Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

Sorry, I did mean "460". But it is DS-II. However, I don't know for sure what is compatible with "aftermarket EFI". I say that because there are systems that have no connection to the ignition, so DS-II would be perfect. But there are some systems that can control the ignition, and I doubt DS-II can be controlled externally.

I've not researched any of those systems, but I think you'll have to check into it and decide. Anyway, this dizzy isn't going anywhere soon, so...

I will look into this further and keep you in mind.

[85lebaront2]

Shaun - I have the dizzy I am taking out of Big Blue that should fit your 400. It is from Scotty and was curved to match this engine, but I don't know if it is on a Motorcraft base. I could make you a good deal on it if you are interested. It may have 5,000 miles on it.

Bill - The '96 CA-spec harness I have connected right up to the sensor that goes in the filter housing. But now that I think about it, I have two sensors that I tagged as coming out of the upper plenum on the F450. And I haven't checked to see if the wiring is the right length to go to the plenum or the air cleaner housing.

So, where in the "intake" are the later sensors? I would think that having the sensor in the plenum would be more accurate, so maybe I want to go that way?

On the MAF, I'm hoping to get a legitimate F5OF as planning to tell the kids this is a '96 engine. But whatever I get I'll make sure to get the right curve in the ECU.

As for the throttle body, you do remember that I have the larger BBK throttle body. Right? (Yes, that's not stock, but no change to the ECU needs to be done to accommodate it - as you know.)

The sensor was moved to the air filter housing on the MAF systems so the EEC knows what the air temperature the MAF is getting so the density being used for the fuel injector pulse is correct. The SD system used the intake manifold location as the value wasn't as critical on those. Fuel injector pulse was based on load (from the MAP), throttle position and rpm.

On either system, idle and cruise are when the O2 sensors control the mixture, warm up and low vacuum are when the MAF or MAP sensor is controlling the mixture values.

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - That makes sense. So the air filter housing sensor is the best, and that's what I have. For others, the sensor looks like the one below.

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - That makes sense. So the air filter housing sensor is the best, and that's what I have. For others, the sensor looks like the one below.

Ok, got a tiny bit done and lots of things on order today. But first, I am NOT finding the MAF sensor, F5OF 12B579-AA. That's the one that was on the CA-spec system, and its the one Bill shows as stock.

What I'm finding is shown on the Rock Auto site here. So, I'm looking for suggestions? Leads? Alternatives?

As for what I got done, not much on the labeling of connectors. What I did find is that I have the harness that goes down to the O2 sensor after the cat, which I'm not going to use. But I don't appear to have the harness to go to the #11 (upstream right) & #21 (upstream left) O2 sensors. Which is a bummer as I guess I'm going to have to find the right connectors and make my own harnii. Anyone know where to get the connectors?

I found the Bosch O2 sensors on the RA site based on this post earlier in this thread. And I thought that maybe by finding them I'd also find the connectors. But neither Amazon, where I ordered the sensors, nor RA list the connectors. And, speaking of Amazon, they say that the Bosch 15716 sensors is the correct one for upstream right, but the Bosch 15717 doesn't fit my truck - although RA specifically says it is the correct one. I hope RA is right.

So today I ordered the engine coolant temp sensor (Motorcraft), the two O2 sensors (Bosch), the intake air temp sensor (ZBN as I couldn't find Motorcraft), the throttle position sensor (Motorcraft), the idle air control (Motorcraft), and air filter (Wix). So save for the MAF sensor, I think everything is on order.

But I got bored beating my head against the harnii, and when I ran into the CCD ignition modules and realized they were both corroded I had to see what I could do. So I fired up the compressor, put a connector on the worst of the two to protect the terminals, and cleaned it up a bit. Here's a before and after:

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, got a tiny bit done and lots of things on order today. But first, I am NOT finding the MAF sensor, F5OF 12B579-AA. That's the one that was on the CA-spec system, and its the one Bill shows as stock.

What I'm finding is shown on the Rock Auto site here. So, I'm looking for suggestions? Leads? Alternatives?

As for what I got done, not much on the labeling of connectors. What I did find is that I have the harness that goes down to the O2 sensor after the cat, which I'm not going to use. But I don't appear to have the harness to go to the #11 (upstream right) & #21 (upstream left) O2 sensors. Which is a bummer as I guess I'm going to have to find the right connectors and make my own harnii. Anyone know where to get the connectors?

I found the Bosch O2 sensors on the RA site based on this post earlier in this thread. And I thought that maybe by finding them I'd also find the connectors. But neither Amazon, where I ordered the sensors, nor RA list the connectors. And, speaking of Amazon, they say that the Bosch 15716 sensors is the correct one for upstream right, but the Bosch 15717 doesn't fit my truck - although RA specifically says it is the correct one. I hope RA is right.

