Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

No prob, Jim.

Rattle cans work, and I'll probably use two of them on the block, heads, timing cover, and water pump.

Today I got the new front main seal installed in the timing cover, and then installed the timing cover, water pump, and backing plate. However the stainless bolt kit I got from Scott wasn't 100% correct as three of the bolts were just a bit too short. So tomorrow I'm headed out to find three 5/16-18 x 2 1/2" stainless bolts so I can put the sealant on all of the bolts and torque everything down. But, it is all snugged down now so the RTV on the gaskets will have a chance to set up overnight and it'll be ready for finishing up in the morn.

And, while I'm out I'll get more RTV as well as more of the Dupli-Color engine primer and DE 1606 Ford Dark Blue engine paint. Then, with the water pump torqued down I can put the "hatchet" on which will protect the front main seal, lay on the extra intake and old valve covers, and paint the engine.

Then, while that is drying I'll mark the new damper every 1/4 turn so I can easily find TDC on each cylinder when I'm shimming the push rods.

[1986F150Six]

Today I got the new front main seal installed in the timing cover, and then installed the timing cover, water pump, and backing plate. However the stainless bolt kit I got from Scott wasn't 100% correct as three of the bolts were just a bit too short. So tomorrow I'm headed out to find three 5/16-18 x 2 1/2" stainless bolts so I can put the sealant on all of the bolts and torque everything down. But, it is all snugged down now so the RTV on the gaskets will have a chance to set up overnight and it'll be ready for finishing up in the morn.

And, while I'm out I'll get more RTV as well as more of the Dupli-Color engine primer and DE 1606 Ford Dark Blue engine paint. Then, with the water pump torqued down I can put the "hatchet" on which will protect the front main seal, lay on the extra intake and old valve covers, and paint the engine.

Then, while that is drying I'll mark the new damper every 1/4 turn so I can easily find TDC on each cylinder when I'm shimming the push rods.

Your work is impressive!

[85lebaront2]

Bolt torque can be an elusive value. I learned that and demonstrated in graphically using our Skidmore-Wilhelm bolt stress tester (for those who haven't seen one, it is a hollow center hydraulic load cell which I calibrated on one of our universal test machines.

I was tasked with verifying that the proper load was being applied to some 5/8-11 CRES bolt/nut pairs on our DI water piping running almost the entire length of the yard. The contractor was using soap and water (tap water which is chlorinated and not a good idea on 300 series CRES). The preferred per our Nuclear inspection department (QID) is Neolube, graphite in isopropyl alcohol, the correct procedure per QID instructions is to coat the fastener parts, allow coat to dry and repeat. The shocker came when I left the Neolube wet, I think I got around 70 ft-lbs and the bolt just stretched apart. We did motor oil, several types of grease, the soap and water and Neolube. The result variance was a real eye opener.

This is why I read the manufacturer's procedure and adhere to it religiously even if it doesn't seem right. It is also the reason that with the "torque to yield" bolts and angle of rotation is the preferred method.

One other interesting gem, we had a high pressure accumulator, just a 3' length of some extremely heavy wall pipe, two end rings welded to it with an O-ring groove in each, two end plates of 3" thick HY-80 steel. Each end was held on with 16 3/4" B-7 studs with hardened flat washers and high strength nuts. We were having a problem with it blowing out the O-rings on one very high pressure test. Our lab mechanical engineer was pulling his hair out over it, he was having the technician torque the nuts to 80% of yield. I was sitting in his office and we were discussing this issue, I asked had he run the static load value per stud for the pressure and area involved. Answer was no, should I? I suggested it might be an idea, result load (PSI X area) was high enough to more than exceed 70% yield, which meant we were at 150% yield. He backed the torque level down, and no more problems.

[Gary Lewis]

Bolt torque can be an elusive value. I learned that and demonstrated in graphically using our Skidmore-Wilhelm bolt stress tester (for those who haven't seen one, it is a hollow center hydraulic load cell which I calibrated on one of our universal test machines.

I was tasked with verifying that the proper load was being applied to some 5/8-11 CRES bolt/nut pairs on our DI water piping running almost the entire length of the yard. The contractor was using soap and water (tap water which is chlorinated and not a good idea on 300 series CRES). The preferred per our Nuclear inspection department (QID) is Neolube, graphite in isopropyl alcohol, the correct procedure per QID instructions is to coat the fastener parts, allow coat to dry and repeat. The shocker came when I left the Neolube wet, I think I got around 70 ft-lbs and the bolt just stretched apart. We did motor oil, several types of grease, the soap and water and Neolube. The result variance was a real eye opener.

This is why I read the manufacturer's procedure and adhere to it religiously even if it doesn't seem right. It is also the reason that with the "torque to yield" bolts and angle of rotation is the preferred method.

One other interesting gem, we had a high pressure accumulator, just a 3' length of some extremely heavy wall pipe, two end rings welded to it with an O-ring groove in each, two end plates of 3" thick HY-80 steel. Each end was held on with 16 3/4" B-7 studs with hardened flat washers and high strength nuts. We were having a problem with it blowing out the O-rings on one very high pressure test. Our lab mechanical engineer was pulling his hair out over it, he was having the technician torque the nuts to 80% of yield. I was sitting in his office and we were discussing this issue, I asked had he run the static load value per stud for the pressure and area involved. Answer was no, should I? I suggested it might be an idea, result load (PSI X area) was high enough to more than exceed 70% yield, which meant we were at 150% yield. He backed the torque level down, and no more problems.

All - I did my running around and got the bolts and paint, as well as more RTV. Am now painting the engine and will post pics later when done.

