Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, I think we are together on this. The plan could be changed to beef up the joint, but the way it is designed should easily be strong enough. And if I start changing anything there's a ripple effect that I might not catch until the last minute, so I think I'll stay with what I have - at least until Scott reviews it.

 

One thing that isn't in the materials list but should be is strap with which to close the ends of the bumper. (At what point in size does "strap" become "plate"?) I'll need a foot of 4" wide strap to do that. And how do you position something like that in order to tack it? Can't wait to see a master at work.

 

And speaking of "plate", I've spec'd the tire carrier piece as being 1/4" thick. It is a 9" diameter disc and I'll weld a stud into it at the top on which I'll "hang" the spare tire and then run a couple of bolts into the disc in the other holes. (I'm thinking it'll be a lot easier when holding that heavy spare up to just align one hole.) But is 1/4" thick enough? There will be a lot of force on that plate as we bounce down the road and I sure don't want it to bend.

Had a good conversation with Scott after church today. First, he asked questions about the dimensions shown on the page I gave him of the tow eyes, and I discovered that there are extraneous dimensions in that view. But he said that when I get it nailed down he's going to send the drawing out and have the tow eyes laser cut. Man, that will make it sooooo easy! :nabble_anim_jump:Next we discussed the material thicknesses of the spare tire carrier plate, the round disk in the drawing below. I had it spec'd at 1/4" and he said he'd go 3/8" given that the spare tire will be hung from it and trying to move when going down the road.Which lead to the thickness of the tubing for the swing arm. He suggested either 3/16 or 1/4" due to the twisting effect of the tire, which is hung off the back of the swing arm on that 9" piece of tubing, as shown below. After a bit of discussion we settled on 3/16". And now I'm wondering about placing a gusset under that piece of round tubing?Last, he suggested that instead of welding the two allthreads to the angled part of the swing arm, which are there to hold the Hilift jack on, that we weld nuts to the arm so the allthread can be changed out if needed. I like that idea a bunch!THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN!

[ArdWrknTrk]

Had a good conversation with Scott after church today. First, he asked questions about the dimensions shown on the page I gave him of the tow eyes, and I discovered that there are extraneous dimensions in that view. But he said that when I get it nailed down he's going to send the drawing out and have the tow eyes laser cut. Man, that will make it sooooo easy!

Next we discussed the material thicknesses of the spare tire carrier plate, the round disk in the drawing below. I had it spec'd at 1/4" and he said he'd go 3/8" given that the spare tire will be hung from it and trying to move when going down the road.

Which lead to the thickness of the tubing for the swing arm. He suggested either 3/16 or 1/4" due to the twisting effect of the tire, which is hung off the back of the swing arm on that 9" piece of tubing, as shown below. After a bit of discussion we settled on 3/16". And now I'm wondering about placing a gusset under that piece of round tubing?

Last, he suggested that instead of welding the two allthreads to the angled part of the swing arm, which are there to hold the Hilift jack on, that we weld nuts to the arm so the allthread can be changed out if needed. I like that idea a bunch!

THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN!

Okay, I managed to get logged in on my old tablet, because my phone still won't work on the forum....

Laser cut is great if you can do it. I just know (around here) there are 10x as many waterjet or plasma cut shops as ones with a laser with 1" capability.

Of course, he is in the trade and has a better picture of what is available to him.

If Scott really thinks you need that thickness of steel to hold up, it is something he deals with every day.

When experts offer advice it is best to listen.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Okay, I managed to get logged in on my old tablet, because my phone still won't work on the forum....

Laser cut is great if you can do it. I just know (around here) there are 10x as many waterjet or plasma cut shops as ones with a laser with 1" capability.

Of course, he is in the trade and has a better picture of what is available to him.

If Scott really thinks you need that thickness of steel to hold up, it is something he deals with every day.

When experts offer advice it is best to listen.

Glad you got back in, Jim. Hope you can get the phone fixed.

