Big Blue's Transformation

[85lebaront2]

Bill - Thanks for all that work.

But I've not made a decision. I'm planning to go by and look at that Dell and "see about buying it." However, I'm also perusing what other options there are in order to get this done reliably.

Looks like we are both running similar cables from the wide band. Mine is a SABRENT USB 2.0 to Serial (9-Pin) DB-9 RS-232 Converter Cable, Prolific Chipset. And that thing has come and gone, frequently, on both of my computers - one more than the other. And that is whether it is plugged directly into the computer or plugged into a hub. But the thumb drive has also come and gone when I had everything plugged into the 4-port hub.

So I really do want three USB 2.0 ports. That would let me put the wide band, Mongoose, and BE dongle in their own port w/o using a hub, and I could do away with the thumb drive by using just one computer.

The problem I'm finding is that most new laptops don't have three 2.0 ports. Many of the new laptops have gone to USB C or 3.2 ports which will then have to be converted to USB 2.0, and I don't really want converters. So it looks like I have to go to older tech in order to get what I want.

I think I have one or two extra of these older MacBooks (the ones with the Intel processor) that have the dual USB 2.0 ports. They will run Windows quite well in a dual boot configuration.

[Gary Lewis]

I think I have one or two extra of these older MacBooks (the ones with the Intel processor) that have the dual USB 2.0 ports. They will run Windows quite well in a dual boot configuration.

That's an idea, Bill. And if that's an offer I thank you.

But I have a Dell laptop with two USB ports and it won't consistently recognize my serial cable - even though I've uninstalled the device and the drivers and reinstalled several times. And even when it does the Innovate software can't find the wide band, and BE can't either.

But this tablet usually recognizes the serial cable - until the traffic gets heavy during logging. And then, probably since I have four things plugged into a 4-port USB hub, things start getting lost. The wide band stops getting logged every once in a while until I stop and restart the log. And the thumb drive goes away at times, and yesterday that was at the worst possible time - when it was to record the log.

In the light of almost-day, it looks to me like there are multiple problems. One basic one is that I have to have at least two USB ports, one each for the Mongoose and the wide band cables, and preferably three to also accommodate the BE dongle.

But it also looks like I have a problem with the serial cable itself since one computer usually recognizes it and the other rarely does. And the latter is the computer with two USB ports.

So I'm stuck and am ready to make a change in order to be able to move on. But I'm very unsure of what to change to as I'm having such inconsistent results. Janey has suggested that I replace this tablet as it is getting rather old and the kickstand is broken and the cover on the keyboard is peeling. But it works - for everything but BE.

And new laptops don't seem to come with multiple USB 2.0 ports.

Well, I forgot to post this before leaving to go shopping for computers. But we are home now and I bought a 1 year old Dell laptop with 3 USB ports. And, I bought a new serial/USB cable. Turns out the old cable is recognized in two of the three USB ports, but not the third. The new cable is recognized in all three.

So I'm in the process of installing the needed software and will let y'all know how it goes later.

[85lebaront2]

That's an idea, Bill. And if that's an offer I thank you.

But I have a Dell laptop with two USB ports and it won't consistently recognize my serial cable - even though I've uninstalled the device and the drivers and reinstalled several times. And even when it does the Innovate software can't find the wide band, and BE can't either.

But this tablet usually recognizes the serial cable - until the traffic gets heavy during logging. And then, probably since I have four things plugged into a 4-port USB hub, things start getting lost. The wide band stops getting logged every once in a while until I stop and restart the log. And the thumb drive goes away at times, and yesterday that was at the worst possible time - when it was to record the log.

In the light of almost-day, it looks to me like there are multiple problems. One basic one is that I have to have at least two USB ports, one each for the Mongoose and the wide band cables, and preferably three to also accommodate the BE dongle.

But it also looks like I have a problem with the serial cable itself since one computer usually recognizes it and the other rarely does. And the latter is the computer with two USB ports.

So I'm stuck and am ready to make a change in order to be able to move on. But I'm very unsure of what to change to as I'm having such inconsistent results. Janey has suggested that I replace this tablet as it is getting rather old and the kickstand is broken and the cover on the keyboard is peeling. But it works - for everything but BE.

And new laptops don't seem to come with multiple USB 2.0 ports.