David - Thanks! I'm having fun.

Bill - Interesting story. I'm sure you know a lot more about torque than I do, but I have found that it takes a lot of oil to get consistent results. On the other hand, just a bit of the ARP grease gets the same results.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

All - I did my running around and got the bolts and paint, as well as more RTV. Am now painting the engine and will post pics later when done.

David - Thanks! I'm having fun.

Bill - Interesting story. I'm sure you know a lot more about torque than I do, but I have found that it takes a lot of oil to get consistent results. On the other hand, just a bit of the ARP grease gets the same results.

And hence the reason for a specialty thread lube for high torque fasteners....

[85lebaront2]

All - I did my running around and got the bolts and paint, as well as more RTV. Am now painting the engine and will post pics later when done.

David - Thanks! I'm having fun.

Bill - Interesting story. I'm sure you know a lot more about torque than I do, but I have found that it takes a lot of oil to get consistent results. On the other hand, just a bit of the ARP grease gets the same results.

The question still is, how much stress/strain did you put on the bolts? We had a Raymond Bolt-Master that I would have loved to grab when it was decided to ditch it. The thing was an ultrasonic bolt stretch measuring device. The engineer who came in to demo and train us on it just happened to have an Oldsmobile 5.7L Diesel. He showed us some engine running data on the inside head bolt between #5 & 7 cylinders. The load on the bolt was incredible, the bolts themselves were stronger than Gr8, closest thing I saw to it was FFS-86 socket head cap screws.

[Gary Lewis]

The question still is, how much stress/strain did you put on the bolts? We had a Raymond Bolt-Master that I would have loved to grab when it was decided to ditch it. The thing was an ultrasonic bolt stretch measuring device. The engineer who came in to demo and train us on it just happened to have an Oldsmobile 5.7L Diesel. He showed us some engine running data on the inside head bolt between #5 & 7 cylinders. The load on the bolt was incredible, the bolts themselves were stronger than Gr8, closest thing I saw to it was FFS-86 socket head cap screws.

I put the stress or strain generated by between 90 and 120 ft-lbs of torque on them. In other words, less than that generated by the normal 140 ft-lbs.

I say that because while I put 140 ft-lbs of torque into the bolts, the fact that they weren't well lubed means that something between 20 and 50 ft-lbs of torque was being used to overcome the extra friction. And that comes from having marked where the bolts were and then tightening them to that point after they were lubed. It took between 90 and 120 ft-lbs to get them back to that point. Then I tightened them to 140 and the bolts turned an additional 1/8 to 3/16's turn.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I put the stress or strain generated by between 90 and 120 ft-lbs of torque on them. In other words, less than that generated by the normal 140 ft-lbs.

I say that because while I put 140 ft-lbs of torque into the bolts, the fact that they weren't well lubed means that something between 20 and 50 ft-lbs of torque was being used to overcome the extra friction. And that comes from having marked where the bolts were and then tightening them to that point after they were lubed. It took between 90 and 120 ft-lbs to get them back to that point. Then I tightened them to 140 and the bolts turned an additional 1/8 to 3/16's turn.

Strain is HUGE compared to torque!

Remember, it's not torque.

The thread is a ramp, and that incline is what's pulling on the bolt.

Oil means there's less torque needed to overcome striction (the cracking popping noises you heard) but strain is dictated by the ratio of the length of wrench you use to the radius of the bolt, X the ramp you would have if you unwrapped, or unrolled, the thread.

That's why fine pitch fasteners generate more clamping force for a given bolt diameter. 🤓

*Stiction*. ,,,, Grumble, grumble, 'old man shaking fist'

[Gary Lewis]

Strain is HUGE compared to torque!

Remember, it's not torque.

The thread is a ramp, and that incline is what's pulling on the bolt.

Oil means there's less torque needed to overcome striction (the cracking popping noises you heard) but strain is dictated by the ratio of the length of wrench you use to the radius of the bolt, X the ramp you would have if you unwrapped, or unrolled, the thread.

That's why fine pitch fasteners generate more clamping force for a given bolt diameter. 🤓

*Stiction*. ,,,, Grumble, grumble, 'old man shaking fist'

Yes, I understand the physics involved. But you aren't saying I damaged the fasteners - right?

Basically, the head wasn't clamped as tightly to the block as it should have been. Let's say the bolts averaged 105 ft-lbs (the mid-point between 90 and 120 that I measured) of torque instead of the 140 they were supposed to have. That's exactly 75% of the torque.

Anyway, I did some painting today. I'll let it set up for a couple of days, and then on Wednesday I'll install the push rods and shims that came in today. (Tomorrow we are going to go see Ford vs Ferrari and sit in D-Boxes. )

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yes, I understand the physics involved. But you aren't saying I damaged the fasteners - right?

Basically, the head wasn't clamped as tightly to the block as it should have been. Let's say the bolts averaged 105 ft-lbs (the mid-point between 90 and 120 that I measured) of torque instead of the 140 they were supposed to have. That's exactly 75% of the torque.

Anyway, I did some painting today. I'll let it set up for a couple of days, and then on Wednesday I'll install the push rods and shims that came in today. (Tomorrow we are going to go see Ford vs Ferrari and sit in D-Boxes. )

What I'm saying is that when you measure torque and not stretch or clamping force you are relying in the condition of the threads deep in a hole, and the friction/stiction of the bolt as it goes in.

With rod bolts you can measure length with a mic.

In blind holes they have force indicating washers that 'bleed' when they reach the right clamping force.

Or, you have torque to yield....

A bolt can never be too slippery for torque (unless the figure has been adjusted for unforseen "stuff".)