Big Blue's Transformation

[85lebaront2]

Bill - I got your email about the MAF curves, and I'll check that awa the Erols link out in a bit.

And yes, that's the screen and gasket. Cannot find it anywhere and since this one is useable now that I've gotten it cleaned up I'll do just that.

As for what I did today, I got started disassembling what I previously put together. First, I created this "perch" with a piece of channel so I could have a place to support myself when getting to the back of the engine - and I'll have to do a lot of that.

Then I pulled the sealing cups out of the injector ports. Used a sharp tool to punch a hole in the brass cups and then used a #10 sheetmetal screw with several washers on it to bring the cups out. It worked well after I found that combination. A #12 screw was too big and didn't want to start in the size of hole I could make. And one washer wasn't enough to pull the cups out w/o bending, so I wound up with three.

Then I got to looking at the things back towards the firewall and realized how much more work there is to do there. First, in the pic below you can see the grommet where the ~50 wires going to the ECU are supposed to go. But, there's already several things there, inc the aftermarket oil pressure gauge's tube, the wire to the aftermarket coolant temp gauge, and the several wires going to the AFR meter. Obviously the grommet needs to be changed out, but I may be able to run those things along with the wires to the ECU through that grommet.

But circled in the pic above is the oil pressure switch that controls the fuel pump relay. And as I told John, I had a Deja Vu moment. (That's a movie we saw again recently.) I realized we'd had this conversation before, and sure enough we did in this general area. So the pressure switch and most of that wiring comes out.

As said in that post, here's the '96 wiring on the left and the '85 wiring on the right:

And this shows what I plan to do, but w/o taking out the extraneous stuff:

Last, this shows the resulting wiring with the extraneous stuff gone:

Man, working on your knees on top of the radiator support is a huge pain! But I haven't figured out a better way to get in there.

I thought having that link might be useful. The top of his chart is Accel injectors. The reason the fellow told my engine builder to use the Ford Racing 30#/hr injectors was they atomize the fuel better than most others. My personal feelings on Accel mirror yours on Mr. Gasket, ie, not NO but H**L NO on anything I have or work on.

When I was changing to the EFI heads on Darth, I sat a board across the corner of the hood up front, fender end padded. Once I got the head on each side loose, I had another across the area behind the latch to sit on while I pulled the head, swung it around and set it on the board. Then I would get down and lift it off, stick it on end on my HF hand truck and roll it into the garage (I was still in Newport News then). Take one EFI head, load it on the hand truck and roll it out to Darth when it was time to install it.

Fuel pump wiring (a) you do not have the original low pressure pumps that needed the resistance wire, it probably isn't there as it was run along the inner side of the left valve cover on Darth. (b) Run the wire (238 DG/Y) to the directly through the inertia switch where it becomes 37 Y and bypass the resistance wire altogether and go to the tank selector relay with it. The high pressure pumps do not like low voltage.

At least you are in the correct position to pray to the Ford gods kneeling on the radiator support. I saw an idea, a table on something like an engine stand or crane base so you could lie on it and reach right down to the engine/wiring/plumbing.

On the wiring through the grommet, take a piece of a bicycle inner tube that you can stuff the wires through to some sort of plug/socket combination underhood so they can be disconnected for service. Once that is done, cut a hole in the rubber plug and push the sleeve and wires through line everything up, glue the sleeve to the plug, fill the inside next to the wires with RTV and tape the sleeve to the wires (and maybe a short loom) so everything stays where you want it too.

One more thing, I hope you kept the throttle cable from Huck, it fits perfectly and is needed to get around to the right side of the throttle body.

[Gary Lewis]

I thought having that link might be useful. The top of his chart is Accel injectors. The reason the fellow told my engine builder to use the Ford Racing 30#/hr injectors was they atomize the fuel better than most others. My personal feelings on Accel mirror yours on Mr. Gasket, ie, not NO but H**L NO on anything I have or work on.

When I was changing to the EFI heads on Darth, I sat a board across the corner of the hood up front, fender end padded. Once I got the head on each side loose, I had another across the area behind the latch to sit on while I pulled the head, swung it around and set it on the board. Then I would get down and lift it off, stick it on end on my HF hand truck and roll it into the garage (I was still in Newport News then). Take one EFI head, load it on the hand truck and roll it out to Darth when it was time to install it.

Fuel pump wiring (a) you do not have the original low pressure pumps that needed the resistance wire, it probably isn't there as it was run along the inner side of the left valve cover on Darth. (b) Run the wire (238 DG/Y) to the directly through the inertia switch where it becomes 37 Y and bypass the resistance wire altogether and go to the tank selector relay with it. The high pressure pumps do not like low voltage.

