Big Blue's Transformation

[grumpin]

Well, Scott just showed up with some tow eyes. Think they'll be stout enough?

Bolted to the side of the frame and welded both to angle that's bolted to the bottom of the frame as well to the bumper, they should suffice.

Stout!

[Gary Lewis]

Stout!

Yep! They are 1" thick. Scott doesn't think the holes are precise so I may get to drill them, but that will be easy. Probably couldn't have gotten the material for the $64 they cost.

[swampedout]

Yep! They are 1" thick. Scott doesn't think the holes are precise so I may get to drill them, but that will be easy. Probably couldn't have gotten the material for the $64 they cost.

He must be giving you the "Last years prices" deal.

Those things will help take some weight off the front end. I think this truck is going to look great with tjis bumper.

My wife had an old Pathfinder with a swing out tire carrier that had a wire actuated latch assembly like you use to pop the hood. It was a cool idea but something about it failed over time. Didnt keep that vehicle too long so I dont remember the details.

[Gary Lewis]

He must be giving you the "Last years prices" deal.

Those things will help take some weight off the front end. I think this truck is going to look great with tjis bumper.

My wife had an old Pathfinder with a swing out tire carrier that had a wire actuated latch assembly like you use to pop the hood. It was a cool idea but something about it failed over time. Didnt keep that vehicle too long so I dont remember the details.

Yes, prices have really gone up on everything, inc steel. Scott said they've gone up about 3x. But he found a guy with the 1" plate laying around, so we got a wonderful deal. And he's going to work on my materials list and see what other "drop offs" he can find.

For instance, I need 10" of 4" x 1/8" strap, and 15" of 2 1/2" x 1/4" strap. And 41" of 2 1/2 x 3 1/2 tubing with a 3/16" wall. So if I have to buy 8' of those it is going to really start adding up.

On the latch, I think I like having the spring-loaded pin that will latch in whenever the swingarm is closed. So when I ordered the pivot from RuffStuff yesterday I asked about theirs. But it only comes with a T handle and where I'm going to put it the handle could hit the tailgate if left pointing forward. So I'm looking for one with a round handle. However, if all else fails the handle does unscrew on the RuffStuff latch, so I could replace it.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, prices have really gone up on everything, inc steel. Scott said they've gone up about 3x. But he found a guy with the 1" plate laying around, so we got a wonderful deal. And he's going to work on my materials list and see what other "drop offs" he can find.

For instance, I need 10" of 4" x 1/8" strap, and 15" of 2 1/2" x 1/4" strap. And 41" of 2 1/2 x 3 1/2 tubing with a 3/16" wall. So if I have to buy 8' of those it is going to really start adding up.

On the latch, I think I like having the spring-loaded pin that will latch in whenever the swingarm is closed. So when I ordered the pivot from RuffStuff yesterday I asked about theirs. But it only comes with a T handle and where I'm going to put it the handle could hit the tailgate if left pointing forward. So I'm looking for one with a round handle. However, if all else fails the handle does unscrew on the RuffStuff latch, so I could replace it.

Ok, here's a mockup of one of the tow eyes on Dad's truck. (Not taking the bumper off of Big Blue at the moment.) Things to comment on here is that the holes line up, but the tow eye is ~3/16" too low as it sits that much below the bottom of the frame. And at first blush it appears that the frame heights between Dad's truck and Big Blue are the same at that point - 5 11/16".

So the question is what to do about that because there's a piece of angle that is to be welded to the bottom of the tow eye and bolted to the bottom of the frame, as shown below. (And, there's a cross piece that is welded to both the front of the receiver as well as to the angle, so the angle needs to be there.)

Given that I'm looking for ways to solve the problem. One is to drill the holes in the tow eyes a bit lower. I'm going to have to drill them anyway because they aren't truly round, as you can see in the pic below. They measure .558 top to bottom and .595" side/side. So I could enlarge to .750 keeping the top of the holes in the same spot and lowering the bottom by ~.2", which would raise the tow eye the same amount.

