Big Blue's Transformation

[ArdWrknTrk]

FWIW, I just looked at the alternator specs on the 2009 Flex:

Bill, you mentioned that you're under driving the 3G on Darth to eliminate chirp.

Do you recall what that rpm ratio is?

[85lebaront2]

Bill, you mentioned that you're under driving the 3G on Darth to eliminate chirp.

Do you recall what that rpm ratio is?

No, I do not, and it's not really underdriving, I just changed the pulley it came with (it was one of Ryan's 160 amp upgrades) to one from a 1994 3.8L Taurus. The Taurus 3.8L 130 amp is a good upgrade from the smaller alternators on the trucks. Darth's original was a 2G 65 amp I believe.

[Gary Lewis]

So 1,680W or 2.25 hp. Gotcha!

Yeah that's beyond nominal rated output and doesn't seem like a problem for these alternators. (at higher rpm)

But it should cycle on and off if you're using it to air up.

Of course you have other loads like ignition, lighting, and possibly radio, blower and wipers, AC clutch.

Is there anything else?

What does your winch draw?

Have you considered one of the updated 3G's?

I know DB, Electric, PA Performance and a few others offer 160 and 200A mods, but Ryan said he would never sell a unit labeled more than 160 because he didn't think they could last under full demand.

Bill - Those numbers are pretty close to what I remember that Jim's DB card shows. IIRC it was 105 at idle and 160 at full tilt. (But my memory's almost as old as yours, so... )

Jim - I haven't found the exact specs for my winch, but what I'm reading says a 12K winch will pull ~400A at full load. And my nephew's amp prob only goes to 200 so I don't think we'll find out for sure about it. But I could fuse if for 500A and be safer than I am now.

As for the air compressor, the way I've used it is to bring it up to 200 PSI as we near the end of the trail, meaning while the engine is above idle. Then I leave it on but with the engine off as I air up. And that doesn't always cause the compressor to kick back on, so the majority of the electrical load is while the engine is running.

As for a replacement alternator, I've certainly looked at DB's 200A unit. And if/when I have to replace this one it'll probably be with something like that. But right now I think this one will work if I'm careful with the load.

And now for the PTO trial. Nada. Ford's Ford Engine Performance - 1996 book provides some info on the PTO circuit, as described here, and I need to study it more as I don't yet understand it. But it clearly shows wiring a switch to the battery and to the PTO wire that goes to the ECU and turning the switch on to enable that function. I'm a little leery of applying 12v directly to an ECU pin so I hooked my incandescent test light to 12v and then touched the end to the wire. Nada. And the light didn't even glow.

So I hooked this laptop up and datalogged while touching the wire with the light and there was no bobble on any parameter that was logged. In fact, Desired RPM stayed at 640 the whole time. AFR never wavered. Nothing.

I guess I should put my DVM to the probe on the test light to see that it stays at battery voltage when I touch the PTO circuit. But I feel pretty sure that it does.

I'll read up on the usage of the PTO function to see if there is something I can monitor that will reflect a change when I touch the wire. But so far nothing happens at all.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Bill - Those numbers are pretty close to what I remember that Jim's DB card shows. IIRC it was 105 at idle and 160 at full tilt. (But my memory's almost as old as yours, so... )

Jim - I haven't found the exact specs for my winch, but what I'm reading says a 12K winch will pull ~400A at full load. And my nephew's amp prob only goes to 200 so I don't think we'll find out for sure about it. But I could fuse if for 500A and be safer than I am now.

As for the air compressor, the way I've used it is to bring it up to 200 PSI as we near the end of the trail, meaning while the engine is above idle. Then I leave it on but with the engine off as I air up. And that doesn't always cause the compressor to kick back on, so the majority of the electrical load is while the engine is running.

As for a replacement alternator, I've certainly looked at DB's 200A unit. And if/when I have to replace this one it'll probably be with something like that. But right now I think this one will work if I'm careful with the load.

And now for the PTO trial. Nada. Ford's Ford Engine Performance - 1996 book provides some info on the PTO circuit, as described here, and I need to study it more as I don't yet understand it. But it clearly shows wiring a switch to the battery and to the PTO wire that goes to the ECU and turning the switch on to enable that function. I'm a little leery of applying 12v directly to an ECU pin so I hooked my incandescent test light to 12v and then touched the end to the wire. Nada. And the light didn't even glow.

So I hooked this laptop up and datalogged while touching the wire with the light and there was no bobble on any parameter that was logged. In fact, Desired RPM stayed at 640 the whole time. AFR never wavered. Nothing.

I guess I should put my DVM to the probe on the test light to see that it stays at battery voltage when I touch the PTO circuit. But I feel pretty sure that it does.

I'll read up on the usage of the PTO function to see if there is something I can monitor that will reflect a change when I touch the wire. But so far nothing happens at all.

I just had a look at DB.

For the 3.0l Taurus. (7" C-C, that your setup takes) they have a 160, 200 & 220A upgrade in addition to the stock 130 and 95 (4 hole, 135mm) output.

Your truck has 1800 CCA with the batteries paired?

Winching is certainly demanding. That is probably a number at full capacity.