At least you are in the correct position to pray to the Ford gods kneeling on the radiator support. I saw an idea, a table on something like an engine stand or crane base so you could lie on it and reach right down to the engine/wiring/plumbing.

On the wiring through the grommet, take a piece of a bicycle inner tube that you can stuff the wires through to some sort of plug/socket combination underhood so they can be disconnected for service. Once that is done, cut a hole in the rubber plug and push the sleeve and wires through line everything up, glue the sleeve to the plug, fill the inside next to the wires with RTV and tape the sleeve to the wires (and maybe a short loom) so everything stays where you want it too.

One more thing, I hope you kept the throttle cable from Huck, it fits perfectly and is needed to get around to the right side of the throttle body.

I understand your position on Accel. Let's hope they are better than last you tried them and that Scotty is right. I've looked at the chart but don't know enough to interpret it. Anything to point out?

Heads - I hope to not have to do that again. Man, those 460 cast iron heads are HEAVY!

On the pump wiring, I think I've already bypassed the resistance wire, but will make for sure. Thanks for the reminder.

As for a table or something, I was thinking about something like that earlier. But after I was up and down like a yoyo getting tools today I came to the conclusion that I want to stand as erect as possible and lean over to reach things. That way if I have to get down to get something it'll be much easier.

The item I ordered is the new one with a few significant changes. First, it has an I-style lower arm instead of two arms. The beauty of that is that it allows you to move sideways much farther as the I-arm doesn't hit the tires as quickly. And, the pad can be stood up in case you are standing on the ladder wanting to reach the top of the vehicle. Last, it has twice as many adjusting holes so you can dial in the height much closer.

Hadn't thought about using a piece of bicycle inner tube, but that makes sense. But am thinking of filling it with The Right Stuff as it foams a bit before setting up. And yes, a connector. However, I need to figure out how many wires I'll have before deciding what one to use. Right now I'm counting 43, but I expect that to go up as I think about it. In fact, I know I need to extend the speed control wiring to go to the newer style unit with the integrated amplifier. So I would be surprised if it didn't come out close to 50.

As for the throttle cable, yes I kept the one from Huck. But I don't think it is in very good shape so may buy a new one. And, as said previously, the cable on the speed control unit isn't good either so I'll be looking for a new one of those - assuming they can be replaced.

[85lebaront2]

I understand your position on Accel. Let's hope they are better than last you tried them and that Scotty is right. I've looked at the chart but don't know enough to interpret it. Anything to point out?

Heads - I hope to not have to do that again. Man, those 460 cast iron heads are HEAVY!

On the pump wiring, I think I've already bypassed the resistance wire, but will make for sure. Thanks for the reminder.

As for a table or something, I was thinking about something like that earlier. But after I was up and down like a yoyo getting tools today I came to the conclusion that I want to stand as erect as possible and lean over to reach things. That way if I have to get down to get something it'll be much easier.

The item I ordered is the new one with a few significant changes. First, it has an I-style lower arm instead of two arms. The beauty of that is that it allows you to move sideways much farther as the I-arm doesn't hit the tires as quickly. And, the pad can be stood up in case you are standing on the ladder wanting to reach the top of the vehicle. Last, it has twice as many adjusting holes so you can dial in the height much closer.

Hadn't thought about using a piece of bicycle inner tube, but that makes sense. But am thinking of filling it with The Right Stuff as it foams a bit before setting up. And yes, a connector. However, I need to figure out how many wires I'll have before deciding what one to use. Right now I'm counting 43, but I expect that to go up as I think about it. In fact, I know I need to extend the speed control wiring to go to the newer style unit with the integrated amplifier. So I would be surprised if it didn't come out close to 50.

As for the throttle cable, yes I kept the one from Huck. But I don't think it is in very good shape so may buy a new one. And, as said previously, the cable on the speed control unit isn't good either so I'll be looking for a new one of those - assuming they can be replaced.

