Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

That makes sense, Bill.

So here's the mid-day update while I await the delivery of the oil pump drive shaft. I got the dip stick flange installed using The Right Stuff and red Loctite. Fastenal says that torque for a 1/4-20 stainless screw is 64 inch-lbs and Permatex says to put TRS on and torque the fasteners to spec, so that's what I did.

However, the first step was to put the red Loctite in the threads of the flange and then coat the face of the flange with TRS. That way when I put the flange against the inside of the pan TRS came through the screw holes in the pan. So when the screws were torqued down there was TRS under their heads and between the flange and the pan, and red Loctite securing the screws.

So, it wasn't the Bridge Of Sighs after all. And I got across before the oil pump shaft got in.

Well, I proclaim the engine assembled.

UPS delivered the oil pump drive shaft this afternoon after I had everything else ready, so I installed the shaft, pump, and pickup. Then I installed the oil pan gasket and pan - and on the second pass I installed the stiffeners.

But, I'm forgetting one issue I had. The one-piece gasket is set up for all 1/4" fasteners. But this block and the set of fasteners from Huck's engine, which is where the pan came from, has two 5/16" fasteners at the very back. Eli/Smokenchoken had warned me on Saturday that he had the same setup and had to remove the grommet in his gasket.

But I thought I could ream the grommet out and got a fine round file and went to work. And just before I got the first grommet out to a size to allow the bolt to pass it broke out of the gasket. So on the second one I was ever so careful - and it broke out as well.

However, they broke out cleanly w/o hurting the gasket, and since they are right at the place where the gasket's tab goes down into the "RTV here" slot, the gasket can't move. So I put it together with the grommets out and it turned out fine.

And, here are shots of the engine:

[85lebaront2]

Well, I proclaim the engine assembled.

UPS delivered the oil pump drive shaft this afternoon after I had everything else ready, so I installed the shaft, pump, and pickup. Then I installed the oil pan gasket and pan - and on the second pass I installed the stiffeners.

But, I'm forgetting one issue I had. The one-piece gasket is set up for all 1/4" fasteners. But this block and the set of fasteners from Huck's engine, which is where the pan came from, has two 5/16" fasteners at the very back. Eli/Smokenchoken had warned me on Saturday that he had the same setup and had to remove the grommet in his gasket.

But I thought I could ream the grommet out and got a fine round file and went to work. And just before I got the first grommet out to a size to allow the bolt to pass it broke out of the gasket. So on the second one I was ever so careful - and it broke out as well.

However, they broke out cleanly w/o hurting the gasket, and since they are right at the place where the gasket's tab goes down into the "RTV here" slot, the gasket can't move. So I put it together with the grommets out and it turned out fine.

And, here are shots of the engine:

Looks familiar.

[Gary Lewis]

Looks familiar.

Yes, it does look familiar. What pan is that?

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, it does look familiar. What pan is that?

Ok guys, I need some help on a flywheel and clutch decision.

On the flywheel, the one I have is marked D9TE 6380-BB, and that doesn't cross-ref in my books. And it doesn't match either of the #'s from our page on Flywheels. But it is what was on BB when I got him, so works fine. And given the shiny spot on it the clutch was 11 7/8" in diameter, so must have been a 12".

As for the clutch, obviously I'll need a new one as the ZF's input shaft is larger than that of the T19. So the question becomes which one and if that choice will require a new flywheel.

Both Amazon and Luk list two clutch sets for the application:

• LuK 07-910 Clutch Set: And Luk gives these spec's:

  Clutch Plate Facing Outer Diameter: 12-1/4"

  Clutch Disc Diameter (in): 12-5/16"

  Clutch Disc Springs: 5

• LuK 07-092 Clutch Set: But LuK doesn't give any spec's on this, but Summit says it is a 12.250" clutch.

I'm was struggling to tell the difference between the two. The Summit site says that there is a pilot bushing included with the 092 set and it is bronze, but there isn't one included with the higher $ 910 set. So I called Carolina Clutch, who make the LuK products, and was told "The 910 is a heavy duty clutch, with different material on the clutch disc and more clamping load in the pressure plate." And later "If the engine has had anything done to it to increase the output go with the HD clutch." Further "Both sets come with a pilot bearing", although he can't remember if it is bronze or needle. Last "Both clutches are designed to work with a stock flywheel."

So, it seems to me that I'll be fine with the D9 flywheel and should go with the 910 HD clutch set. Thoughts?

 

[grumpin]

Ok guys, I need some help on a flywheel and clutch decision.

On the flywheel, the one I have is marked D9TE 6380-BB, and that doesn't cross-ref in my books. And it doesn't match either of the #'s from our page on Flywheels. But it is what was on BB when I got him, so works fine. And given the shiny spot on it the clutch was 11 7/8" in diameter, so must have been a 12".

As for the clutch, obviously I'll need a new one as the ZF's input shaft is larger than that of the T19. So the question becomes which one and if that choice will require a new flywheel.

