 15A 120 circuit. While that may be 150A @ 12V, that's no bigger a cable than your 3G is using.

7" diameter twin tanks also fit within your 8x16x26 envelope.

 

[85lebaront2]

Put the inverter up front....

Just like the alternator only makes what's called for, an inverter only takes what the load calls for.

My compressor runs fine on a 15A 120 circuit. While that may be 150A @ 12V, that's no bigger a cable than your 3G is using.

7" diameter twin tanks also fit within your 8x16x26 envelope.

Very true Jim, and my 3G is an uprated 160 amp unit, and I believe if he uses the PTO function he will be spinning it fast enough to handle the running load, if he uses a nice heavy jumper cable setup like wreckers have for jumping cars, it would more than handle what is needed (Damn engineers, overthinking everything).

My lab manager was like that, his initials are CES, a couple of us referred to him as "Complicate Everything Snyder", it was bad enough that more than once he would blow through drop useless suggestions and blow out. We would go do what we planned, he would come back later and believe we did what he suggested even though it wasn't.

I had a 90 amp side terminal alternator on my 1977 F150 with the 390. A good friend had come by with his 454 Chevy crew cab DRW truck (towed his rail with it), it wouldn't start when he got ready to leave, I hooked my big (Diesel) jumper cables to his from mine, he said give it a couple of mins to charge, I could see and hear the load on the alternator. He said I'll try it, between the nice hefty battery in mine and the alternator it spun like a damn small block, he was incredulous over the speed it cranked at.