Gary, speed control wiring uses the same circuits as the older ones, same resistors even. It does not connect to the ECM at all. Newer trucks with drive by wire use the throttle actuator for cruise. You need the plug for the later speed control servo and a mating piece for the old plug, or simply splice them. Servo mounts same place as the vacuum one and since the plug should be there it is just a matter of a short jumper harness to make it work You need the emergency cancel switch on the MC, it does the same thing the vacuum dump valves do on the current system. I would look at the clutch safety switch and see if it has a normally closed set of contacts that could be run in series with the hydraulic cancel switch. The way the electronic cruise control works, there is a magnetic clutch that is fed through the cancel switch which opens on brake pressure thus releasing the cable to let the throttle close. Resume re-activates it and reopens the throttle.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, speed control wiring uses the same circuits as the older ones, same resistors even. It does not connect to the ECM at all. Newer trucks with drive by wire use the throttle actuator for cruise. You need the plug for the later speed control servo and a mating piece for the old plug, or simply splice them. Servo mounts same place as the vacuum one and since the plug should be there it is just a matter of a short jumper harness to make it work You need the emergency cancel switch on the MC, it does the same thing the vacuum dump valves do on the current system. I would look at the clutch safety switch and see if it has a normally closed set of contacts that could be run in series with the hydraulic cancel switch. The way the electronic cruise control works, there is a magnetic clutch that is fed through the cancel switch which opens on brake pressure thus releasing the cable to let the throttle close. Resume re-activates it and reopens the throttle.

Bill - I have the plug for the later speed control as part of the '96 harness, and have already confirmed it bolts into the same spot as the earlier one. But I hadn't thought about how to connect the old to the new, and the idea of using an extra old amplifier as a "mating piece" is interesting.

The old speed control amplifier has power, the output of the horn pad switches, and the input from the VSS, as well as the outputs to the speed control actuator. So I can either use the edge of the PCB from a spare amplifier as a connector or hardwire into those circuits to extend them out to the new speed control - via that grommet in the firewall. (The input from the VSS is coming through the firewall somewhere so I could reroute it to the new speed control module if I wanted to make it cleaner.)

Speaking of VSS, do you know if the output of the '86 VSS module is acceptable to the speed control awa the ECU? I don't plan to have a PSOM and was planning to run the output of that VSS directly into both modules.

On the emergency cancel switch on the master cylinder, that's the guy that caused the fires, right? I'm not sure I need that. I'll have Brake On/Off (BOO) as well as the clutch switch. So, do I need the fire hazard?

And you are right about the wiring - although Ford went way out of their way to hide the fact that it is the same. They rotated the schematic 180 and then flipped it as well. Man, until I could see them on one page I couldn't get my head around them. But, they are the same.

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - I have the plug for the later speed control as part of the '96 harness, and have already confirmed it bolts into the same spot as the earlier one. But I hadn't thought about how to connect the old to the new, and the idea of using an extra old amplifier as a "mating piece" is interesting.

The old speed control amplifier has power, the output of the horn pad switches, and the input from the VSS, as well as the outputs to the speed control actuator. So I can either use the edge of the PCB from a spare amplifier as a connector or hardwire into those circuits to extend them out to the new speed control - via that grommet in the firewall. (The input from the VSS is coming through the firewall somewhere so I could reroute it to the new speed control module if I wanted to make it cleaner.)

Speaking of VSS, do you know if the output of the '86 VSS module is acceptable to the speed control awa the ECU? I don't plan to have a PSOM and was planning to run the output of that VSS directly into both modules.

On the emergency cancel switch on the master cylinder, that's the guy that caused the fires, right? I'm not sure I need that. I'll have Brake On/Off (BOO) as well as the clutch switch. So, do I need the fire hazard?

And you are right about the wiring - although Ford went way out of their way to hide the fact that it is the same. They rotated the schematic 180 and then flipped it as well. Man, until I could see them on one page I couldn't get my head around them. But, they are the same.

Bill - Please don't miss the question about the need for the fire-starting switch in the previous post.

But I have another minor issue I just realized - I have the need for three engine coolant temp sensors and only two places for them that I can find.

There's the mandatory ECT sensor for the EFI, the sending unit for the factory gauge, and the one for the aftermarket gauge. But there are only two spots in the intake manifold. as shown below. (Yes, the dizzy is out and the pointer is at 13 BTDC.) And unlike the 351M/400's I can't find an opening in the water pump.

But I did find this Dorman 902-1030 thermostat housing, which is said to fit 460's "Ford 1994-86, Ford 1979-78". But not '96? It sure looks like the one in there but with the extra bungs.

I'm guessing that the later trucks didn't have the bungs. But otherwise wouldn't it fit? The bolt spacing for the thermostat housing appears to be the same between Huck's E8 lower plenum than the F2 I'm using from the '95 F450. And both Dorman and Amazon say that one will fit Huck's plenum, so...?

