Big Blue's Transformation

[ArdWrknTrk]

Bill - The schematics below show what I think they are saying for a manual transmission. But I find that really strange since it says that for a manual transmission the ECU pulls the start relay in, and for an automatic the key does.

What am I missing?

Gary, I think what you've missing is that in 20-1 circuit 32 feeds circuit 33, and 33 is /A coming into 20-2 at connector 103F

In 20-2 the jumper becomes 32 again and feeds the starter relay through C103M

Meanwhile, back in 20-1, splice 224 feeds circuit 480 which gives the PCM a crank signal and tells it that the clutch switch is closed so that it is okay to provide spark and fuel.

At least that's how I read it.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, I think what you've missing is that in 20-1 circuit 32 feeds circuit 33, and 33 is /A coming into 20-2 at connector 103F

In 20-2 the jumper becomes 32 again and feeds the starter relay through C103M

Meanwhile, back in 20-1, splice 224 feeds circuit 480 which gives the PCM a crank signal and tells it that the clutch switch is closed so that it is okay to provide spark and fuel.

At least that's how I read it.

Jim - I think you are right! That's what I was missing. Thank you!

Bill - I'm sure that's what you were saying as well, but somehow it wasn't coming across to me. Not your fault, but mine.

So, I guess I need to provide that circuit to the ECU. I'll have to find that pin with the LB/Y wire, add it to the connector, and then find the R/LB wire after the clutch switch and tie it to the LB/Y wire.

Thanks, guys. Not what I wanted to hear, but it is what I needed to here.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Jim - I think you are right! That's what I was missing. Thank you!

Bill - I'm sure that's what you were saying as well, but somehow it wasn't coming across to me. Not your fault, but mine.

So, I guess I need to provide that circuit to the ECU. I'll have to find that pin with the LB/Y wire, add it to the connector, and then find the R/LB wire after the clutch switch and tie it to the LB/Y wire.

Thanks, guys. Not what I wanted to hear, but it is what I needed to here.

Glad you've finally twigged to it.

Sorry that you need to get back into the harness in order to rectify the situation.

I'm a little slow in analyzing situations due to my condition, but somehow I can glance at a schematic and instantly visualize the path.

This is why I hate [solid state] in the EVTM.

There's no way for me to see the logic inside that box.

I also recognize that this means you can't jump the starter relay and get the truck to fire. (you need that extra set of contacts in the safety switch closed to command the pcm)

[Gary Lewis]

Glad you've finally twigged to it.

Sorry that you need to get back into the harness in order to rectify the situation.

I'm a little slow in analyzing situations due to my condition, but somehow I can glance at a schematic and instantly visualize the path.

This is why I hate [solid state] in the EVTM.

There's no way for me to see the logic inside that box.

I also recognize that this means you can't jump the starter relay and get the truck to fire. (you need that extra set of contacts in the safety switch closed to command the pcm)

Yep, I twigged.

But it won't be too hard to fix as everything I need is there under the dash. And, while I'm in there I think I'll fix the bit about BOO to the speed control vs to the ECU. The speed control needs the signal after the clutch switch to know that either the brake or the clutch pedal has been pushed. The ECU wants just the brake, so needs to come off between the brake switch and the clutch switch.

I wonder if I need to put a diode across the starter relay? I don't see one in the EVTM, but surely there's quite a bit of kick from that rather large coil.

And yes, a big block of solid state is hard to figure out. The '96 EVTM does have some comments here and there about what this does or that does, but they are pretty sparse. It would be nice to have a writeup that tells what each signal/pin does.

As for jumping the starter relay to get it started, I see what you mean. Unless you have someone in the cab holding the clutch down the ECU is not going to be happy.

[Machspeed]

Yep, I twigged.

But it won't be too hard to fix as everything I need is there under the dash. And, while I'm in there I think I'll fix the bit about BOO to the speed control vs to the ECU. The speed control needs the signal after the clutch switch to know that either the brake or the clutch pedal has been pushed. The ECU wants just the brake, so needs to come off between the brake switch and the clutch switch.

I wonder if I need to put a diode across the starter relay? I don't see one in the EVTM, but surely there's quite a bit of kick from that rather large coil.

And yes, a big block of solid state is hard to figure out. The '96 EVTM does have some comments here and there about what this does or that does, but they are pretty sparse. It would be nice to have a writeup that tells what each signal/pin does.

As for jumping the starter relay to get it started, I see what you mean. Unless you have someone in the cab holding the clutch down the ECU is not going to be happy.

"And, while I'm in there....."

Funny, I just brought this very topic up in another thread..........it never ends, Gary!

