Big Blue's Transformation

[Nothing Special]

Any concern with putting the oil into a rubber tire?

... I spray some WD40 in (the tank) before I put the plug back in

Any concern putting kerosene + propane propellant in a rubber tire?

Not really, because I'm putting maybe a tablespoon full in the tank and letting it sit there. Sure, the propane may outgas and end up in the tires, but there isn't a lot of it. And the kerosene will basically puddle in the tank, not really being blown into the tires since it's not in the air stream.

Maybe a stainless tank would be a better (if more costly) alternative?

Definitely!

Having an inline check valve at the tank inlet would keep you from losing everything in the event you damaged the line from the pump.

If there was an unloader it would keep it from draining the whole tank too.

Not too concerned about that. the line from the compressor to the tank is pretty well protected. And I'm pretty much out of luck if I lose that anyway. There's no way my tank holds enough air to do anything significant without the compressor refilling it.

I have a pressure switch (cut-out?) that turns my compressor off at about 120 psi and back on around 100 or so. I do not have a check valve (other than whatever plumbing came with the compressor?). And I do not have an unloader....

I don't have a drain valve, there is a plug in the bottom of my tank to drain the water.

A ball valve to blow the tank down every day it's used seems a lot easier than a procedure that reads like an oil change to me.

But I don't have one, and I see how little it will actually be used.

My air tank is under my Bronco, so anything at the bottom of the air tank is subject to rock strikes. I used to have a Schrader valve in that port. I never broke it off, but I did bend it once. That was enough for me, so I put the smallest, most robust thing I could in there, a plug. Yes, a ball valve would be a lot more convenient. Until it got broken off on the trail.

I do know how hard a compressor starts.

I just think giving it a hand getting up to speed will make its life easier.

Good point. But my compressor doesn't start up that often. When I'm using it to air up tires it's on all the time (why I made sure to get one that's rated for 100% duty cycle). When I'm on the trail I keep the tank full so I can operate my air-actuated locker, but there's very little air use then, so it mostly stays off. And I leave the compressor shut off the rest of the time. So I don't think it's costing me an awful lot.

Being in the building trades I see a lot of guys that have air and electricity built in to their vans.

(Some of these things rival Apollo control! Definitely a command center for the jobsite)

Hose reels always seem to accompany that, but bulk and complexity in adverse conditions are not a good combo.

25-30' of hose seems like it would reach anywhere on the truck.

My Bronco is pretty short, so I think I have maybe 15' - 20' of rubber hose rolled up and I usually bring one of those coils of plastic line (10'?). But even if you can't get around the truck you can take a shortcut under it. So you can usually get by with less hose than you might think. (I bring the coiled line to go between my tire inflater and the air chuck. That way I can stand up while airing up the tires instead of having to squat down next to 4 tires.)

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Any concern with putting the oil into a rubber tire?

... I spray some WD40 in (the tank) before I put the plug back in

Any concern putting kerosene + propane propellant in a rubber tire?

Not really, because I'm putting maybe a tablespoon full in the tank and letting it sit there. Sure, the propane may outgas and end up in the tires, but there isn't a lot of it. And the kerosene will basically puddle in the tank, not really being blown into the tires since it's not in the air stream.

Maybe a stainless tank would be a better (if more costly) alternative?

Definitely!

Having an inline check valve at the tank inlet would keep you from losing everything in the event you damaged the line from the pump.

If there was an unloader it would keep it from draining the whole tank too.

Not too concerned about that. the line from the compressor to the tank is pretty well protected. And I'm pretty much out of luck if I lose that anyway. There's no way my tank holds enough air to do anything significant without the compressor refilling it.

I have a pressure switch (cut-out?) that turns my compressor off at about 120 psi and back on around 100 or so. I do not have a check valve (other than whatever plumbing came with the compressor?). And I do not have an unloader....

I don't have a drain valve, there is a plug in the bottom of my tank to drain the water.

A ball valve to blow the tank down every day it's used seems a lot easier than a procedure that reads like an oil change to me.

But I don't have one, and I see how little it will actually be used.

My air tank is under my Bronco, so anything at the bottom of the air tank is subject to rock strikes. I used to have a Schrader valve in that port. I never broke it off, but I did bend it once. That was enough for me, so I put the smallest, most robust thing I could in there, a plug. Yes, a ball valve would be a lot more convenient. Until it got broken off on the trail.

I do know how hard a compressor starts.

I just think giving it a hand getting up to speed will make its life easier.

Good point. But my compressor doesn't start up that often. When I'm using it to air up tires it's on all the time (why I made sure to get one that's rated for 100% duty cycle). When I'm on the trail I keep the tank full so I can operate my air-actuated locker, but there's very little air use then, so it mostly stays off. And I leave the compressor shut off the rest of the time. So I don't think it's costing me an awful lot.

