Big Blue's Transformation

[grumpin]

By the way it's phrased, I think Dane's saying that the CB has a zombie draw.

But I may well be wrong.

You've got a smart isolator for the auxiliary battery, why not the starting battery?

Plenty of vehicles do that now. It's annoying to have to find the magic combination that brings it back when a vehicle has been sitting.

No, anything plugged into the power point, what I meant was the CB was off and drained it and another Xterra owner had a plug in charger with no light draw it down.

Just in the socket, a quirk or characteristic of that era vehicle.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

By the way it's phrased, I think Dane's saying that the CB has a zombie draw.

But I may well be wrong.

You've got a smart isolator for the auxiliary battery, why not the starting battery?

Plenty of vehicles do that now. It's annoying to have to find the magic combination that brings it back when a vehicle has been sitting.

No, anything plugged into the power point, what I meant was the CB was off and drained it and another Xterra owner had a plug in charger with no light draw it down.

Just in the socket, a quirk or characteristic of that era vehicle.

Okay Dane.

Seems to be a thing, not just a quirk of the X-Terra.

I guess I need to better understand what's going on with these chargers.

Obviously the charger is constantly looking to negotiate with a charging device through whatever protocol(s) it is designed with.

Apple, Qualcomm, whatever. Look for more standards as the Chinese manufacturers are forced to use new hardware and software due to sanctions.

But is there one that is completely passive until those USB charge and data pins get connected?

For Gary, I'd think an SCR would draw far less than a relay's coil, but what do I know?

But there's always some standby draw for things like clocks, radio presets or ?

And the more electronic geegaw's you load into Big Blue the more likely this is going to happen.

I wonder if your battery really did take a hit from being so deeply discharged by its defective battery tender?

 

[Gary Lewis]

Okay Dane.

Seems to be a thing, not just a quirk of the X-Terra.

I guess I need to better understand what's going on with these chargers.

Obviously the charger is constantly looking to negotiate with a charging device through whatever protocol(s) it is designed with.

Apple, Qualcomm, whatever. Look for more standards as the Chinese manufacturers are forced to use new hardware and software due to sanctions.

But is there one that is completely passive until those USB charge and data pins get connected?

For Gary, I'd think an SCR would draw far less than a relay's coil, but what do I know?

But there's always some standby draw for things like clocks, radio presets or ?

And the more electronic geegaw's you load into Big Blue the more likely this is going to happen.

I wonder if your battery really did take a hit from being so deeply discharged by its defective battery tender?

On the mystery draw on the Xterra, I had a 2011 Nissan Murano that brand new had a mystery draw. It would randomly bring the headlights on and drain the battery. After some serious words with the dealership they finally put it in a dark corner of the shop and sure enough, days later it turned the lights on. There was a problem with the body control module, and they replaced it with the last available BCM in North America. Might you be having a similar problem, Dane?

Yes, there are all sorts of things that the electronics can do on a whim that will drain the battery. Which is why I am seriously considering going to switched power for the charger. Jim is right that the electronics in the charger can decide to start charging on a whim, although it would have to have a device plugged into it for the charging to actually happen. But it could fail and short to ground.

As for the SCR, yes it would have less draw than the coil circuit of a Bosch relay, but I think it would be rare that I'd ever use that feature and the extra current won't be noticed. It would only be in something like the scenario Scott outlined where you are going in some place and need to give a boost to a device while the key is off. But if I've been driving I doubt the phone would be that discharged, and I don't like to leave my phone in the vehicle while I go in to eat, or shop, or whatever. So I'm not sure I'll install that feature, but I was intrigued by the challenge of designing that setup.

On the battery, you may be right that it was damaged by the battery tender. I think I need to keep a close eye on it. But as I think about it the idea of having electronics like a charger hot all the time concerns me as failures do happen. More support for switched power to the charger.

[ArdWrknTrk]

On the mystery draw on the Xterra, I had a 2011 Nissan Murano that brand new had a mystery draw. It would randomly bring the headlights on and drain the battery. After some serious words with the dealership they finally put it in a dark corner of the shop and sure enough, days later it turned the lights on. There was a problem with the body control module, and they replaced it with the last available BCM in North America. Might you be having a similar problem, Dane?

Yes, there are all sorts of things that the electronics can do on a whim that will drain the battery. Which is why I am seriously considering going to switched power for the charger. Jim is right that the electronics in the charger can decide to start charging on a whim, although it would have to have a device plugged into it for the charging to actually happen. But it could fail and short to ground.

As for the SCR, yes it would have less draw than the coil circuit of a Bosch relay, but I think it would be rare that I'd ever use that feature and the extra current won't be noticed. It would only be in something like the scenario Scott outlined where you are going in some place and need to give a boost to a device while the key is off. But if I've been driving I doubt the phone would be that discharged, and I don't like to leave my phone in the vehicle while I go in to eat, or shop, or whatever. So I'm not sure I'll install that feature, but I was intrigued by the challenge of designing that setup.