Yes, I feel like he's an expert in the field as he deals with welds and materials daily. But, I'm going to bounce the idea of a gusset off of him and see what he thinks. I think it'll significantly reduce any tendency for the spare tire to take the mount down or up, and I think that will reduce the need for material in the swing arm.

And thinking of the round tube that supports the spare tire, I found a piece of 2" with .204" walls in my stash, so I could use that. But since there's to be a tube slid inside that one to hold the license tag and a tag/3rd brake light, I'd like to go with .125 wall since I have some 1 3/4" tube that would fit inside. Perhaps with a big gusset?

[Gary Lewis]

Glad you got back in, Jim. Hope you can get the phone fixed.

Yes, I feel like he's an expert in the field as he deals with welds and materials daily. But, I'm going to bounce the idea of a gusset off of him and see what he thinks. I think it'll significantly reduce any tendency for the spare tire to take the mount down or up, and I think that will reduce the need for material in the swing arm.

And thinking of the round tube that supports the spare tire, I found a piece of 2" with .204" walls in my stash, so I could use that. But since there's to be a tube slid inside that one to hold the license tag and a tag/3rd brake light, I'd like to go with .125 wall since I have some 1 3/4" tube that would fit inside. Perhaps with a big gusset?

Well, there is a bit of news to pass on.

First, it took the pros only a few seconds to find the problems on Big Blue's A/C system. Both the suction and discharge hoses have leaks. So a new "assembly", as it it called since those two hoses share the manifold at the compressor, is on order and is expected to be here in 3 days or so.

And I got a text from Welderscott saying that his first try on having the tow eyes made wanted $125/ea. So he kept looking and found a customer that had some 1" plate in stock and wanted $32/ea and he told him to do it. So we are on our way!

Meanwhile I tried to relearn TurboCAD and got far enough I was able to add a gusset to the spare tire support arm, as shown below. Given that, I've asked Scott if he thinks that might let us downsize the wall thickness of the swing arm pieces to 1/8" from 3/16".

As drawn that's an 8" right triangle of 1/4" plate, but I actually have some 3/16" plate so I'll probably use that. I'm thinking that is long enough to nicely distribute all of the up and down loads as we hit bumps and the heavy tire tries to move, preventing those loads from trying to twist the 2" tubing that supports the tire from the grasp of the square tubing.

And speaking of the square tubing, currently I have a bizarre interface between the vertical and angled pieces of tubing. I need to clean that up in the drawing, and I think the solution is to put the 2" hole in the vertical piece and cut the angled piece to hit the side of the vertical piece. But I'll work on that and come back with some views of that to help us all understand what I'm talking about.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Well, there is a bit of news to pass on.

First, it took the pros only a few seconds to find the problems on Big Blue's A/C system. Both the suction and discharge hoses have leaks. So a new "assembly", as it it called since those two hoses share the manifold at the compressor, is on order and is expected to be here in 3 days or so.

And I got a text from Welderscott saying that his first try on having the tow eyes made wanted $125/ea. So he kept looking and found a customer that had some 1" plate in stock and wanted $32/ea and he told him to do it. So we are on our way!

Meanwhile I tried to relearn TurboCAD and got far enough I was able to add a gusset to the spare tire support arm, as shown below. Given that, I've asked Scott if he thinks that might let us downsize the wall thickness of the swing arm pieces to 1/8" from 3/16".

As drawn that's an 8" right triangle of 1/4" plate, but I actually have some 3/16" plate so I'll probably use that. I'm thinking that is long enough to nicely distribute all of the up and down loads as we hit bumps and the heavy tire tries to move, preventing those loads from trying to twist the 2" tubing that supports the tire from the grasp of the square tubing.

And speaking of the square tubing, currently I have a bizarre interface between the vertical and angled pieces of tubing. I need to clean that up in the drawing, and I think the solution is to put the 2" hole in the vertical piece and cut the angled piece to hit the side of the vertical piece. But I'll work on that and come back with some views of that to help us all understand what I'm talking about.

