Big Blue's Transformation

[ArdWrknTrk]

This one is hardly a "survivor". Save for the body it comes closer to being a '95 than an '85.

And yes, that piece of aluminum would be clunky, but a V-REST is similar. And once you drill it out you can't go back.

I'm not saying I'll make that, but it is what came to mind to allow tuning the speed control. Perhaps I'll get lucky and nail it on an early try, but I'm doubting it.

As for buying a 2020, I have a 2015 and there's not enough difference to make it worthwhile to change. But, Big Blue is "close" and dialing in the speed control will bring it that much closer. Besides, the vacuum restriction was your idea!

'95 is still 25 years old. 💡

Ford never engineered anything to last that long.

It doesn't fit their business model, nor reflect the state of engineering available even a decade later.

"Survivor" in that it's entirely obsolete by any metric, but still functional.

Can you still use a slide rule in 2020?

Sure!

....But you can't use it to figure a tool path and email that STL or DWG to Shapeways and have that part made.

Could you still use a ox cart to haul coal to Newcastle?

Yes.

But the steam engine obsoleted that mule two centuries ago.

Big Blue is that ox.

You asked our thoughts on how to make your vacuum servo less "abrupt"

By slowing the rate at which the vacuum is able to act upon that vacuum motor, it is damped.

I would say that a tidbit of plastic in a vacuum line is going to create negligible strain.

While a couple of brass nipples, held back to back by an 1 1/2" piece of threaded aluminum bouncing around has a lot more inertia.

No, you can't 'go back' with a drill bit, but I'd say if you sneak up on the speed control's response time you might find the answer you're looking for.

Or, you could use little piece of nylon or delrin rod, put the barbs directly on it and drill 90% of the way through.

Then tap it for a jet.

Not much weight, not multiple pieces, no need to disassemble the darn thing, nor make sure the chamber is sealed or able to unscrew.

By under tapping you take advantage of the plastic nature of the material to create a perfect seal and self locking in one swoop, with no moving parts.

In fact, only one part.... The barbed jet holder you wanted in the first place. 💡

 

[Gary Lewis]

'95 is still 25 years old. 💡

Ford never engineered anything to last that long.

It doesn't fit their business model, nor reflect the state of engineering available even a decade later.

"Survivor" in that it's entirely obsolete by any metric, but still functional.

Can you still use a slide rule in 2020?

Sure!

....But you can't use it to figure a tool path and email that STL or DWG to Shapeways and have that part made.

Could you still use a ox cart to haul coal to Newcastle?

Yes.

But the steam engine obsoleted that mule two centuries ago.

Big Blue is that ox.

You asked our thoughts on how to make your vacuum servo less "abrupt"

By slowing the rate at which the vacuum is able to act upon that vacuum motor, it is damped.

I would say that a tidbit of plastic in a vacuum line is going to create negligible strain.

While a couple of brass nipples, held back to back by an 1 1/2" piece of threaded aluminum bouncing around has a lot more inertia.

No, you can't 'go back' with a drill bit, but I'd say if you sneak up on the speed control's response time you might find the answer you're looking for.

Or, you could use little piece of nylon or delrin rod, put the barbs directly on it and drill 90% of the way through.

Then tap it for a jet.

Not much weight, not multiple pieces, no need to disassemble the darn thing, nor make sure the chamber is sealed or able to unscrew.

By under tapping you take advantage of the plastic nature of the material to create a perfect seal and self locking in one swoop, with no moving parts.

In fact, only one part.... The barbed jet holder you wanted in the first place. 💡

Jim - You've come up with essentially the same solution I did later last night, although with different material. My thought was to measure the hose and select a metal rod that is slightly bigger. Drill it as you suggested, assuming the hose is bigger than the OD of the jet, and if not drill it to create an orifice.

And since we are dealing with vacuum I'm not sure that much in the way of barbs is needed. For long term use maybe some, but for testing I'm thinking that a smooth surface will seal well enough to find out if it is going to work and get close on the orifice. In fact, looking at the pic again Ford didn't put barbs on the fittings on the black plastic part.