Well, I forgot to post this before leaving to go shopping for computers. But we are home now and I bought a 1 year old Dell laptop with 3 USB ports. And, I bought a new serial/USB cable. Turns out the old cable is recognized in two of the three USB ports, but not the third. The new cable is recognized in all three.

So I'm in the process of installing the needed software and will let y'all know how it goes later.

I was meaning to tell you that I occasionally have an issue with my desktop PC losing the keyboard input from the wireless keyboard receiver. Other than the pain of crawling under the desk to unplug and replug the USB cable a few times that fixes it for several months.

Radio Shack Control Contact Cleaner and Lubricant helps a lot and I would imagine Amazon has something similar.

[Gary Lewis]

I was meaning to tell you that I occasionally have an issue with my desktop PC losing the keyboard input from the wireless keyboard receiver. Other than the pain of crawling under the desk to unplug and replug the USB cable a few times that fixes it for several months.

Radio Shack Control Contact Cleaner and Lubricant helps a lot and I would imagine Amazon has something similar.

Bill - In my case it has to do with a bad serial cable - I think. I plugged the old cable into Janey's computer and it initially showed as not working correctly on the right port, but working correctly on the left port. But if you wait a bit the left port refreshes, and refreshes, and refreshes, just as if the connection is going and coming. But plug the new serial cable in and it is rock solid on all ports and all computers.

I think what was happening was that the going and coming, with 3 other devices on the same USB hub, had things so confused that it was dropping the communications. Which is why the Sandisk thumb drive went away at times, and why BE told me I had 10 seconds to put the dongle back in.

Anyway, I've spent an interesting day, but I think I'm "there". I installed BE and all of the prereq's on this new machine and couldn't get BE to run correctly. Turns out it hadn't loaded the strategy files. None.

I appealed to the Core Tuning triumvirate via email and Clint responded to my plea for help. He logged into both the new and old machines and moved the data files from one to the other. BE is up and looking like a champ.

So tomorrow I'll see if I can data log and send the files to Ben. And I'll probably add a bit of idle speed back when the engine is "cold". Plus see what error codes I'm getting now.

But I think I'm going to be happy with this "new" laptop. The three USB ports (two are 3.0 and one is 2.0) are exactly what I wanted, and the processor and screen are quite adequate. So it should replace the old Surface and let me give Janey her computer back.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - In my case it has to do with a bad serial cable - I think. I plugged the old cable into Janey's computer and it initially showed as not working correctly on the right port, but working correctly on the left port. But if you wait a bit the left port refreshes, and refreshes, and refreshes, just as if the connection is going and coming. But plug the new serial cable in and it is rock solid on all ports and all computers.

I think what was happening was that the going and coming, with 3 other devices on the same USB hub, had things so confused that it was dropping the communications. Which is why the Sandisk thumb drive went away at times, and why BE told me I had 10 seconds to put the dongle back in.

Anyway, I've spent an interesting day, but I think I'm "there". I installed BE and all of the prereq's on this new machine and couldn't get BE to run correctly. Turns out it hadn't loaded the strategy files. None.

I appealed to the Core Tuning triumvirate via email and Clint responded to my plea for help. He logged into both the new and old machines and moved the data files from one to the other. BE is up and looking like a champ.

So tomorrow I'll see if I can data log and send the files to Ben. And I'll probably add a bit of idle speed back when the engine is "cold". Plus see what error codes I'm getting now.

But I think I'm going to be happy with this "new" laptop. The three USB ports (two are 3.0 and one is 2.0) are exactly what I wanted, and the processor and screen are quite adequate. So it should replace the old Surface and let me give Janey her computer back.

Took the new computer out to the shop and hooked it up to the truck. Had a minor problem that I hadn't loaded the drivers for the MongoosePro Ford cable that connects from the Windows computer to the OBD-II port. But I have now corrected that and BE has found it.

However the wide band does appear to work. At least Innovate's Logworks finds it, so BE should as well.

And now I've transferred the "payload", which is the list of parameters that are going to be logged, from the tablet to the new laptop. And I've learned how to save the "dashboard" and load it, so I saved the one I'd created on the tablet and loaded it up on the laptop.

And speaking of the dashboard, I'm amazed at some things on it. For instance, I gave BE the transmission gear ratios, the rear axle ratio, and the tire size, and it calculates the gear I'm in based on MPH and RPM. And it is dead on - as soon as I come out on the clutch it nails the gear.