And yes, I'd have to enlarge the holes in the frame, but just the rear holes as the front bumper holes already measure .775". So I'd just drill the rear holes out from the current .585" to .750".

Another approach is to replace the angle with strap, as shown below. On the left you can see how it was designed with the bottom of the tow eye flush with the frame and angle used. On the right you can see that the tow eye extends below the frame and a piece of strap has replaced the angle. It would be welded top and bottom to the tow eye, and since the frame is well rounded at that bottom corner I think there's plenty of room.

I'm leaning to this approach, but would like your comments and thoughts, please? http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/uploads/6/5/8/7/65879365/waving_orig.gif

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, here's a mockup of one of the tow eyes on Dad's truck. (Not taking the bumper off of Big Blue at the moment.) Things to comment on here is that the holes line up, but the tow eye is ~3/16" too low as it sits that much below the bottom of the frame. And at first blush it appears that the frame heights between Dad's truck and Big Blue are the same at that point - 5 11/16".

So the question is what to do about that because there's a piece of angle that is to be welded to the bottom of the tow eye and bolted to the bottom of the frame, as shown below. (And, there's a cross piece that is welded to both the front of the receiver as well as to the angle, so the angle needs to be there.)

Given that I'm looking for ways to solve the problem. One is to drill the holes in the tow eyes a bit lower. I'm going to have to drill them anyway because they aren't truly round, as you can see in the pic below. They measure .558 top to bottom and .595" side/side. So I could enlarge to .750 keeping the top of the holes in the same spot and lowering the bottom by ~.2", which would raise the tow eye the same amount.

And yes, I'd have to enlarge the holes in the frame, but just the rear holes as the front bumper holes already measure .775". So I'd just drill the rear holes out from the current .585" to .750".

Another approach is to replace the angle with strap, as shown below. On the left you can see how it was designed with the bottom of the tow eye flush with the frame and angle used. On the right you can see that the tow eye extends below the frame and a piece of strap has replaced the angle. It would be welded top and bottom to the tow eye, and since the frame is well rounded at that bottom corner I think there's plenty of room.

I'm leaning to this approach, but would like your comments and thoughts, please? http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/uploads/6/5/8/7/65879365/waving_orig.gif

Well, before the onslaught of comments on the previous post, let me post again and ask basically the same question but in a different way.

Why? Because I did what I said I wasn't going to do and pulled the bumper off of Big Blue and tried the tow eyes on there. And I learned some things that are important to this discussion.

First, the factory bumper bolts are 14 x 2.00 MM, which is important as the front of the two holes on each side has a welded-on nut on the inside of the frame. (Dad's truck just has a .775" hole there.) So I can't move the holes up on the frame.

Next, the tow eyes do hang down 1/4" below the frame on Big Blue just like on Dad's truck, so the original plan of welding a piece of angle to the bottom of the tow eyes and then bolting that angle to the frame won't work as it'll be 1/4" below the frame.

You can see that here as the trailer hitch bracket that's bolted to the frame is 1/4" thick and the bottom of the tow eye is flush with it:

In addition, the angle would hit the spring hangers before getting to the front bolt in the frame, as shown below:

Given that, I've come up with Plan B and Plan C, as shown below. In B the strap would have to be trimmed to miss the spring hanger, but that wouldn't be the case in C. On the other hand, B is stronger than C as the strap can be welded on both sides of the tow eyes instead of just having a bead top and bottom where it butts up to the tow eye in C.

Thoughts?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Well, before the onslaught of comments on the previous post, let me post again and ask basically the same question but in a different way.

Why? Because I did what I said I wasn't going to do and pulled the bumper off of Big Blue and tried the tow eyes on there. And I learned some things that are important to this discussion.

First, the factory bumper bolts are 14 x 2.00 MM, which is important as the front of the two holes on each side has a welded-on nut on the inside of the frame. (Dad's truck just has a .775" hole there.) So I can't move the holes up on the frame.

Next, the tow eyes do hang down 1/4" below the frame on Big Blue just like on Dad's truck, so the original plan of welding a piece of angle to the bottom of the tow eyes and then bolting that angle to the frame won't work as it'll be 1/4" below the frame.