 

[Gary Lewis]

Yep, I twigged.

But it won't be too hard to fix as everything I need is there under the dash. And, while I'm in there I think I'll fix the bit about BOO to the speed control vs to the ECU. The speed control needs the signal after the clutch switch to know that either the brake or the clutch pedal has been pushed. The ECU wants just the brake, so needs to come off between the brake switch and the clutch switch.

I wonder if I need to put a diode across the starter relay? I don't see one in the EVTM, but surely there's quite a bit of kick from that rather large coil.

And yes, a big block of solid state is hard to figure out. The '96 EVTM does have some comments here and there about what this does or that does, but they are pretty sparse. It would be nice to have a writeup that tells what each signal/pin does.

As for jumping the starter relay to get it started, I see what you mean. Unless you have someone in the cab holding the clutch down the ECU is not going to be happy.

"And, while I'm in there....."

Funny, I just brought this very topic up in another thread..........it never ends, Gary!

It has to stop some time, John. I'm getting worn out!

Seriously though, I'd already ID'd a minor problem in the wiring regarding the difference in brake on/off (BOO) to the speed control vs the ECU. But I was reluctant to fix it as it requires getting into the harness, albeit just under the dash. Perhaps the ECU wouldn't really care about that. But now that I have to get in there anyway I "might as well" fix it at the same time.

Having said that, I really do think the light I'm seeing is the end of the tunnel, a very long and dark tunnel.

I'm reminded of the movie Von Ryan's Express where the train went into tunnel after tunnel. That's the way I feel. Big Blue has been apart off and on time after time since I got him, and some of those tunnels have been long and dark. I'm ready to be out in the light!

[salans7]

It has to stop some time, John. I'm getting worn out!

Seriously though, I'd already ID'd a minor problem in the wiring regarding the difference in brake on/off (BOO) to the speed control vs the ECU. But I was reluctant to fix it as it requires getting into the harness, albeit just under the dash. Perhaps the ECU wouldn't really care about that. But now that I have to get in there anyway I "might as well" fix it at the same time.

Having said that, I really do think the light I'm seeing is the end of the tunnel, a very long and dark tunnel.

I'm reminded of the movie Von Ryan's Express where the train went into tunnel after tunnel. That's the way I feel. Big Blue has been apart off and on time after time since I got him, and some of those tunnels have been long and dark. I'm ready to be out in the light!

Ahh, the clutch pedal position circuit. I've been down that road when I manual swapped my 2003 Ranger. Ford trucks with automatics were pre-wired for the switch up until 2003. My truck was the first year that didn't have it, so I had to add it. I moved some pins at the firewall bulkhead, added a couple wires, spliced into some circuits, and then she fired right up on the first try.

You'll be much happier fixing it now, rather than later when you go to start it up and she doesn't do anything.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Ahh, the clutch pedal position circuit. I've been down that road when I manual swapped my 2003 Ranger. Ford trucks with automatics were pre-wired for the switch up until 2003. My truck was the first year that didn't have it, so I had to add it. I moved some pins at the firewall bulkhead, added a couple wires, spliced into some circuits, and then she fired right up on the first try.

You'll be much happier fixing it now, rather than later when you go to start it up and she doesn't do anything.

TBH it will do something. (crank and crank, and crank)

But yeah, better to get out in front than leave it for later.

[Gary Lewis]

TBH it will do something. (crank and crank, and crank)

But yeah, better to get out in front than leave it for later.

Yep, it needs to be fixed now. And it really isn't that big of a deal. Here's what I'm thinking now, and I may tackle it this afternoon after church:

• Pin 64: Find the pin in the bag of removed pins, add it to the connector, and connect it to the R/LB wire coming from Clutch Lockout Switch, which is on the rod coming from the clutch pedal's lever, as shown below.

• Pin 92: This is BOO and the LG wire needs to move from after the Clutch Switch (Not Clutch Lockout) to before it so the ECU knows when the brake is applied, but not when the clutch is engaged. But since the speed control needs to know when the clutch is depressed, the existing connection from after the switch to the speed control needs to stay in place.

And for others reading this later, the Bullnose trucks have two "clutch" switches (as of '84 IIRC). The first is the Clutch Lockout and the other is the Clutch switch. The former is closed when the pedal is depressed so the starter can run, and the latter is closed when the clutch is engaged so the speed control works. Some time after '86 but before '96 the Clutch Pedal Position switch replaced the two separate switches.

Clutch Lockout Switch:

Clutch Switch:

[salans7]

TBH it will do something. (crank and crank, and crank)

But yeah, better to get out in front than leave it for later.

That changed by 2003 because mine won't even send a signal to the starter.