Not sure I have any plastic rod that big, so will see what I have in the way of rod and either tap one for a jet or make some of various sizes this afternoon and go for a test.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Jim - You've come up with essentially the same solution I did later last night, although with different material. My thought was to measure the hose and select a metal rod that is slightly bigger. Drill it as you suggested, assuming the hose is bigger than the OD of the jet, and if not drill it to create an orifice.

And since we are dealing with vacuum I'm not sure that much in the way of barbs is needed. For long term use maybe some, but for testing I'm thinking that a smooth surface will seal well enough to find out if it is going to work and get close on the orifice. In fact, looking at the pic again Ford didn't put barbs on the fittings on the black plastic part.

Not sure I have any plastic rod that big, so will see what I have in the way of rod and either tap one for a jet or make some of various sizes this afternoon and go for a test.

Vacuum doesn't need much in the way of 'barb' but it would like a shoulder, and a 'bubble' to make sure it is a tight seal.

[Gary Lewis]

Vacuum doesn't need much in the way of 'barb' but it would like a shoulder, and a 'bubble' to make sure it is a tight seal.

I'll see what I can do. But "bubbles" aren't easy on a lathe. Barbs aren't easy, but are much easier than bubbles.

All of this reminds me of the Dana cruise control I put on something, probably the Audi 100 LS, way back when. It was vacuum operated much like this one and had orifices to allow you dial in how aggressive you wanted it to be. Was the best cruise control I've ever had.

But, I think making this mod this one can be tamed as well.

The only other thing I'm thinking about doing is to put the VSS whatchamacallit at the transducer and running wires up to the connector to the speed control, thereby bypassing the long speedometer cable and the speed sensor. I'm still thinking there is some roughness in the speedo cable and wondering if that is inducing some speed variations. Maybe being gear-driven would smooth it out?

[Gary Lewis]

I'll see what I can do. But "bubbles" aren't easy on a lathe. Barbs aren't easy, but are much easier than bubbles.

All of this reminds me of the Dana cruise control I put on something, probably the Audi 100 LS, way back when. It was vacuum operated much like this one and had orifices to allow you dial in how aggressive you wanted it to be. Was the best cruise control I've ever had.

But, I think making this mod this one can be tamed as well.

The only other thing I'm thinking about doing is to put the VSS whatchamacallit at the transducer and running wires up to the connector to the speed control, thereby bypassing the long speedometer cable and the speed sensor. I'm still thinking there is some roughness in the speedo cable and wondering if that is inducing some speed variations. Maybe being gear-driven would smooth it out?

Well, I think it is going to work. The ID of that hose on the speed control's servo is .328". So it'll be a snug fit on a 3/8" bolt's shank which measures .369".

A Holley jet measures .375" OD, so that's not going to work. But a Carterbrock jet is .303" OD and uses 5/16-24 threads.

And the ID of the various vacuum ports on the servo measure from .200 on the vacuum inlet to .222 on the control outlet. That means I can use a 3/8" bolt's shank and drill it through .250", which won't be a restriction to the flow. Then I'll drill the last 3/8" or so .272 ("I" drill bit), and tap it 5/16-24. Run a jet in it and put it in the middle of the hose.

[Nothing Special]

This thing has what???

Three analog inputs and probably operates at a Mhz, if that?

I'm sorry.

Go buy a 2020 truck.

Enjoy and appreciate this one for what it is. A survivor of days long past.

(Before I say this I'll say that I know that Jim and Gary, while they may "bicker like two old women", do respect each other. I respect both as well, so this is not intended in any way to be an attack against Jim.)

I'm with Gary here, and I applaud his efforts to make Big Blue drive the way he wants. I had a 2002 F-350 and a 2008 F-250. Both of those trucks were much more refined and much more capable than trucks from the '80s and '90s. But I hated them. I'm not saying that they were bad trucks, and it wasn't anything particularly objective that was wrong with them. I just hated them. I went back to a '97 truck that I really like and something huge is going to have to change before I could see myself owning a truck newer than that.

I know Gary isn't as much of a dinosaur as I am. He does have (and seems to like) a 2015 truck. But he does appreciate the character of older trucks as well. And that character doesn't have to include "unpleasant to drive". So again, I applaud his efforts to make Big Blue be the best of all possible worlds.