And the iMPG and MPG values are intriguing as well.

But there's plenty of real estate left for other things to be shown. So I want to get the closed/open loop flags displayed so I'll know what mode it is in.

[Gary Lewis]

Took the new computer out to the shop and hooked it up to the truck. Had a minor problem that I hadn't loaded the drivers for the MongoosePro Ford cable that connects from the Windows computer to the OBD-II port. But I have now corrected that and BE has found it.

However the wide band does appear to work. At least Innovate's Logworks finds it, so BE should as well.

And now I've transferred the "payload", which is the list of parameters that are going to be logged, from the tablet to the new laptop. And I've learned how to save the "dashboard" and load it, so I saved the one I'd created on the tablet and loaded it up on the laptop.

And speaking of the dashboard, I'm amazed at some things on it. For instance, I gave BE the transmission gear ratios, the rear axle ratio, and the tire size, and it calculates the gear I'm in based on MPH and RPM. And it is dead on - as soon as I come out on the clutch it nails the gear.

And the iMPG and MPG values are intriguing as well.

But there's plenty of real estate left for other things to be shown. So I want to get the closed/open loop flags displayed so I'll know what mode it is in.

Early report. The good news is that there is no bad news!

The new computer works perfectly. With the O2 sensors unplugged so we were always in open loop I took a spin and logged it easily. Now I'm going to let the exhausts cool a bit, connect the sensors back up, and take the same route while logging.

Then I can see those logs awa the tune file to Ben and he can look it over. Not sure what he is looking for, but that's what he requested so I'm getting it done.

Then I can play with things. Like find out what error codes it is throwing. And maybe add some cold-start R's back in.

[Gary Lewis]

Early report. The good news is that there is no bad news!

The new computer works perfectly. With the O2 sensors unplugged so we were always in open loop I took a spin and logged it easily. Now I'm going to let the exhausts cool a bit, connect the sensors back up, and take the same route while logging.

Then I can see those logs awa the tune file to Ben and he can look it over. Not sure what he is looking for, but that's what he requested so I'm getting it done.

Then I can play with things. Like find out what error codes it is throwing. And maybe add some cold-start R's back in.

Well, the best plans of mice and men... My Garmin Montana 750i came in today, so after the run to log closed loop AFRs I started playing with it. But I did get the two log files, open and closed loop, awa the tune file sent off to Ben. I'm anxious to see what he says.

But I did spend some time looking at the logs, and particularly around the WOT runs I made. In both cases I pulled into the same driveway, turned around in the lot, pulled back onto the highway, and rolled into it in 2nd gear. Rev'd up to ~4000, shifted through 3rd and 4th, and dropped into 5th at 75 MPH. So the load should have been the same.

Here's a screenshot of the section of the log for the WOT run, and yellow is AFR from the wide band, green is throttle position, and red is RPM. (Disregard the spikes in AFR, which appear to be an issue with the sampling time.)

During the 2nd gear run the AFR went down 13.8 to 12.6; in 3rd it went from 13.8 to 12.5; and in 4th from 14.1 to 12.0, and then leveled out between 14.6 and 15.0 for the cruise.

In the closed loop run the 2nd gear AFR went from 14.2 to 12.6; 3rd from 14.0 to 12.5; in 4th from 13.5 to 12.2; and in the subsequent cruise it dithered from 15.2 to 14.2 roughly every second.

[Gary Lewis]

Well, the best plans of mice and men... My Garmin Montana 750i came in today, so after the run to log closed loop AFRs I started playing with it. But I did get the two log files, open and closed loop, awa the tune file sent off to Ben. I'm anxious to see what he says.

But I did spend some time looking at the logs, and particularly around the WOT runs I made. In both cases I pulled into the same driveway, turned around in the lot, pulled back onto the highway, and rolled into it in 2nd gear. Rev'd up to ~4000, shifted through 3rd and 4th, and dropped into 5th at 75 MPH. So the load should have been the same.

Here's a screenshot of the section of the log for the WOT run, and yellow is AFR from the wide band, green is throttle position, and red is RPM. (Disregard the spikes in AFR, which appear to be an issue with the sampling time.)

During the 2nd gear run the AFR went down 13.8 to 12.6; in 3rd it went from 13.8 to 12.5; and in 4th from 14.1 to 12.0, and then leveled out between 14.6 and 15.0 for the cruise.

