Gary Lewis Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 What I'm saying is that when you measure torque and not stretch or clamping force you are relying in the condition of the threads deep in a hole, and the friction/stiction of the bolt as it goes in. With rod bolts you can measure length with a mic. In blind holes they have force indicating washers that 'bleed' when they reach the right clamping force. Or, you have torque to yield.... A bolt can never be too slippery for torque (unless the figure has been adjusted for unforseen "stuff".) Ok, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Ok, thanks. Engine looks fantastic, BTW! 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpin Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Engine looks fantastic, BTW! 👍 That motor is looking good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Yes, I understand the physics involved. But you aren't saying I damaged the fasteners - right? Basically, the head wasn't clamped as tightly to the block as it should have been. Let's say the bolts averaged 105 ft-lbs (the mid-point between 90 and 120 that I measured) of torque instead of the 140 they were supposed to have. That's exactly 75% of the torque. Anyway, I did some painting today. I'll let it set up for a couple of days, and then on Wednesday I'll install the push rods and shims that came in today. (Tomorrow we are going to go see Ford vs Ferrari and sit in D-Boxes. ) Wow! That looks amazing Gary! Very nice work! I know in the IDI world, that using the correct ARP supplied lube is important to successful head stud installation. Guys who don’t use it, or use something else end up regretting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 Wow! That looks amazing Gary! Very nice work! I know in the IDI world, that using the correct ARP supplied lube is important to successful head stud installation. Guys who don’t use it, or use something else end up regretting it. Thanks, guys! On the lube, I liked the ARP lube's results. Seemed like the bolts went in more smoothly than with lots of engine oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Thanks, guys! On the lube, I liked the ARP lube's results. Seemed like the bolts went in more smoothly than with lots of engine oil. Engine oil doesn't have the EP additives nor the viscosity to stay put when torquing fasteners. That's why I use STP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 Engine oil doesn't have the EP additives nor the viscosity to stay put when torquing fasteners. That's why I use STP. Good point. The oil I used used is a 10W30 synthetic mix, but it took a lot of it to get the bolts to go in smoothly. And then it made a mess. So, I like the ARP stuff. But, I'd recommend a container with a brush as the little packet I had was messy. And that grease is very black and is hard to get off your fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Good point. The oil I used used is a 10W30 synthetic mix, but it took a lot of it to get the bolts to go in smoothly. And then it made a mess. So, I like the ARP stuff. But, I'd recommend a container with a brush as the little packet I had was messy. And that grease is very black and is hard to get off your fingers. Moly + graphite is really messy. But it's a tremendous lube for stuff like that. Honda Moly-60 paste was about the same and came in a cardboard tube much like a mini grease gun tube. Lubriplate has some in squeeze tubes like you'd find contact cement or 3M moulding adhesive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 Moly + graphite is really messy. But it's a tremendous lube for stuff like that. Honda Moly-60 paste was about the same and came in a cardboard tube much like a mini grease gun tube. Lubriplate has some in squeeze tubes like you'd find contact cement or 3M moulding adhesive. Yep, it is messy. So were I to do it again I'd order this, and the text with it says: Because of frictional inconsistencies with oil, moly, and other lubricants it takes multiple cycles of torquing the bolt, loosening it, and tightening it again to obtain the required preload or stretch. Typically, when a fastener is first tightened, friction is at its highest point and the preload value or stretch is low. As the fastener is cycled numerous times the friction decreases and the preload increases. This phenomenon is called "preload scatter." With ARP Ultra Torque assembly lubricant, a fastener need only be torqued once to get within 5 percent of ideal preload, and it remains consistent through all subsequent cycles (from race-prep machining through final assembly). Moreover, given the inconsistencies of ordinary lubes, it is quite possible for adjacent head bolts or studs to have vastly different preloads. This scatter causes bore distortion, hampers piston ring seal, and leads to poor head gasket sealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Yep, it is messy. So were I to do it again I'd order this, and the text with it says: Because of frictional inconsistencies with oil, moly, and other lubricants it takes multiple cycles of torquing the bolt, loosening it, and tightening it again to obtain the required preload or stretch. Typically, when a fastener is first tightened, friction is at its highest point and the preload value or stretch is low. As the fastener is cycled numerous times the friction decreases and the preload increases. This phenomenon is called "preload scatter." With ARP Ultra Torque assembly lubricant, a fastener need only be torqued once to get within 5 percent of ideal preload, and it remains consistent through all subsequent cycles (from race-prep machining through final assembly). Moreover, given the inconsistencies of ordinary lubes, it is quite possible for adjacent head bolts or studs to have vastly different preloads. This scatter causes bore distortion, hampers piston ring seal, and leads to poor head gasket sealing. Agree 100%! And you see that in the first post on this page. I was trying to point out there are shade tree methods vastly superior to engine oil. But if you have the $ & time to get The Right Stuff from ARP, SPS or wherever, go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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