Back on the tablet because my phone won't play nice with the forum.

And today my truck won't work. 🙁

Glad Scott could find someone to cut those lugs inexpensively!

If the vertical and sloped piece are the same why not make a rounded, folded joint?

No sharp point, no locus for stress...

With a huge gusset like that and good fusion is there really a reason to penetrate through the top of the triangle?

[Gary Lewis]

Back on the tablet because my phone won't play nice with the forum.

And today my truck won't work. 🙁

Glad Scott could find someone to cut those lugs inexpensively!

If the vertical and sloped piece are the same why not make a rounded, folded joint?

No sharp point, no locus for stress...

With a huge gusset like that and good fusion is there really a reason to penetrate through the top of the triangle?

Bummer on your truck. What seems to be the problem?

And yes, $64 is going to be very well spent on those tow eyes. I'm thrilled. Now I just have to nail down the rest of the material list to get things on order.

But, tell me more about the "rounded, folded joint"? Are you saying to cut a wedge out of a piece of tubing and then fold it and weld it up? And when you ask "is there really a reason to penetrate through the top of the triangle" do you mean the triangle of the square tubing? Are you suggesting that the tubing be placed on the top of the folded joint as well as the gusset and welded there?

If I understand what you are saying correctly the joint would look like this? And then the tubing would be on top? If this is true then I have two problems with that: First, I've found that kind of joint hard to do. Second, and more importantly, it would put the top of the tube almost 2" above the angled piece, and the jack that goes on the angled piece would hit it.

But maybe I misunderstood? Try me again?

What I'm thinking is shown below. The square tubing is 2 1/2" and if it has 1/8" walls then a 2" hole will go through w/o cutting the walls. So the tube could be welded front and back.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Bummer on your truck. What seems to be the problem?

And yes, $64 is going to be very well spent on those tow eyes. I'm thrilled. Now I just have to nail down the rest of the material list to get things on order.

But, tell me more about the "rounded, folded joint"? Are you saying to cut a wedge out of a piece of tubing and then fold it and weld it up? And when you ask "is there really a reason to penetrate through the top of the triangle" do you mean the triangle of the square tubing? Are you suggesting that the tubing be placed on the top of the folded joint as well as the gusset and welded there?

If I understand what you are saying correctly the joint would look like this? And then the tubing would be on top? If this is true then I have two problems with that: First, I've found that kind of joint hard to do. Second, and more importantly, it would put the top of the tube almost 2" above the angled piece, and the jack that goes on the angled piece would hit it.

But maybe I misunderstood? Try me again?

What I'm thinking is shown below. The square tubing is 2 1/2" and if it has 1/8" walls then a 2" hole will go through w/o cutting the walls. So the tube could be welded front and back.

I really don't like the idea of a point sticking up, like your first mitre.

(Yes, I realize the tire will be far bigger, but weren't we just discussing getting impaled on the hood latch?)

The second drawing looks a LOT better to me.

I was thinking something like this:

where an outside radius is formed with the box itself.

With the tire tube concentric within that radius.

But hey, I have crazy visions of what would appeal to me, were I the one making something....

As for my truck, I'll make a whydtytt post.

It's really got me in a jam right now.

[Gary Lewis]

I really don't like the idea of a point sticking up, like your first mitre.

(Yes, I realize the tire will be far bigger, but weren't we just discussing getting impaled on the hood latch?)

The second drawing looks a LOT better to me.

I was thinking something like this:

where an outside radius is formed with the box itself.

With the tire tube concentric within that radius.

But hey, I have crazy visions of what would appeal to me, were I the one making something....

As for my truck, I'll make a whydtytt post.

It's really got me in a jam right now.

