Big Blue's Transformation

[85lebaront2]

Bill - I should have said that I'm not planning on having a downstream sensor. It is turned off in the ECU.

And yes, I had gone back to the previous discussions of where #11 is vs #21. But thanks for confirming that. Also, thanks for the locations of C1025 & C1028. I'll try to put mine in rough the same locations. Plus, the pictures help a bunch.

Given that, I ordered the 24" extensions as I'm pretty sure they'll work.

So now I think that all I'm missing is the MAF sensor. And I cannot find the Motorcraft unit I'm looking for, which is the F5OF unit that would be stock.

Here are the #'s you provided, as well as their CFM rating at 5.00 volts. So I'm looking for one of these in a Motorcraft brand. Anyone finds one please let me know.

• F8LF-12B579-AA: 598 CFM

• XL3F-12B579-BA: 582 CFM

• F50F-12B579-AA: 541 CFM

Ok, F5OF is the CA spec 460 truck, was also used on Some mod motors including the V10.

F8LF is from a 1995 Lincoln Continental with a 4.6L DOHC V8. XL3F is from a 1999 F series or Excursion with a V10 and is plastic. FWIW, I found a few F5OF ones on eBay today, used though.

As for the downstream, I'm not either, but the location at the back end of the head pipes is where my wideband is installed.

The Windsor blocks run the dual O2 sensors through the engine harness but the 460s don't, probably due to heat issues.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, F5OF is the CA spec 460 truck, was also used on Some mod motors including the V10.

F8LF is from a 1995 Lincoln Continental with a 4.6L DOHC V8. XL3F is from a 1999 F series or Excursion with a V10 and is plastic. FWIW, I found a few F5OF ones on eBay today, used though.

As for the downstream, I'm not either, but the location at the back end of the head pipes is where my wideband is installed.

The Windsor blocks run the dual O2 sensors through the engine harness but the 460s don't, probably due to heat issues.

Yes, I'm finding used F5OF's, but I have one of those. So I'm not ready to buy one of them as I want new.

But some are selling the sensor itself that you mount on your housing. Have you heard anything about them?

As for the wideband, how badly do I need that? I have one, but its sensor is in the RH/#11 position, and I don't have a bung in the crossover so will have to put one there if I'm going to continue to use the wideband. Did you use yours in the setup of the EFI?

[85lebaront2]

Yes, I'm finding used F5OF's, but I have one of those. So I'm not ready to buy one of them as I want new.

But some are selling the sensor itself that you mount on your housing. Have you heard anything about them?

As for the wideband, how badly do I need that? I have one, but its sensor is in the RH/#11 position, and I don't have a bung in the crossover so will have to put one there if I'm going to continue to use the wideband. Did you use yours in the setup of the EFI?

I was looking at the replacement sensor, it takes a tamperproof T20 to remove/replace, didn't see a Motorcraft one listed though. RA has them.

I used it for verifying the mixture on mine, Adam Marrer highly recommended using one and since I had the existing bung, it wasn't a problem. When I first put the EFI system together I used the 1990 harness and EEC-IV computer and ran it as a bank fired speed density system so just used the 1990 O2 sensor location. It stays installed and I have it connected where the ABS computer plug is for an ignition on source.

 

[Gary Lewis]

I was looking at the replacement sensor, it takes a tamperproof T20 to remove/replace, didn't see a Motorcraft one listed though. RA has them.

I used it for verifying the mixture on mine, Adam Marrer highly recommended using one and since I had the existing bung, it wasn't a problem. When I first put the EFI system together I used the 1990 harness and EEC-IV computer and ran it as a bank fired speed density system so just used the 1990 O2 sensor location. It stays installed and I have it connected where the ABS computer plug is for an ignition on source.

On the wideband, I'll probably weld a bung into the X-pipe and put the sensor there. I have the unit wired and mounted, so might as well use it.

As for the MAF sensor, I didn't notice that it takes a tamper-proof Torx bit. I'll check to see what the screws on the one I have take, and that I have one of those bits.