Being in the building trades I see a lot of guys that have air and electricity built in to their vans.

(Some of these things rival Apollo control! Definitely a command center for the jobsite)

Hose reels always seem to accompany that, but bulk and complexity in adverse conditions are not a good combo.

25-30' of hose seems like it would reach anywhere on the truck.

My Bronco is pretty short, so I think I have maybe 15' - 20' of rubber hose rolled up and I usually bring one of those coils of plastic line (10'?). But even if you can't get around the truck you can take a shortcut under it. So you can usually get by with less hose than you might think. (I bring the coiled line to go between my tire inflater and the air chuck. That way I can stand up while airing up the tires instead of having to squat down next to 4 tires.)

Seems like a simple sintered filter would eliminate any oil on the outflow port leaving the rest to coat the tank if going with a York.

I hear you on the short line (I have a 25' cut in half for doing trim in small rooms) so I'm not tripping over it.

My rclb is almost 19' bumper to bumper.

But that 25' might allow you to reach someone else in crisis (and unblock the trail for you)

A 25' polyurethane hose like Flexeel is pretty compact.

[Gary Lewis]

Any concern with putting the oil into a rubber tire?

... I spray some WD40 in (the tank) before I put the plug back in

Any concern putting kerosene + propane propellant in a rubber tire?

Not really, because I'm putting maybe a tablespoon full in the tank and letting it sit there. Sure, the propane may outgas and end up in the tires, but there isn't a lot of it. And the kerosene will basically puddle in the tank, not really being blown into the tires since it's not in the air stream.

Maybe a stainless tank would be a better (if more costly) alternative?

Definitely!

Having an inline check valve at the tank inlet would keep you from losing everything in the event you damaged the line from the pump.

If there was an unloader it would keep it from draining the whole tank too.

Not too concerned about that. the line from the compressor to the tank is pretty well protected. And I'm pretty much out of luck if I lose that anyway. There's no way my tank holds enough air to do anything significant without the compressor refilling it.

I have a pressure switch (cut-out?) that turns my compressor off at about 120 psi and back on around 100 or so. I do not have a check valve (other than whatever plumbing came with the compressor?). And I do not have an unloader....

I don't have a drain valve, there is a plug in the bottom of my tank to drain the water.

A ball valve to blow the tank down every day it's used seems a lot easier than a procedure that reads like an oil change to me.

But I don't have one, and I see how little it will actually be used.

My air tank is under my Bronco, so anything at the bottom of the air tank is subject to rock strikes. I used to have a Schrader valve in that port. I never broke it off, but I did bend it once. That was enough for me, so I put the smallest, most robust thing I could in there, a plug. Yes, a ball valve would be a lot more convenient. Until it got broken off on the trail.

I do know how hard a compressor starts.

I just think giving it a hand getting up to speed will make its life easier.

Good point. But my compressor doesn't start up that often. When I'm using it to air up tires it's on all the time (why I made sure to get one that's rated for 100% duty cycle). When I'm on the trail I keep the tank full so I can operate my air-actuated locker, but there's very little air use then, so it mostly stays off. And I leave the compressor shut off the rest of the time. So I don't think it's costing me an awful lot.

Being in the building trades I see a lot of guys that have air and electricity built in to their vans.

(Some of these things rival Apollo control! Definitely a command center for the jobsite)

Hose reels always seem to accompany that, but bulk and complexity in adverse conditions are not a good combo.

25-30' of hose seems like it would reach anywhere on the truck.

My Bronco is pretty short, so I think I have maybe 15' - 20' of rubber hose rolled up and I usually bring one of those coils of plastic line (10'?). But even if you can't get around the truck you can take a shortcut under it. So you can usually get by with less hose than you might think. (I bring the coiled line to go between my tire inflater and the air chuck. That way I can stand up while airing up the tires instead of having to squat down next to 4 tires.)

Good idea on getting a complete compressor. (Like Steve's? ) Oddly enough, a year or two ago I was given an old compressor that didn't work. (Steve - Larry gave it to me.) He thought I could use the parts, and I eyed the tank, switch, and safety valve for Big Blue. But then I discovered that the only problem with it was the reed valves, and new ones were $12 delivered. So I rebuilt it and my son now has a decent compressor.

But I'm not ready to spend the money on that right at the moment as I'm going to be ordering wheel bearings and seals, u-joints, etc pretty soon. So that expenditure will wait until next year. Or, perhaps my Christmas present will be a turn-key 12v on-board air system?