And for what it's worth (which is quite a lot actually), on Christmas night Lesley and I went to a drive-thru light display. The guy who took our ticket going in said "hey, I like your truck!" And the "kid" at the Pronto Pup stand at the end asked what year it was. When I said 1997 he said "cool!" (the truck is probably older than he was). And it's not like my truck is in mint condition, or special in any way other than being an old truck. That's the kind of character that a 2020 truck will never have.

New trucks have a lot going for them. And for people who want them, great. But I could afford to buy a 2020 F-250 crew cab to replace my rusted-out hulk. But I'll be getting another truck from the '80s or '90s (probably the '90s ) and trying to make it be the best it can be. (But probably not going to the extremes that Gary does to do it )

 

[85lebaront2]

This thing has what???

Three analog inputs and probably operates at a Mhz, if that?

I'm sorry.

Go buy a 2020 truck.

Enjoy and appreciate this one for what it is. A survivor of days long past.

(Before I say this I'll say that I know that Jim and Gary, while they may "bicker like two old women", do respect each other. I respect both as well, so this is not intended in any way to be an attack against Jim.)

I'm with Gary here, and I applaud his efforts to make Big Blue drive the way he wants. I had a 2002 F-350 and a 2008 F-250. Both of those trucks were much more refined and much more capable than trucks from the '80s and '90s. But I hated them. I'm not saying that they were bad trucks, and it wasn't anything particularly objective that was wrong with them. I just hated them. I went back to a '97 truck that I really like and something huge is going to have to change before I could see myself owning a truck newer than that.

I know Gary isn't as much of a dinosaur as I am. He does have (and seems to like) a 2015 truck. But he does appreciate the character of older trucks as well. And that character doesn't have to include "unpleasant to drive". So again, I applaud his efforts to make Big Blue be the best of all possible worlds.

And for what it's worth (which is quite a lot actually), on Christmas night Lesley and I went to a drive-thru light display. The guy who took our ticket going in said "hey, I like your truck!" And the "kid" at the Pronto Pup stand at the end asked what year it was. When I said 1997 he said "cool!" (the truck is probably older than he was). And it's not like my truck is in mint condition, or special in any way other than being an old truck. That's the kind of character that a 2020 truck will never have.

New trucks have a lot going for them. And for people who want them, great. But I could afford to buy a 2020 F-250 crew cab to replace my rusted-out hulk. But I'll be getting another truck from the '80s or '90s (probably the '90s ) and trying to make it be the best it can be. (But probably not going to the extremes that Gary does to do it )

Some of us do like older trucks, and some have owned them a long time. I am only the 3rd owner of Darth, original owner was DelMar stables in Suffolk VA, the man I bought him from in 1994 bought him in a used car dealership in Kentucky. I bought him for $4500 in 1994 at the campground in Gordonsville VA.

I have, as Gary has, upgraded a few things, from carbureted to MAF/SEFI, C6 to E4OD, open rear to traction lock, rear brakes from 2 1/2" wide to 3 1/2" wide. Replaced the bed with a 1996 one as 1985-86 dually beds are impossible to find. Upgraded the crack head power distribution and alternator wiring to 1996 style, replaced the 2G "flaming Ford" alternator with a 160 amp 3G.

Interior and cab, replaced the damaged and rusted front doors with later model one, replaced the rears with 1996 full power ones, seats were non-stock when purchased so they are now 2000 Lincoln Continental 10 way power with memory capability. Added a remote keyless entry and door keypad. Updated dash and steering column to 1996 ones.

He still has the original 1986 muffler and original king pins and on a smooth road, you need to watch your speed, even with the HD dually suspension, you will find yourself lulled into being well over the speed limit.

Later model weather stripping, floor insulation and the later doors with sound deadening make him rather quiet at highway speeds (he'll cruise quite happily at 70+). Yes, I could have bought a newer truck, but, I still have no ABS, no air bags, and no catalytic converter. Taxes are a lot lower than a new truck, and we do own a 2009 Flex (mine) and a 2011 Flex (wife's) so are aware of the improvements. Until the introduction of Ford's new 7.3L gas engine, there wasn't a gas engine in a newer Ford truck to equal the 460, even in it's eviscerated state it was sold in during it's last years. My son's V10 Excursion with 3.73 gears vs Darth's 3.55 has no where near the low end torque, he needs 2nd gear in his 4R100 to do what Darth does in 3rd in the E4OD.