So today I ordered the engine coolant temp sensor (Motorcraft), the two O2 sensors (Bosch), the intake air temp sensor (ZBN as I couldn't find Motorcraft), the throttle position sensor (Motorcraft), the idle air control (Motorcraft), and air filter (Wix). So save for the MAF sensor, I think everything is on order.

But I got bored beating my head against the harnii, and when I ran into the CCD ignition modules and realized they were both corroded I had to see what I could do. So I fired up the compressor, put a connector on the worst of the two to protect the terminals, and cleaned it up a bit. Here's a before and after:

At the risk of having y'all miss the issue of finding the right MAF sensor missed, I do want to discuss the fuel pressure regulator. And at the bottom of this post is a question I need help with.

Scotty said I should get an "Adjustable PFR by aeromotive order for same year mustang as your EFI engines fuel rail is." So I went to the Aeromotive site and realized I have no clue what Mustang uses the fuel rail I'm using. I'm not even sure what engine that rail came off of as I have two rails - the one from Huck, the 1990 F250, and the one from the '95 F450. One takes a 3-screw regulator but the one I went with takes a 2-screw regulator, I believe that one is from the '95 truck.

Aeromotive appears to have two 2-bolt regulators intended to mount on Ford fuel rails:

• Platinum Series P/N 13152: $161

• P/N 13102 Ford Rail Mount EFI Adjustable FPR: $200

Both of these regulators have vacuum/pressure fittings that, presumably, would connect to the intake manifold and cause the pressure to change with the manifold pressure. And the instructions for both of these regulators include this step.

Once the fuel pressure gauge registers fuel system pressure and there are no fuel leaks, start the engine and adjust the regulator to the desired fuel pressure. Turning the adjustment screw clockwise will increase fuel pressure. OEM regulators are typically set at approximately 43 psi, without the vacuum line attached. The fuel pressure adjustment range for this regulator is 35-75 psi and we recommend setting the static pressure (no vacuum) at 48 psi.

So my question is why would I want an adjustable fuel pressure regulator? Scotty said I should adjust the pressure to between 42 and 46 psi, and the Aeromotive instructions say the factory setting is usually 43.

And Scotty says I should tune that setting using a wideband AFR meter. Why? Won't the EFI system adjust the AFR to match whatever set point I program it to, regardless of fuel pressure? Why wouldn't I use a stock regulator ($30 - $55) and let the computer dial the AFR in?

[85lebaront2]

At the risk of having y'all miss the issue of finding the right MAF sensor missed, I do want to discuss the fuel pressure regulator. And at the bottom of this post is a question I need help with.

Scotty said I should get an "Adjustable PFR by aeromotive order for same year mustang as your EFI engines fuel rail is." So I went to the Aeromotive site and realized I have no clue what Mustang uses the fuel rail I'm using. I'm not even sure what engine that rail came off of as I have two rails - the one from Huck, the 1990 F250, and the one from the '95 F450. One takes a 3-screw regulator but the one I went with takes a 2-screw regulator, I believe that one is from the '95 truck.

Aeromotive appears to have two 2-bolt regulators intended to mount on Ford fuel rails:

• Platinum Series P/N 13152: $161

• P/N 13102 Ford Rail Mount EFI Adjustable FPR: $200

Both of these regulators have vacuum/pressure fittings that, presumably, would connect to the intake manifold and cause the pressure to change with the manifold pressure. And the instructions for both of these regulators include this step.

Once the fuel pressure gauge registers fuel system pressure and there are no fuel leaks, start the engine and adjust the regulator to the desired fuel pressure. Turning the adjustment screw clockwise will increase fuel pressure. OEM regulators are typically set at approximately 43 psi, without the vacuum line attached. The fuel pressure adjustment range for this regulator is 35-75 psi and we recommend setting the static pressure (no vacuum) at 48 psi.

So my question is why would I want an adjustable fuel pressure regulator? Scotty said I should adjust the pressure to between 42 and 46 psi, and the Aeromotive instructions say the factory setting is usually 43.

And Scotty says I should tune that setting using a wideband AFR meter. Why? Won't the EFI system adjust the AFR to match whatever set point I program it to, regardless of fuel pressure? Why wouldn't I use a stock regulator ($30 - $55) and let the computer dial the AFR in?

Factory specs are:

KOEO 35 - 45 psi

KOER 30 - 40 psi

The system will adjust the injector pulse width as needed at idle and cruise conditions to achieve the proper AFR for the 14:1 desired. Under low manifold vacuum conditions, high throttle etc. where the O2 sensors are not effective and do not control the mixture. The Programming in the EEC is set to put the mixture at 12.5:1 based on injector size and expected fuel pressure. Raising the fuel pressure does two things, increases the atomization of the fuel and increases the volume delivered. The reason for the vacuum signal is so the differential pressure across the injector to manifold is constant. On my Chrysler, the static pressure is 53 - 57 psi, when the 15 psi boost comes on the resulting pressure is 68 - 72 psi (you wonder why the system wants to leak?).