Bob's mention of duty cycle got me to thinking. 4wd Parts has several systems, one of which has a 33% duty cycle, which doesn't sound like much. But it has something like a 20 minute max run time. So if I were to pump up the air tank before getting to the end of the trail and let the compressor cool while we drive then I could run it another 20 minutes. I wonder if that would be enough?

Also Bob mentioned an air chuck, and that made me think of the chuck I had that clipped onto the valve stem. If I used one of those then the compressor would be working against a max of 30 psi, and compressors deliver more air when working against lower pressures. So, wouldn't the tire fill up more quickly if you attach the hose to the tire rather than pump only into a tank and then fill the tire?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Good idea on getting a complete compressor. (Like Steve's? ) Oddly enough, a year or two ago I was given an old compressor that didn't work. (Steve - Larry gave it to me.) He thought I could use the parts, and I eyed the tank, switch, and safety valve for Big Blue. But then I discovered that the only problem with it was the reed valves, and new ones were $12 delivered. So I rebuilt it and my son now has a decent compressor.

But I'm not ready to spend the money on that right at the moment as I'm going to be ordering wheel bearings and seals, u-joints, etc pretty soon. So that expenditure will wait until next year. Or, perhaps my Christmas present will be a turn-key 12v on-board air system?

Bob's mention of duty cycle got me to thinking. 4wd Parts has several systems, one of which has a 33% duty cycle, which doesn't sound like much. But it has something like a 20 minute max run time. So if I were to pump up the air tank before getting to the end of the trail and let the compressor cool while we drive then I could run it another 20 minutes. I wonder if that would be enough?

Also Bob mentioned an air chuck, and that made me think of the chuck I had that clipped onto the valve stem. If I used one of those then the compressor would be working against a max of 30 psi, and compressors deliver more air when working against lower pressures. So, wouldn't the tire fill up more quickly if you attach the hose to the tire rather than pump only into a tank and then fill the tire?

The one I showed (stock# 97080/69269) is three gallon.

Tank size 8" dia x 15"L.

It's $57 retail, and I'm sure it's cheaper right now.

[Gary Lewis]

The one I showed (stock# 97080/69269) is three gallon.

Tank size 8" dia x 15"L.

It's $57 retail, and I'm sure it's cheaper right now.

Yes, that HF compressor would have lots of good parts, for far less than buying them one at a time. So if I do go with the York that's probably what I'll do. Or pick up a broken/used one.

But this discussion got me to thinking about tank size, and I've come to the conclusion that there is no tank too big. Some say that with a big tank you have to wait until it is full, so that slows you down. But as I said previously, compressors pump more air at lower pressure so once the tank is depleted just use it as a pass-through. Clip the hose to the valve stem and let the compressor run.

Given that, I want to find a tank that is a good fit but maximizes the space between the frame and the passenger's bedside. And, it would be nice to have some protection so I could have a ball valve for draining it w/o having to worry about knocking the valve off. So that means the tank should sit up a bit so the valve can go above the skid plate.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yes, that HF compressor would have lots of good parts, for far less than buying them one at a time. So if I do go with the York that's probably what I'll do. Or pick up a broken/used one.

But this discussion got me to thinking about tank size, and I've come to the conclusion that there is no tank too big. Some say that with a big tank you have to wait until it is full, so that slows you down. But as I said previously, compressors pump more air at lower pressure so once the tank is depleted just use it as a pass-through. Clip the hose to the valve stem and let the compressor run.

Given that, I want to find a tank that is a good fit but maximizes the space between the frame and the passenger's bedside. And, it would be nice to have some protection so I could have a ball valve for draining it w/o having to worry about knocking the valve off. So that means the tank should sit up a bit so the valve can go above the skid plate.

3 Gal seemed to exceed your request...?

And 8" seems a good match for frame rail + bed mounts and their rail.

The foot bracket looks like it would make it easy to mount.

Heck put it upside down, use the inlet for a drain and the drain to exit.

The 100psi switch is a screw turn away from 125.

[Nothing Special]

.... Bob's mention of duty cycle got me to thinking. 4wd Parts has several systems, one of which has a 33% duty cycle, which doesn't sound like much. But it has something like a 20 minute max run time. So if I were to pump up the air tank before getting to the end of the trail and let the compressor cool while we drive then I could run it another 20 minutes. I wonder if that would be enough?

You can make anything work. Personally I decided that I didn't want to have to manage that and just went with a 100% duty (which is more expensive). And I don't recall what my cfm rating is.

Also Bob mentioned an air chuck, and that made me think of the chuck I had that clipped onto the valve stem. If I used one of those then the compressor would be working against a max of 30 psi, and compressors deliver more air when working against lower pressures. So, wouldn't the tire fill up more quickly if you attach the hose to the tire rather than pump only into a tank and then fill the tire?