But yes, RA has several of the sensors themselves, as does Summit and Amazon. But the only "big" name I'm seeing is Cardone, and their 869524 is $75 from RA, and it is in the "daily driver" category. However, in the "economy" category is Cardone's 749524 for $63 after core. It is said to be "remanufactured" while the 869524 is "new".

So, is the remanufactured one just cleaned up and using the original sensor and the new one is a completely new sensor?

Both say they replace several part numbers, including F5OF-AA.

Thoughts?

[85lebaront2]

On the wideband, I'll probably weld a bung into the X-pipe and put the sensor there. I have the unit wired and mounted, so might as well use it.

As for the MAF sensor, I didn't notice that it takes a tamper-proof Torx bit. I'll check to see what the screws on the one I have take, and that I have one of those bits.

But yes, RA has several of the sensors themselves, as does Summit and Amazon. But the only "big" name I'm seeing is Cardone, and their 869524 is $75 from RA, and it is in the "daily driver" category. However, in the "economy" category is Cardone's 749524 for $63 after core. It is said to be "remanufactured" while the 869524 is "new".

So, is the remanufactured one just cleaned up and using the original sensor and the new one is a completely new sensor?

Both say they replace several part numbers, including F5OF-AA.

Thoughts?

Don't know as to what the difference is, Cardone seems to have gotten into manufacturing or sourcing new parts. My only concern would be if the new parts are Chinese.

The sensor is the piece on top and is replaceable as a separate part, the casting from the F5OF one has JAPAN cast into it just below the sensor mounting flange on the side opposite the electrical connector.

[Gary Lewis]

Don't know as to what the difference is, Cardone seems to have gotten into manufacturing or sourcing new parts. My only concern would be if the new parts are Chinese.

The sensor is the piece on top and is replaceable as a separate part, the casting from the F5OF one has JAPAN cast into it just below the sensor mounting flange on the side opposite the electrical connector.

Yup, I need the tamper-proof Torx, so they'll be here tomorrow. And that will let me pull that sensor and at least clean the casting, which is pretty gross. Not sure if I want to order in a new sensor or not.

And, you were right. The '95 was SD/BF. The wiring harnii & this MAF unit came from a CA salvage. Don't understand why there's so much corrosion on this casting, but I can clean it up a bit.

Here are a couple of shots to show that:

[Gary Lewis]

Yup, I need the tamper-proof Torx, so they'll be here tomorrow. And that will let me pull that sensor and at least clean the casting, which is pretty gross. Not sure if I want to order in a new sensor or not.

And, you were right. The '95 was SD/BF. The wiring harnii & this MAF unit came from a CA salvage. Don't understand why there's so much corrosion on this casting, but I can clean it up a bit.

Here are a couple of shots to show that:

Next layer of the onion - the MAF sensor's gasket. The one I have, shown below, is probably serviceable but I'd like to replace it. The ID# on it is F6TX-9E931-AA, but searching for that finds nothing. (You'll get hits if you don't force it to "verbatim", but when you do that you get nada.)

I've asked Numberdummy to see if he can cross-ref it. But meanwhile I'm cleaning this one.

[85lebaront2]

Yup, I need the tamper-proof Torx, so they'll be here tomorrow. And that will let me pull that sensor and at least clean the casting, which is pretty gross. Not sure if I want to order in a new sensor or not.

And, you were right. The '95 was SD/BF. The wiring harnii & this MAF unit came from a CA salvage. Don't understand why there's so much corrosion on this casting, but I can clean it up a bit.

Here are a couple of shots to show that:

Screen and gasket, I didn't use one in my original home built air cleaner setup, I have one now as it came with the CA air filter. My original I made something to seal it, maybe a rubber gasket. The screen may have been a protection for the MAF so it wouldn't get crapped up if the air filter element came apart.

FWIW, since my original MAF came from a Lincoln Continental, no screen, but there was a "funnel" on the inlet side inside the filter. The one I pulled out of the 2003 E250 filter assembly was just held in with two self threading bolts into the plastic disc dividing the filter assembly.