And yes, I realize that this will mean whatever gauge I put in the thermostat housing, which will probably be the aftermarket one, will read after the thermostat. But I've always wanted one there to let me see that the thermostat is working. For instance, during our last trip it took Big Blue a looooong time to warm up at 15F. So is the 'stat not closing? This would tell me.

[85lebaront2]

Bill - Please don't miss the question about the need for the fire-starting switch in the previous post.

But I have another minor issue I just realized - I have the need for three engine coolant temp sensors and only two places for them that I can find.

There's the mandatory ECT sensor for the EFI, the sending unit for the factory gauge, and the one for the aftermarket gauge. But there are only two spots in the intake manifold. as shown below. (Yes, the dizzy is out and the pointer is at 13 BTDC.) And unlike the 351M/400's I can't find an opening in the water pump.

But I did find this Dorman 902-1030 thermostat housing, which is said to fit 460's "Ford 1994-86, Ford 1979-78". But not '96? It sure looks like the one in there but with the extra bungs.

I'm guessing that the later trucks didn't have the bungs. But otherwise wouldn't it fit? The bolt spacing for the thermostat housing appears to be the same between Huck's E8 lower plenum than the F2 I'm using from the '95 F450. And both Dorman and Amazon say that one will fit Huck's plenum, so...?

And yes, I realize that this will mean whatever gauge I put in the thermostat housing, which will probably be the aftermarket one, will read after the thermostat. But I've always wanted one there to let me see that the thermostat is working. For instance, during our last trip it took Big Blue a looooong time to warm up at 15F. So is the 'stat not closing? This would tell me.

Ok, first, the "fire starter" switch is the safety cancel switch that if the brake light switch doesn't work. It opens the feed to the electric clutch inside the cruise control servo that couples the cable pulley to the internal gear train. When the hydraulic switch opens it dumps the cable back to idle. If you are worried about it, first, there is a recall switch with an included adapter harness, second you can move the power source from direct battery to ignition switched.

On your temperature gauge, yes that thermostat housing should work. Warmup, 720 lbs of cast iron and 20-22 qts of coolant takes a while to warm up at 15° F, believe me, then figure how long it takes to heat up a crew cab. Good side, it also stays warm for a long time.

Trivia item, back in 1958, the MEL engines, at least the 430ci one used 3 thermostats to facilitate warm up. There were two 140° ones in the front of the block and a single 180° one in the intake. Coolant flowed through two large cups in the front of the block, up into the front of the heads first, while the block thermostats stayed closed. The coolant went through the heads, a very small amount was allowed into the intake manifold passages to allow air bleeding. The main flow entered the back of the intake and heated it (no exhaust crossover). This system allowed those huge lumps of iron to warm up fairly quickly by not circulating through the block until the coolant there reached 140°. 430s weighed 740 lbs dry, possibly without exhaust manifolds too.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, first, the "fire starter" switch is the safety cancel switch that if the brake light switch doesn't work. It opens the feed to the electric clutch inside the cruise control servo that couples the cable pulley to the internal gear train. When the hydraulic switch opens it dumps the cable back to idle. If you are worried about it, first, there is a recall switch with an included adapter harness, second you can move the power source from direct battery to ignition switched.

On your temperature gauge, yes that thermostat housing should work. Warmup, 720 lbs of cast iron and 20-22 qts of coolant takes a while to warm up at 15° F, believe me, then figure how long it takes to heat up a crew cab. Good side, it also stays warm for a long time.

Trivia item, back in 1958, the MEL engines, at least the 430ci one used 3 thermostats to facilitate warm up. There were two 140° ones in the front of the block and a single 180° one in the intake. Coolant flowed through two large cups in the front of the block, up into the front of the heads first, while the block thermostats stayed closed. The coolant went through the heads, a very small amount was allowed into the intake manifold passages to allow air bleeding. The main flow entered the back of the intake and heated it (no exhaust crossover). This system allowed those huge lumps of iron to warm up fairly quickly by not circulating through the block until the coolant there reached 140°. 430s weighed 740 lbs dry, possibly without exhaust manifolds too.

Ok, Bill, thanks. I'll order the Dorman thermostat housing, and while I'm at it the recommended 180F 'stat, although a Gates unit instead of Mr. Gasket.

And I have the recall harness on the brake pressure switch, and may have the switch. However, I'd probably be better off to put a new one in. But I like the idea of wiring it to switched power.

As for heating up that lump of cast iron, I expected it to take quite a while. But I was disappointed in how long it took to also warm up the cab. And going from a 195 to a 180 'stat isn't going to help that any.