On the battery, you may be right that it was damaged by the battery tender. I think I need to keep a close eye on it. But as I think about it the idea of having electronics like a charger hot all the time concerns me as failures do happen. More support for switched power to the charger.

The charger can't put power into an open circuit, and it certainly can't "decide to do it on a whim"

The 'handshake' between charger and device has to be fairly complex or it wouldn't be intellectual property, would it?

The only time I see current going into an open circuit is a spark plug, welder or some other device like Jacobs ladder or a Tesla coil that creates an arc.

Arcing in a USB socket is a definite no go in my book.

[Gary Lewis]

The charger can't put power into an open circuit, and it certainly can't "decide to do it on a whim"

The 'handshake' between charger and device has to be fairly complex or it wouldn't be intellectual property, would it?

The only time I see current going into an open circuit is a spark plug, welder or some other device like Jacobs ladder or a Tesla coil that creates an arc.

Arcing in a USB socket is a definite no go in my book.

I agree - if the charger is working properly. But you mentioned the battery tender, which had 110v AC on one side and 12v DC on the other, and somehow it drained the battery. All I'm saying is that the USB charger could fault internally and drain the battery just like the battery tender did - without blowing any fuses by the way.

Which, as I said, gives more support to using switched power for the USB charger.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I agree - if the charger is working properly. But you mentioned the battery tender, which had 110v AC on one side and 12v DC on the other, and somehow it drained the battery. All I'm saying is that the USB charger could fault internally and drain the battery just like the battery tender did - without blowing any fuses by the way.

Which, as I said, gives more support to using switched power for the USB charger.

The battery tender could only do that because it had a shorted secondary winding isolated from the primary 120V side, but with a chassis ground in common.

Semiconductors don't work by passing magnetic fields from one side to create current on the other.

[Nothing Special]

.... You've got a smart isolator for the auxiliary battery, why not the starting battery?

Plenty of vehicles do that now. It's annoying to have to find the magic combination that brings it back when a vehicle has been sitting.

Is that a solid state isolator? Because don't they have the 0.7V drop that diodes "always" have? I don't know how significant that would be, but I've generally not been excited about not giving the full regulated voltage to a battery.

Of course I could easily see a manufacture bumping the regulator up 0.7V to compensate if they knew there'd be a solid state isolator. But that's more challenging to do in your own garage.

[Gary Lewis]

The battery tender could only do that because it had a shorted secondary winding isolated from the primary 120V side, but with a chassis ground in common.

Semiconductors don't work by passing magnetic fields from one side to create current on the other.

I'm not sure what the problem was with the battery tender, but it wasn't a direct short as it didn't blow the 2 amp fuse in the leads going to the battery. It just pulled a few ma over a long enough period to really pull the battery down.

Anyway, I just ordered this Anker USB C to Lightning Cable to make use of the to-be USB-C charger. Both are to be in tomorrow.

I needed a new charging cord in the truck anyway. The one that was in there was falling to pieces. Apparently the UV had killed the insulation and it was falling off like a snake's skin.

As for the isolator, the Cole Hersee is a big relay with smarts that pull it in. So there's essentially no voltage drop across it.

[grumpin]

Okay Dane.

Seems to be a thing, not just a quirk of the X-Terra.

Just remembered, and I’ve mentioned this about my President Bill CB, it has a USB charge port.

Interesting, you made me think, and that kinda hurt!

 

[Gary Lewis]

Okay Dane.

Seems to be a thing, not just a quirk of the X-Terra.

Just remembered, and I’ve mentioned this about my President Bill CB, it has a USB charge port.

Interesting, you made me think, and that kinda hurt!

Yeah, I understand that "that kinda hurts" bit.

Got a bit done today. But before I get into that, I looked my wiring harnii over today and do not have the pieces needed to add the power windows circuit. Scott, if you are willing to part with your spares please text me with what you want for those pieces.

As for what I did, the first that was to use the chassis punch on Big Blue's ash tray. Turned out nicely, but I've included the take-out piece to show how much offset I gave it in order to center the hole up/down and side/side.

I also noticed a difference between the ash tray I punched out yesterday and Big Blue's. In the pic below BB's is on the top and the other on the bottom. Notice that BB's door is against the face of the charger and the other has a bit of a gap. BB's door doesn't want to close easily as it catches on the charger. I can file that edge of the door down, but will wait to see how the new charger fits before doing that.

With that done I turned to the switch "cage" and the medium-duty truck radio bezel. I laid out the lines, cut w/the Dremel, and filed, and filed, and filed. And all of a sudden it slipped in.

Then I popped the OX switch in and installed it in the truck. Mission Control is taking shape!

I'm quite pleased that the bezel is solid when you push the switch. So now I need more switches.