Both Amazon and Luk list two clutch sets for the application:

• LuK 07-910 Clutch Set: And Luk gives these spec's:

  Clutch Plate Facing Outer Diameter: 12-1/4"

  Clutch Disc Diameter (in): 12-5/16"

  Clutch Disc Springs: 5

• LuK 07-092 Clutch Set: But LuK doesn't give any spec's on this, but Summit says it is a 12.250" clutch.

I'm was struggling to tell the difference between the two. The Summit site says that there is a pilot bushing included with the 092 set and it is bronze, but there isn't one included with the higher $ 910 set. So I called Carolina Clutch, who make the LuK products, and was told "The 910 is a heavy duty clutch, with different material on the clutch disc and more clamping load in the pressure plate." And later "If the engine has had anything done to it to increase the output go with the HD clutch." Further "Both sets come with a pilot bearing", although he can't remember if it is bronze or needle. Last "Both clutches are designed to work with a stock flywheel."

So, it seems to me that I'll be fine with the D9 flywheel and should go with the 910 HD clutch set. Thoughts?

I would probably go with the heavy duty. Especially with that gruntin’ 460!

[1986F150Six]

So, it seems to me that I'll be fine with the D9 flywheel and should go with the 910 HD clutch set. Thoughts?

Maybe ask the engine builder if he has contacts with someone else with an engine he built to similar power levels? They may have good input regarding their experience.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Maybe ask the engine builder if he has contacts with someone else with an engine he built to similar power levels? They may have good input regarding their experience.

Good idea, David. He said the HD clutch is the way to go. So it is on order.

And while I was at it I asked what his thoughts were about:

• Throttle Body: OEM is fine unless you want it to really rock above 3,500 4,000 rpm

• Injectors: 26# Accel from Summit Racing

[Gary Lewis]

Maybe ask the engine builder if he has contacts with someone else with an engine he built to similar power levels? They may have good input regarding their experience.

Good idea, David. He said the HD clutch is the way to go. So it is on order.

And while I was at it I asked what his thoughts were about:

• Throttle Body: OEM is fine unless you want it to really rock above 3,500 4,000 rpm

• Injectors: 26# Accel from Summit Racing

Well, two steps forward and one backward is still progress. And any progress is good - right, Jim?

Got the clutch kit in from LuK today. The good news is that it came with two pilot bearings, both of which are true bearings and not bushings. (The T19 has a smaller pilot on the input shaft than does the ZF5, and the kit fits both.)

But the bad news is that the pressure plate is bigger than the one that was on Big Blue previously and it won't bolt onto the flywheel. The flywheel I have has three pairs of tapped holes, but the flywheel I need will have four pair of tapped holes, like the one shown below that is now on order from Amazon.

But, it won't be in until Friday the 6th, so I won't get the tranny installed until after then. So I think I'll get the various plugs and taps for the plenums installed while the engine is on the stand. And then install the engine and start working on the front dress. While the serpentine bracketry is clean, I think it may need to be prettier.

[Ford F834]

Well, two steps forward and one backward is still progress. And any progress is good - right, Jim?

Got the clutch kit in from LuK today. The good news is that it came with two pilot bearings, both of which are true bearings and not bushings. (The T19 has a smaller pilot on the input shaft than does the ZF5, and the kit fits both.)

But the bad news is that the pressure plate is bigger than the one that was on Big Blue previously and it won't bolt onto the flywheel. The flywheel I have has three pairs of tapped holes, but the flywheel I need will have four pair of tapped holes, like the one shown below that is now on order from Amazon.

But, it won't be in until Friday the 6th, so I won't get the tranny installed until after then. So I think I'll get the various plugs and taps for the plenums installed while the engine is on the stand. And then install the engine and start working on the front dress. While the serpentine bracketry is clean, I think it may need to be prettier.

Gary the IDI has the same problem. There was, momentarily, a single mass conversion clutch that fit the 6 bolt T19 flywheel... but long since discontinued. Now anyone wanting to ZF swap a 6.9 must buy the 8 bolt clutch and flywheel to go with it

[Gary Lewis]

Gary the IDI has the same problem. There was, momentarily, a single mass conversion clutch that fit the 6 bolt T19 flywheel... but long since discontinued. Now anyone wanting to ZF swap a 6.9 must buy the 8 bolt clutch and flywheel to go with it

Jonathan - I briefly, and only briefly, thought about using the ZF clutch plate with the T19 pressure plate and the original flywheel. Then I realized that I'd have a mismatched clutch and pressure plate. And that down the road when my offspring need to replace that clutch they'll be confused. Further, I remembered that mixing throwout bearings and pressure plates doesn't work very well when I tried it on Dad's truck - and had to pull it apart and replace the throwout bearing. Plus, this pressure plate is much bigger than the one for the T19, and Scott assured me that I need the HD clutch.

So I bit the bullet and ordered the right flywheel.