The way you asked the question, no. The tire will fill up faster if there is more air pressure-volume on the other side of the tire valve. Air will flow in faster if it's coming from a tank at 100 psi than if it's coming from a compressor that is at a pressure just slightly higher than what the tire is currently at.

But will the compressor have to run longer and harder to first pump up an air tank to 120 psi and then fill four tires? Definitely. But the advantage of a tank is that you can get some of the compressing done while you're not standing next to a stopped vehicle with your entire family waiting for you. The compressor runs longer and harder on average, but you're not standing next to the vehicle for as long.

Given any particular compressor (and assuming it's not particularly fast), ideally you'd fill the tank while driving, then fill tires from both the compressor and the tank until the tank is at the same pressure as the tires, then shut a valve so the compressor is only filling the tires, and then open the valve after you are done filling the tires to refill the tank. But that's more putzing with plumbing than I want to do, so I end up waiting a little longer for the compressor to fill the tires and tank at the same time. But it's all at low pressure, so it's not as bad as it might be.

By the way, another lazy man's trick is to make a hose set-up with T's and 4 air chucks so you can fill all 4 tires to the same pressure at the same time. It's no faster, but you can sit in one place for longer rather than moving around and sitting in 4 places. Maybe less helpful on a pickup where you often want the front and rear tires at different pressures, but you can still do two at a time if you way. (I don't want...)

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

I've come to the conclusion that there is no tank too big.

Given that, I want to find a tank that is a good fit but maximizes the space between the frame and the passenger's bedside.

Maybe something like this is better for you?

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/california-air-tools-aux05-5-gallon-portable-steel-air-tank-1185014?cm_mmc=feed-_-GoogleShopping-_-Product-_-1185014&gclid=Cj0KCQjwgezoBRDNARIsAGzEfe7tcEjxQtVoBkTnutkvacpDgTunHL5GlPU6zHM4evDESCfwDNXkiHsaAnQOEALw_wcB

TSC seem to have a few tanks in the 5-20 range

[Nothing Special]

.... I've come to the conclusion that there is no tank too big. Some say that with a big tank you have to wait until it is full, so that slows you down. But as I said previously, compressors pump more air at lower pressure so once the tank is depleted just use it as a pass-through. Clip the hose to the valve stem and let the compressor run....

I missed this post earlier (I must have been posting at the time).

Yes, compressors pump more volume at lower pressure, but unless you take the tank out of the system you now have to fill up both the tire and the tank at the same time. I think the algebra would work out that you pretty much only need to "air up" the tank once as you air up all 4 tires because what you gained while pumping up the first would be "lost" into the second, so not really lost at all. But unless the tank is big enough to fill all 4 tires pretty much without the compressor running you'll be refilling the tank.

Not to say you don't want the biggest tank you can fit. The advantage of a higher flow rate as you deplete the air tank may well offset the disadvantage of the lower flow rate into the tires as you also refill the tank. And there's the downside of the time it takes to fill the tank to begin with. Not such a huge issue since you're just driving while it does that (it takes maybe ~10 minutes for my compressor to fill my 2.5 gallon tank). But if duty cycle is an issue, or if you need air soon after turning the compressor on it might be (with my air-actuated locker it's more of a risk than just for airing up). I'm not sure how all of that balances out.

For me it's pretty much a moot point anyway. Unless I use my roll cage as an air tank (which I don't want to do for the rust issue), 2.5 gallons is about as big as I can tuck under an early Bronco. And I think I've posted this earlier, but with my 2.5 gallon tank and 33/10.50-15 tires I can only get one tire aired up from 15 - 30 psi before the tank isn't helping me anymore.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I've come to the conclusion that there is no tank too big.

Given that, I want to find a tank that is a good fit but maximizes the space between the frame and the passenger's bedside.

Maybe something like this is better for you?

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/california-air-tools-aux05-5-gallon-portable-steel-air-tank-1185014?cm_mmc=feed-_-GoogleShopping-_-Product-_-1185014&gclid=Cj0KCQjwgezoBRDNARIsAGzEfe7tcEjxQtVoBkTnutkvacpDgTunHL5GlPU6zHM4evDESCfwDNXkiHsaAnQOEALw_wcB

TSC seem to have a few tanks in the 5-20 range

I'm measuring my '87 and it seems there's only 8" if you want to keep it above the frame rail.

I get 26" from front of bed to spring hanger.

But 16"! from outside of rail to inside of fender.

There's a couple of inches more height if you go between the bed supports, but only 17" length.