In the closed loop run the 2nd gear AFR went from 14.2 to 12.6; 3rd from 14.0 to 12.5; in 4th from 13.5 to 12.2; and in the subsequent cruise it dithered from 15.2 to 14.2 roughly every second.

Reviewing this, it looks like the main difference in AFR for the WOT runs between open and closed loop was the starting AFR. In other words, the AFR is virtually the same once the pedal hits the metal. And, as I think about it, that's it should be since at some throttle setting before WOT the system goes into open loop mode.

Since what I've read says 12.6:1 gives best torque, it looks like the fuel part of the system is pretty close. But, there is something in the runs that Ben will probably investigate, and that's the rise of the AFR as the throttle is stabbed and drop as the throttle is opened.

When he was logged into the system the other night he looked at Manifold Size In Liters, which is set to 5.0. He didn't think that was right but when he pulled up another 460 tune he found it at 5.0 as well so he left it alone.

But the explanation in BE for that parameter says:

Actual size of the intake system.

If this value is lower than actual Manifold volume then rich spikes will be seen on Tip Ins and lean spikes on Tip Outs

If this value is Higher than actual Manifold volume then lean spikes will be seen on Tip Ins and rich spikes on Tip Outs

Here's the log for C/L with red arrows showing tip outs and green arrows showing tip ins. Looks to me like that exactly fits the definition of the manifold volume being too high. Does that make sense to y'all?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Reviewing this, it looks like the main difference in AFR for the WOT runs between open and closed loop was the starting AFR. In other words, the AFR is virtually the same once the pedal hits the metal. And, as I think about it, that's it should be since at some throttle setting before WOT the system goes into open loop mode.

Since what I've read says 12.6:1 gives best torque, it looks like the fuel part of the system is pretty close. But, there is something in the runs that Ben will probably investigate, and that's the rise of the AFR as the throttle is stabbed and drop as the throttle is opened.

When he was logged into the system the other night he looked at Manifold Size In Liters, which is set to 5.0. He didn't think that was right but when he pulled up another 460 tune he found it at 5.0 as well so he left it alone.

But the explanation in BE for that parameter says:

Actual size of the intake system.

If this value is lower than actual Manifold volume then rich spikes will be seen on Tip Ins and lean spikes on Tip Outs

If this value is Higher than actual Manifold volume then lean spikes will be seen on Tip Ins and rich spikes on Tip Outs

Here's the log for C/L with red arrows showing tip outs and green arrows showing tip ins. Looks to me like that exactly fits the definition of the manifold volume being too high. Does that make sense to y'all?

You mentioned this parameter before.

Yes, the graph looks exactly like the the manual says it should.

[85lebaront2]

Reviewing this, it looks like the main difference in AFR for the WOT runs between open and closed loop was the starting AFR. In other words, the AFR is virtually the same once the pedal hits the metal. And, as I think about it, that's it should be since at some throttle setting before WOT the system goes into open loop mode.

Since what I've read says 12.6:1 gives best torque, it looks like the fuel part of the system is pretty close. But, there is something in the runs that Ben will probably investigate, and that's the rise of the AFR as the throttle is stabbed and drop as the throttle is opened.

When he was logged into the system the other night he looked at Manifold Size In Liters, which is set to 5.0. He didn't think that was right but when he pulled up another 460 tune he found it at 5.0 as well so he left it alone.

But the explanation in BE for that parameter says:

Actual size of the intake system.

If this value is lower than actual Manifold volume then rich spikes will be seen on Tip Ins and lean spikes on Tip Outs

If this value is Higher than actual Manifold volume then lean spikes will be seen on Tip Ins and rich spikes on Tip Outs

Here's the log for C/L with red arrows showing tip outs and green arrows showing tip ins. Looks to me like that exactly fits the definition of the manifold volume being too high. Does that make sense to y'all?

I still have the powder coated intake and plenum not installed yet. Let me look at the FEZ3 (factory MAF/SEFI/E4OD tune) and see what it shows for intake volume.

Loading FEZ2 and looking at the value, it shows intake manifold size in liters as 5.000 Liters. Since that is the factory tune for a 1996 CA spec 460 with E4OD that is where the value came from.

I guess my question would be is that the entire intake volume including the plenum? Does it also include the intake ports?