Three thermostats? I wasn't aware of that, but I guess it worked - when it worked. How often did one of them stick? How hard was it then to figure out which one was bad?

On other news, I got the update from Fedex that my Topside Creeper is to be here tomorrow. And, I discovered that my nephew just bought the same one and likes it a lot. I think it is going to make getting back to the oil pressure switch and the fuel lines a whole bunch easier. And it'll help all the way around getting things in place.

And today I got in the 24" O2 cable extensions as well as the tamper-proof Torx bits. The O2 cable extensions are going to be perfect to make a harness with.

The Torx bits allowed me to remove the MAF sensor from the casting. I wasn't sure I was going to get the screws out due to the corrosion, but with a bit of lube and working them back and forth they came out. Here's a pic showing the corrosion and the fact that there was no seal or sealant of any kind between the sensor and the casting. I expected a gasket or goo.

But I don't like the looks of that corrosion so I used aluminum tape to protect where the sensor fits and blasted the casting. There's a before and after below, but I'll powder coat the thing before installing a sensor to keep the corrosion down.

But speaking of installing a sensor, I just ordered one of the Cardone bare sensors. Talked to my nephew about sensors and he says he's installed a bunch of the Duralast MAF sensors w/o problems, and believes that the Cardone units will be as good.

So at this point I think the only thing I have left to order is probably the brake pressure switch. And probably more wire, shrink tubing, and convolute. Oh yes, probably a connector.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, Bill, thanks. I'll order the Dorman thermostat housing, and while I'm at it the recommended 180F 'stat, although a Gates unit instead of Mr. Gasket.

And I have the recall harness on the brake pressure switch, and may have the switch. However, I'd probably be better off to put a new one in. But I like the idea of wiring it to switched power.

As for heating up that lump of cast iron, I expected it to take quite a while. But I was disappointed in how long it took to also warm up the cab. And going from a 195 to a 180 'stat isn't going to help that any.

Three thermostats? I wasn't aware of that, but I guess it worked - when it worked. How often did one of them stick? How hard was it then to figure out which one was bad?

On other news, I got the update from Fedex that my Topside Creeper is to be here tomorrow. And, I discovered that my nephew just bought the same one and likes it a lot. I think it is going to make getting back to the oil pressure switch and the fuel lines a whole bunch easier. And it'll help all the way around getting things in place.

And today I got in the 24" O2 cable extensions as well as the tamper-proof Torx bits. The O2 cable extensions are going to be perfect to make a harness with.

The Torx bits allowed me to remove the MAF sensor from the casting. I wasn't sure I was going to get the screws out due to the corrosion, but with a bit of lube and working them back and forth they came out. Here's a pic showing the corrosion and the fact that there was no seal or sealant of any kind between the sensor and the casting. I expected a gasket or goo.

But I don't like the looks of that corrosion so I used aluminum tape to protect where the sensor fits and blasted the casting. There's a before and after below, but I'll powder coat the thing before installing a sensor to keep the corrosion down.

But speaking of installing a sensor, I just ordered one of the Cardone bare sensors. Talked to my nephew about sensors and he says he's installed a bunch of the Duralast MAF sensors w/o problems, and believes that the Cardone units will be as good.

So at this point I think the only thing I have left to order is probably the brake pressure switch. And probably more wire, shrink tubing, and convolute. Oh yes, probably a connector.

I ordered the speed control deactivation switch and harness from Amazon. And the TSB about it is here, inc the installation instructions.

When the kit gets in I'll post pics of the original repair harness - which has two replaceable fuses that we are expressly forbidden to replace - and the new harness, which is cleaner and w/o fuses showing. And, oddly enough, the label on my wonky harness says if the fuse blows to install the harness I just ordered.

[85lebaront2]

I ordered the speed control deactivation switch and harness from Amazon. And the TSB about it is here, inc the installation instructions.

When the kit gets in I'll post pics of the original repair harness - which has two replaceable fuses that we are expressly forbidden to replace - and the new harness, which is cleaner and w/o fuses showing. And, oddly enough, the label on my wonky harness says if the fuse blows to install the harness I just ordered.

I got mine from AutoZone in Hampton VA.

Before the question on the brake line gets asked, here's what it goes to:

[Gary Lewis]

I got mine from AutoZone in Hampton VA.

Before the question on the brake line gets asked, here's what it goes to:

You have the later brake master with the switch on the top. Mine's the older one with the switch toward the bottom on the passenger's side.

But is that a trailer brake controller? And Scotchlocks?