[Gary Lewis]

Factory specs are:

KOEO 35 - 45 psi

KOER 30 - 40 psi

The system will adjust the injector pulse width as needed at idle and cruise conditions to achieve the proper AFR for the 14:1 desired. Under low manifold vacuum conditions, high throttle etc. where the O2 sensors are not effective and do not control the mixture. The Programming in the EEC is set to put the mixture at 12.5:1 based on injector size and expected fuel pressure. Raising the fuel pressure does two things, increases the atomization of the fuel and increases the volume delivered. The reason for the vacuum signal is so the differential pressure across the injector to manifold is constant. On my Chrysler, the static pressure is 53 - 57 psi, when the 15 psi boost comes on the resulting pressure is 68 - 72 psi (you wonder why the system wants to leak?).

Ok, I think I understand:

• At idle and cruise it doesn't matter about the fuel pressure as the system is in closed-loop and the computer will dial the pulse width in to meet the set point regardless of pressue.

• At WOT, or any time the manifold vacuum is very low 'cause the throttle is very open, the higher pressure helps as the computer is guessing at how long to pulse the injectors. And the constant pressure in the regulator due to the feedback of the vacuum helps the computer with its guess. And that's what you dial in using the AFR meter, not the cruise AFR.

Is that about right?

If so, are you saying I should go with the adjustable FPR? Did you? Will you?

[85lebaront2]

Ok, I think I understand:

• At idle and cruise it doesn't matter about the fuel pressure as the system is in closed-loop and the computer will dial the pulse width in to meet the set point regardless of pressue.

• At WOT, or any time the manifold vacuum is very low 'cause the throttle is very open, the higher pressure helps as the computer is guessing at how long to pulse the injectors. And the constant pressure in the regulator due to the feedback of the vacuum helps the computer with its guess. And that's what you dial in using the AFR meter, not the cruise AFR.

Is that about right?

If so, are you saying I should go with the adjustable FPR? Did you? Will you?

The Chrysler has one, Darth is going to stay with the fixed one.

I would ask Core Tuning for their input, EFI tuning is what they do.

[Gary Lewis]

The Chrysler has one, Darth is going to stay with the fixed one.

I would ask Core Tuning for their input, EFI tuning is what they do.

I don't need Big Blue to be terribly fast. I want him to be rock solid and as economical as a 460 can be. (I know, "460" and "economical" shouldn't be used in the same sentence. )

I'm leaning to going with a Motorcraft CM4760, which is half the price of the Aeromotive. And while it wouldn't be here until February 21 - March 4, that would be ok with me as I won't have the wiring sorted by then.

Speaking of the wiring, there are 62 wires in the bundle 'twixt the underhood wiring and the ECU - all of which have been cut. I think I'll only need ~50 wires, and today I figured out two of them. So I'm 4% there! Boy, this is going to be a pain!

I think I'm going to extend the wires using just one color of wire - like black. It'll still have the proper wire color on each end though, so shouldn't be a problem. And I plan to go with the later speed control unit, which has its own internal electronics, so the ECU can go where the speed control module currently is.

I have one of the later speed controls, but the throttle cable on it isn't good, so I'll need to replace the speed control or the cable itself.

[85lebaront2]

I don't need Big Blue to be terribly fast. I want him to be rock solid and as economical as a 460 can be. (I know, "460" and "economical" shouldn't be used in the same sentence. )

I'm leaning to going with a Motorcraft CM4760, which is half the price of the Aeromotive. And while it wouldn't be here until February 21 - March 4, that would be ok with me as I won't have the wiring sorted by then.

Speaking of the wiring, there are 62 wires in the bundle 'twixt the underhood wiring and the ECU - all of which have been cut. I think I'll only need ~50 wires, and today I figured out two of them. So I'm 4% there! Boy, this is going to be a pain!

I think I'm going to extend the wires using just one color of wire - like black. It'll still have the proper wire color on each end though, so shouldn't be a problem. And I plan to go with the later speed control unit, which has its own internal electronics, so the ECU can go where the speed control module currently is.

I have one of the later speed controls, but the throttle cable on it isn't good, so I'll need to replace the speed control or the cable itself.

If you look at the EEC information I sent you, the circuits and colors are in the spreadsheet. I have a 42 way male/female plug between the front harness and the engine harness so the harnesses can be easily separated during service, like removing and replacing the left valve cover.

If you have the 1996 EVTM, the EEC pinouts and the 42 way (C101) are there, just be careful in reading them, pay attention to the asterisked notes where you find them.

One other item, the ignition circuits are shielded, both from the distributor and the TFI module to the EEC. Those may be fun to locate. Any older truck with the remote TFI module, doesn't have to be a 460, will have it. 1990-96/7 are the years and you want a black module for EEC-V when you get one and bite the bullet and buy Motorcraft on that.