Jim! Wow! I had no clue what you meant, but that's cool! However, that looks like a whole lot of work. On the other hand, it would be interesting. But, his joint was at 90 degrees and mine is not that at all, and it is dictated to some extent by the length of the jack - I want to keep the jack low so the angle has to be shallow. (And, I don't have one of those welders so can't do that. )

Here are two other joints I've thought of. The one on the right is what I'd originally planned, but it is complex and takes a lot of welding. The one on the left is easier than the one on the right and takes less welding. Or maybe I should say less critical welding.

But both of those require cutting an un-balanced hole in the end of the tubing and I worry that doing so would cause the hole saw to deflect. And that could mean that the front and back cuts aren't exactly where they should be and then the round tube would be at an angle.

So I'm leaning to the one above. Simple joints. Less welding, little of which is critical. And balanced holes to cut. However, it requires welding on an end cap or using a plastic cap.

Thoughts?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Jim! Wow! I had no clue what you meant, but that's cool! However, that looks like a whole lot of work. On the other hand, it would be interesting. But, his joint was at 90 degrees and mine is not that at all, and it is dictated to some extent by the length of the jack - I want to keep the jack low so the angle has to be shallow. (And, I don't have one of those welders so can't do that. )

Here are two other joints I've thought of. The one on the right is what I'd originally planned, but it is complex and takes a lot of welding. The one on the left is easier than the one on the right and takes less welding. Or maybe I should say less critical welding.

But both of those require cutting an un-balanced hole in the end of the tubing and I worry that doing so would cause the hole saw to deflect. And that could mean that the front and back cuts aren't exactly where they should be and then the round tube would be at an angle.

So I'm leaning to the one above. Simple joints. Less welding, little of which is critical. And balanced holes to cut. However, it requires welding on an end cap or using a plastic cap.

Thoughts?

I guess it's not too complex if you can cut it barefoot with an angle grinder, and knock the waste out with a stick?

And I don't think it could only be made with right angles, but the layout would definitely be a bit more complex.

If you unfolded your second drawing from 4:30 to 6:00 you get an idea what the cope would look like.

I think weld prep needs to be good but there has to be some gap or bevel for full penetration (unless it's a pure fusion TIG weld or a keyhole laser weld)

I'm always using a file or grinder to get the fit up I want. And that depends on the material.

My personal experience says stay far away from plastic caps on something ferrous that is going to be outside.

Also provide a drain hole(s) in each member and spray or flood the inside with oil if you want it to last long term.

Condensation will find a way in. Rust will form. And if condensation builds up enough, frozen water will expand and cause all kind of trouble.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Well, there is a bit of news to pass on.

First, it took the pros only a few seconds to find the problems on Big Blue's A/C system. Both the suction and discharge hoses have leaks. So a new "assembly", as it it called since those two hoses share the manifold at the compressor, is on order and is expected to be here in 3 days or so.

And I got a text from Welderscott saying that his first try on having the tow eyes made wanted $125/ea. So he kept looking and found a customer that had some 1" plate in stock and wanted $32/ea and he told him to do it. So we are on our way!

Meanwhile I tried to relearn TurboCAD and got far enough I was able to add a gusset to the spare tire support arm, as shown below. Given that, I've asked Scott if he thinks that might let us downsize the wall thickness of the swing arm pieces to 1/8" from 3/16".

As drawn that's an 8" right triangle of 1/4" plate, but I actually have some 3/16" plate so I'll probably use that. I'm thinking that is long enough to nicely distribute all of the up and down loads as we hit bumps and the heavy tire tries to move, preventing those loads from trying to twist the 2" tubing that supports the tire from the grasp of the square tubing.

And speaking of the square tubing, currently I have a bizarre interface between the vertical and angled pieces of tubing. I need to clean that up in the drawing, and I think the solution is to put the 2" hole in the vertical piece and cut the angled piece to hit the side of the vertical piece. But I'll work on that and come back with some views of that to help us all understand what I'm talking about.

I failed to comment on your AC news.

So the lines leak under pressure but not under the vacuum you pulled?

Glad you'll have it together for the show!