You can see that here as the trailer hitch bracket that's bolted to the frame is 1/4" thick and the bottom of the tow eye is flush with it:

In addition, the angle would hit the spring hangers before getting to the front bolt in the frame, as shown below:

Given that, I've come up with Plan B and Plan C, as shown below. In B the strap would have to be trimmed to miss the spring hanger, but that wouldn't be the case in C. On the other hand, B is stronger than C as the strap can be welded on both sides of the tow eyes instead of just having a bead top and bottom where it butts up to the tow eye in C.

Thoughts?

So you mocked this up on an '81 frame instead of the '86?

I would go with plan B

It's a bumper...

While the tow eyes & straps are WAY stronger than the frame of the truck already, you need to stop 'improving' it and just get the bumper mounts done.

Focus on how you're going to get the swing gate fixed to the bumper.

I know I need to use my gate way too much to deal with that, but our modes of operation and intended use are very different.

[Gary Lewis]

So you mocked this up on an '81 frame instead of the '86?

I would go with plan B

It's a bumper...

While the tow eyes & straps are WAY stronger than the frame of the truck already, you need to stop 'improving' it and just get the bumper mounts done.

Focus on how you're going to get the swing gate fixed to the bumper.

I know I need to use my gate way too much to deal with that, but our modes of operation and intended use are very different.

I mocked it up on the '81, but then worried that the '85 might be different so I pulled the bumper off of Big Blue. As I told Janey, I really didn't want to do that but Scott is shopping for materials and this changes the materials list. And I'm glad I did 'cause I discovered some differences.

So I wrote it up on here and sent him a text with a link to it and asked him to take a look at his convenience. The decision of which plan to use will determine what material to add to the list. For instance, we could just add 30" to the 15" of 2 1/2" strap, but that changes what he's looking for dramatically.

As for the swing arm, the pivot is on order, but I suspect you are talking about the "bolt" to secure it for travel and the spring latch for the safety. Yes, I need to get that worked out, but I was going to put it off until after the show and the trip to Ouray. But do you have suggestions?

[Machspeed]

I mocked it up on the '81, but then worried that the '85 might be different so I pulled the bumper off of Big Blue. As I told Janey, I really didn't want to do that but Scott is shopping for materials and this changes the materials list. And I'm glad I did 'cause I discovered some differences.

So I wrote it up on here and sent him a text with a link to it and asked him to take a look at his convenience. The decision of which plan to use will determine what material to add to the list. For instance, we could just add 30" to the 15" of 2 1/2" strap, but that changes what he's looking for dramatically.

As for the swing arm, the pivot is on order, but I suspect you are talking about the "bolt" to secure it for travel and the spring latch for the safety. Yes, I need to get that worked out, but I was going to put it off until after the show and the trip to Ouray. But do you have suggestions?

Gary, I'm thinking when done that bumper could pull a C5 Galaxy!

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, I'm thinking when done that bumper could pull a C5 Galaxy!

I was thinking KC-135, but we are on the same page.

I am paranoid about safety, and there is no way I want that trailer hitch to be anything less than what I have now, which is a commercial hitch. It has six 1/2" bolts holding it to the frame while the to-be bumper/hitch will have eight 14mm bolts which are .55" in diameter. So we are gaining a bit there.

And to Jim's question about how to secure the swing arm, I'm back to this approach. The pin latch may be this 1/2" Dia Plunger Premium 'POP' Pull Pin from Amazon, although I'm open to others. Not shown, but it'll ride up a piece of UHMW plastic and drop into a hole in it as a safety latch.

But the bolt will take a bit more thinking. It is a 1/2-13 bolt with a nut Loctited on it to prevent it from coming out, and just enough threads protruding to fully engage a nut welded to the bumper. However, I think I want there to be a top and bottom support so the bolt won't have a chance of coming into the nut at an angle, so will redesign that. But, I want it to be open so that there's no way for water to be getting into the swing arm past the bolt.

Anyway, that's where I am at the moment, but welcome all suggestions, comments, and upgrades.