[Gary Lewis]

Some of us do like older trucks, and some have owned them a long time. I am only the 3rd owner of Darth, original owner was DelMar stables in Suffolk VA, the man I bought him from in 1994 bought him in a used car dealership in Kentucky. I bought him for $4500 in 1994 at the campground in Gordonsville VA.

I have, as Gary has, upgraded a few things, from carbureted to MAF/SEFI, C6 to E4OD, open rear to traction lock, rear brakes from 2 1/2" wide to 3 1/2" wide. Replaced the bed with a 1996 one as 1985-86 dually beds are impossible to find. Upgraded the crack head power distribution and alternator wiring to 1996 style, replaced the 2G "flaming Ford" alternator with a 160 amp 3G.

Interior and cab, replaced the damaged and rusted front doors with later model one, replaced the rears with 1996 full power ones, seats were non-stock when purchased so they are now 2000 Lincoln Continental 10 way power with memory capability. Added a remote keyless entry and door keypad. Updated dash and steering column to 1996 ones.

He still has the original 1986 muffler and original king pins and on a smooth road, you need to watch your speed, even with the HD dually suspension, you will find yourself lulled into being well over the speed limit.

Later model weather stripping, floor insulation and the later doors with sound deadening make him rather quiet at highway speeds (he'll cruise quite happily at 70+). Yes, I could have bought a newer truck, but, I still have no ABS, no air bags, and no catalytic converter. Taxes are a lot lower than a new truck, and we do own a 2009 Flex (mine) and a 2011 Flex (wife's) so are aware of the improvements. Until the introduction of Ford's new 7.3L gas engine, there wasn't a gas engine in a newer Ford truck to equal the 460, even in it's eviscerated state it was sold in during it's last years. My son's V10 Excursion with 3.73 gears vs Darth's 3.55 has no where near the low end torque, he needs 2nd gear in his 4R100 to do what Darth does in 3rd in the E4OD.

Bob - My 2015 is a Caddy. Most of the bells and whistles they offered. And it is EASY to drive. Smooth, powerful, roomy, capable. And my daughter and family LOVE it.

But I don't want to take Blue on anything like Black Bear. He's too pretty and I sure don't want to scratch or bend him. Enter Big Blue.

Bill - I don't know that I agree that there isn't a gas engine equal to the 460. I honestly think the 3.5L EB is. When the twin turbos come in it has every bit of the torque of Big Blue's 460, and it is a pleasure to tow with.

Ok, now I'm off to the shop to play RESTRICTOR! (Not as in restrictor plate racing.)

 

[Rusty_S85]

Some of us do like older trucks, and some have owned them a long time. I am only the 3rd owner of Darth, original owner was DelMar stables in Suffolk VA, the man I bought him from in 1994 bought him in a used car dealership in Kentucky. I bought him for $4500 in 1994 at the campground in Gordonsville VA.

I have, as Gary has, upgraded a few things, from carbureted to MAF/SEFI, C6 to E4OD, open rear to traction lock, rear brakes from 2 1/2" wide to 3 1/2" wide. Replaced the bed with a 1996 one as 1985-86 dually beds are impossible to find. Upgraded the crack head power distribution and alternator wiring to 1996 style, replaced the 2G "flaming Ford" alternator with a 160 amp 3G.

Interior and cab, replaced the damaged and rusted front doors with later model one, replaced the rears with 1996 full power ones, seats were non-stock when purchased so they are now 2000 Lincoln Continental 10 way power with memory capability. Added a remote keyless entry and door keypad. Updated dash and steering column to 1996 ones.

He still has the original 1986 muffler and original king pins and on a smooth road, you need to watch your speed, even with the HD dually suspension, you will find yourself lulled into being well over the speed limit.