Hopefully you'll never find need to hoist Big Blue -and another truck- up into a tree. 😉

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - Those numbers are pretty close to what I remember that Jim's DB card shows. IIRC it was 105 at idle and 160 at full tilt. (But my memory's almost as old as yours, so... )Jim - I haven't found the exact specs for my winch, but what I'm reading says a 12K winch will pull ~400A at full load. And my nephew's amp prob only goes to 200 so I don't think we'll find out for sure about it. But I could fuse if for 500A and be safer than I am now.As for the air compressor, the way I've used it is to bring it up to 200 PSI as we near the end of the trail, meaning while the engine is above idle. Then I leave it on but with the engine off as I air up. And that doesn't always cause the compressor to kick back on, so the majority of the electrical load is while the engine is running.As for a replacement alternator, I've certainly looked at DB's 200A unit. And if/when I have to replace this one it'll probably be with something like that. But right now I think this one will work if I'm careful with the load.And now for the PTO trial. Nada. Ford's Ford Engine Performance - 1996 book provides some info on the PTO circuit, as described here, and I need to study it more as I don't yet understand it. But it clearly shows wiring a switch to the battery and to the PTO wire that goes to the ECU and turning the switch on to enable that function. I'm a little leery of applying 12v directly to an ECU pin so I hooked my incandescent test light to 12v and then touched the end to the wire. Nada. And the light didn't even glow.So I hooked this laptop up and datalogged while touching the wire with the light and there was no bobble on any parameter that was logged. In fact, Desired RPM stayed at 640 the whole time. AFR never wavered. Nothing. :nabble_anim_confused:I guess I should put my DVM to the probe on the test light to see that it stays at battery voltage when I touch the PTO circuit. But I feel pretty sure that it does.I'll read up on the usage of the PTO function to see if there is something I can monitor that will reflect a change when I touch the wire. But so far nothing happens at all.

Here's an excerpt from the 1996 ENGINE PERFORMANCE booklet that shows how to wire the PTO switch and how to perform tests. Please let me know what this suggests to y'all.

 

[Gary Lewis]

I just had a look at DB.

For the 3.0l Taurus. (7" C-C, that your setup takes) they have a 160, 200 & 220A upgrade in addition to the stock 130 and 95 (4 hole, 135mm) output.

Your truck has 1800 CCA with the batteries paired?

Winching is certainly demanding. That is probably a number at full capacity.

Hopefully you'll never find need to hoist Big Blue -and another truck- up into a tree. 😉

Yes, and yes: 1800 CCA, and 400A is at full tilt. So I'd guess that it'll pull ~200A when getting BB out of danger - like we did when in CO last fall.

On the alternators, I'm finding these: 160A for $235; 200A for $259; 220A for $302. Right?

 

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, and yes: 1800 CCA, and 400A is at full tilt. So I'd guess that it'll pull ~200A when getting BB out of danger - like we did when in CO last fall. :nabble_smiley_sad:On the alternators, I'm finding these: 160A for $235; 200A for $259; 220A for $302. Right?

Here's another page from the 1996 ENGINE PERFORMANCE booklet, and I'm trying to figure out what it means. Ideas?

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yes, and yes: 1800 CCA, and 400A is at full tilt. So I'd guess that it'll pull ~200A when getting BB out of danger - like we did when in CO last fall.

On the alternators, I'm finding these: 160A for $235; 200A for $259; 220A for $302. Right?

What is it supposed to suggest?

I mean at first reading it seems sensible troubleshooting.

Do you have an EEC-V breakout box?

Those numbers seem to be what I saw. (I'm not chasing links on my phone at 8%)

But I don't see any details about what components are being used, the weight of copper heatsink boards, etc.

It's not a known quantity like RJM. ☹️

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yes, and yes: 1800 CCA, and 400A is at full tilt. So I'd guess that it'll pull ~200A when getting BB out of danger - like we did when in CO last fall.

On the alternators, I'm finding these: 160A for $235; 200A for $259; 220A for $302. Right?

6,000 lbs (half capacity) is still close to Big Blue's actual weight, isn't it?

My truck is loaded with crap and tare is around 6,600 with full tanks.

I know flatbed winches are hydraulic and much more powerful but you might be amazed just how easy it is to move a 4x4 truck. Even one that is wrapped around a tree or has no wheel that turns.

[85lebaront2]

6,000 lbs (half capacity) is still close to Big Blue's actual weight, isn't it?

My truck is loaded with crap and tare is around 6,600 with full tanks.

I know flatbed winches are hydraulic and much more powerful but you might be amazed just how easy it is to move a 4x4 truck. Even one that is wrapped around a tree or has no wheel that turns.

Darth is 6400 lbs empty (both tanks pretty well on fumes as the gas station is maybe 200 yds from the scale) and I was in the scale house.

With full tanks, he would be 6628 + me = 6878, so pretty close to 7K. Lady at DMV had fun when Karen (late wife) went to register and title him in VA. PO had him titled in Maine and they do not record weights so she looked it up and came up with 5500 lbs and VA regular tags for a pickup go to 7500 GVW, after that you go to T series weight classed plates more $$$$. So they decided that the plates I had on my 1977 F150, that had started out on my 1958 F100 were fine. This is why I still had BSA 15 on Darth and now have 170 4ET Eastern Shore plates.