Here is the link to the injector flow tables: http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

[Gary Lewis]

Screen and gasket, I didn't use one in my original home built air cleaner setup, I have one now as it came with the CA air filter. My original I made something to seal it, maybe a rubber gasket. The screen may have been a protection for the MAF so it wouldn't get crapped up if the air filter element came apart.

FWIW, since my original MAF came from a Lincoln Continental, no screen, but there was a "funnel" on the inlet side inside the filter. The one I pulled out of the 2003 E250 filter assembly was just held in with two self threading bolts into the plastic disc dividing the filter assembly.

Here is the link to the injector flow tables: http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

Bill - I got your email about the MAF curves, and I'll check that awa the Erols link out in a bit.

And yes, that's the screen and gasket. Cannot find it anywhere and since this one is useable now that I've gotten it cleaned up I'll do just that.

As for what I did today, I got started disassembling what I previously put together. First, I created this "perch" with a piece of channel so I could have a place to support myself when getting to the back of the engine - and I'll have to do a lot of that.

Then I pulled the sealing cups out of the injector ports. Used a sharp tool to punch a hole in the brass cups and then used a #10 sheetmetal screw with several washers on it to bring the cups out. It worked well after I found that combination. A #12 screw was too big and didn't want to start in the size of hole I could make. And one washer wasn't enough to pull the cups out w/o bending, so I wound up with three.

Then I got to looking at the things back towards the firewall and realized how much more work there is to do there. First, in the pic below you can see the grommet where the ~50 wires going to the ECU are supposed to go. But, there's already several things there, inc the aftermarket oil pressure gauge's tube, the wire to the aftermarket coolant temp gauge, and the several wires going to the AFR meter. Obviously the grommet needs to be changed out, but I may be able to run those things along with the wires to the ECU through that grommet.

But circled in the pic above is the oil pressure switch that controls the fuel pump relay. And as I told John, I had a Deja Vu moment. (That's a movie we saw again recently.) I realized we'd had this conversation before, and sure enough we did in this general area. So the pressure switch and most of that wiring comes out.

As said in that post, here's the '96 wiring on the left and the '85 wiring on the right:

And this shows what I plan to do, but w/o taking out the extraneous stuff:

Last, this shows the resulting wiring with the extraneous stuff gone:

Man, working on your knees on top of the radiator support is a huge pain! But I haven't figured out a better way to get in there.

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - I got your email about the MAF curves, and I'll check that awa the Erols link out in a bit.

And yes, that's the screen and gasket. Cannot find it anywhere and since this one is useable now that I've gotten it cleaned up I'll do just that.

As for what I did today, I got started disassembling what I previously put together. First, I created this "perch" with a piece of channel so I could have a place to support myself when getting to the back of the engine - and I'll have to do a lot of that.

Then I pulled the sealing cups out of the injector ports. Used a sharp tool to punch a hole in the brass cups and then used a #10 sheetmetal screw with several washers on it to bring the cups out. It worked well after I found that combination. A #12 screw was too big and didn't want to start in the size of hole I could make. And one washer wasn't enough to pull the cups out w/o bending, so I wound up with three.

Then I got to looking at the things back towards the firewall and realized how much more work there is to do there. First, in the pic below you can see the grommet where the ~50 wires going to the ECU are supposed to go. But, there's already several things there, inc the aftermarket oil pressure gauge's tube, the wire to the aftermarket coolant temp gauge, and the several wires going to the AFR meter. Obviously the grommet needs to be changed out, but I may be able to run those things along with the wires to the ECU through that grommet.

But circled in the pic above is the oil pressure switch that controls the fuel pump relay. And as I told John, I had a Deja Vu moment. (That's a movie we saw again recently.) I realized we'd had this conversation before, and sure enough we did in this general area. So the pressure switch and most of that wiring comes out.

As said in that post, here's the '96 wiring on the left and the '85 wiring on the right:

And this shows what I plan to do, but w/o taking out the extraneous stuff:

Last, this shows the resulting wiring with the extraneous stuff gone:

Man, working on your knees on top of the radiator support is a huge pain! But I haven't figured out a better way to get in there.

Gave up on the idea of kneeling on the radiator support and ordered the Traxion Topside Creeper NXT. Hopefully it'll be here soon.