Later model weather stripping, floor insulation and the later doors with sound deadening make him rather quiet at highway speeds (he'll cruise quite happily at 70+). Yes, I could have bought a newer truck, but, I still have no ABS, no air bags, and no catalytic converter. Taxes are a lot lower than a new truck, and we do own a 2009 Flex (mine) and a 2011 Flex (wife's) so are aware of the improvements. Until the introduction of Ford's new 7.3L gas engine, there wasn't a gas engine in a newer Ford truck to equal the 460, even in it's eviscerated state it was sold in during it's last years. My son's V10 Excursion with 3.73 gears vs Darth's 3.55 has no where near the low end torque, he needs 2nd gear in his 4R100 to do what Darth does in 3rd in the E4OD.

Think we all upgrade our trucks to be more to our liking.

I swore I would never do EFI cause you have more issues with failed electronics or if there is a EMP blast it could effectively knock out your computer since it is constantly powered unlike a solid state ignition module like a DSII which would not be powered up till the key is on. But now I have aftermarket EFI on my list which doesnt have a battery hot to keep the ECM active at all times and im also looking at going with upgraded internals on a C6 build for my truck mainly the E4OD planetary gear set to get a lower first and second gear for better acceleration/pulling. Im also drooling over the Currie Enterprises 9" third member with the detroit trutrak installed with 3.25:1 axle ratio for under $2,000 for my truck which I feel would be a perfect upgrade for the old 2.75:1 axle ratio currently in my truck that is closer to 2.55:1 with the 31x10.50-15 tires I run. The 3.25:1 would put me around a 2.90:1 and a 3.00:1 which is my other option would put me around 2.70:1 but I feel if I can swing it I rather go with the 3.25:1 long as I can keep 75 mph around 2,750 rpm for my camshaft.

Would love to go over drive but I do want to do some towing and with how hilly it will be where I will be moving to eventually I wont be able able to attempt and maintain a 65 mph speed outside of over drive on the highway that is posted 75 mph with everyone doing 85 and 90. I know for a AOD with its high over drive ratio I would need to run something like a 4.11:1 to have my final drive ratio around 2.75:1 so I wont lug my little 302 down too much.

Alternator upgrade is a must, I have a 1G but I am adding so much aftermarket high amp systems such as halogen auxiliary lights and aftermarket EFI, I really should go with the 3G upgrade if only I could find a small case wide ear patterned 95A unit I would be real happy, I know they existed for a time but seems everything with the wide ear pattern is all large case 130A units now which I could never utilize all amperage with a single V belt.

Muffler wise, I might need to change mine as I cant decide on what size single exhaust for my engine setup but Magnaflow has a 6" round 3 chamber muffler just like OE in roughly the OE dimensions which I have currently but wont use if I decide to go with the aftermarket 3" Y pipe and run my whole single exhaust in 3" pipe vs the OE layout of 2 1/2" to 2 1/4" tail pipe.

On the tax aspect, thats what bothers me, my truck used to be registered as a Texas Truck. But Texas got rid of their Truck registration which used GVW for a means of taxing so my yearly registration which used to be $65 is now $95 almost as they now tax my truck like a car by bluebook value vs by GVW. Im hopeful I can some how work some magic and get the property I have with in requirements to get Farm Truck plates, it would allow me to get access to AG Fuel as well as lower taxes on the truck.

[Rusty_S85]

Bob - My 2015 is a Caddy. Most of the bells and whistles they offered. And it is EASY to drive. Smooth, powerful, roomy, capable. And my daughter and family LOVE it.

But I don't want to take Blue on anything like Black Bear. He's too pretty and I sure don't want to scratch or bend him. Enter Big Blue.

Bill - I don't know that I agree that there isn't a gas engine equal to the 460. I honestly think the 3.5L EB is. When the twin turbos come in it has every bit of the torque of Big Blue's 460, and it is a pleasure to tow with.

Ok, now I'm off to the shop to play RESTRICTOR! (Not as in restrictor plate racing.)

I really want to see what the gas 7.3L Godzilla motor can do. They dont make a bunch of hp but they make a lot of low end torque. I also heard that Ford is working on a even bigger engine based on the 7.3L platform as a hotrod performance version. Only thing I like about the 7.3 is that it will fit anywhere a 351W will fit as its basically the same width as a 351W unlike the 5.0 coyote which is some 10 inches wider than a 351W with those huge dual over head cam valve covers.