Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

Is this like a Wiggins clamp used for pump and pressure applications?

I guess I'm.not up on any modern designations.

:nabble_smiley_blush:

Okay, I see this is a single band with no seals, but cone and socket weldments that are drawn together,

Or flared ends under what is essentially a collet...

Seems much easier than flange and gaskets like my muffler.

Bob - It really WAS cool! I grinned ear-to-ear. And later I realized it was 94 degrees out and I just had the windows down and didn't notice the heat.

Jim - Like Scott I didn't find any shops near me that do mandrel bends. I've looked. I'm sure there are some in Tulsa, somewhere, that do it.

As for the single vs dual, I see what you are saying about extra surface area and cooling. Makes sense. But I've always liked duals so want to go that way. But I will add the X or H. Forgot to talk to him about that, so will today.

Jonathan - The ZF works very very well on Big Blue. 2nd gear is just right for starting and dropping it into 5th is so calming. Seems like a much more modern truck. But one other difference I can tell is 3rd gear. The T-19's 1.79 ratio meant you could putt putt around city corners in 3rd easily, although it wasn't quite tall enough when on the road as there was a big jump to 4th. But the ZF's 1.61 seems to fix that problem. I can still get around corners ok in 3rd, but it'll take you a lot faster when you rev it up.

Scott - Thanks, but I have the cobbled-together exhaust on and that path is surely what he's going to have to use since it is about all that works. And it sounds like it is the same as yours.

But I like the idea of the connections to the rear and will ask about adding them. He will call them "ball and socket" joints as he did yesterday when we were discussing what the connections are from the headers to the collectors. He likes ball and socket much better than flange and gaskets, but says he has the gaskets and the latter will work fine.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Bob - It really WAS cool! I grinned ear-to-ear. And later I realized it was 94 degrees out and I just had the windows down and didn't notice the heat.

Jim - Like Scott I didn't find any shops near me that do mandrel bends. I've looked. I'm sure there are some in Tulsa, somewhere, that do it.

As for the single vs dual, I see what you are saying about extra surface area and cooling. Makes sense. But I've always liked duals so want to go that way. But I will add the X or H. Forgot to talk to him about that, so will today.

Jonathan - The ZF works very very well on Big Blue. 2nd gear is just right for starting and dropping it into 5th is so calming. Seems like a much more modern truck. But one other difference I can tell is 3rd gear. The T-19's 1.79 ratio meant you could putt putt around city corners in 3rd easily, although it wasn't quite tall enough when on the road as there was a big jump to 4th. But the ZF's 1.61 seems to fix that problem. I can still get around corners ok in 3rd, but it'll take you a lot faster when you rev it up.

Scott - Thanks, but I have the cobbled-together exhaust on and that path is surely what he's going to have to use since it is about all that works. And it sounds like it is the same as yours.

But I like the idea of the connections to the rear and will ask about adding them. He will call them "ball and socket" joints as he did yesterday when we were discussing what the connections are from the headers to the collectors. He likes ball and socket much better than flange and gaskets, but says he has the gaskets and the latter will work fine.

Ball and socket is just like a manifold to head pipe connection, with a flange holding a somewhat spherical tube end into a conical recess.

V-clamps hold two flared/flanged tube ends together, or two weld fittings together

 

[kramttocs]

Ball and socket is just like a manifold to head pipe connection, with a flange holding a somewhat spherical tube end into a conical recess.

V-clamps hold two flared/flanged tube ends together, or two weld fittings together

I won't act like I know anymore than what the guy told me when laying out the routing but these v-bands (just googled and seems like that is the proper name?) are just clamping two pieces together in the middle of the run. Like Jim said, they are a different connection than ball and socket. The installer recommended them to make it easier to remove a shorter piece (from the header ball and socket to right behind the tcase) in order to provide more room when doing tcase or transmission work. Haven't touched them so not sure how it pans out in practice...

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Jim - I agree the fuel problem needs to be solved, although I'm doubting that the bouncing pressure is causing what seems to be a very regular miss. But I think the extra pressure regulator might be the trick.

Bill - I think I'm using the Ford switch and it does control the relay. And thanks for the plug #.

How about an interesting conjecture that explains both the return spikes and the lack of fuel return???

The return side won't open until pressure builds to overcome the spring behind this diaphragm.

That can't happen if the spring is looking to keep a residual pressure in the system at 45#(?), but the regulator is set for 5.5#.

The pump keeps going.

The return port has its own regulator built into the module.

But the carburetor regulator can't return, until pressure builds in the loop.

This leaves the carb literally chugging fuel, as the module slams the door on return soon as it opens and pressure drops.

If the Holley regulator was set above the return opening pressure, the system would be dependent on volume and everything it bled off would return smoothly.

[Gary Lewis]

How about an interesting conjecture that explains both the return spikes and the lack of fuel return???

The return side won't open until pressure builds to overcome the spring behind this diaphragm.

That can't happen if the spring is looking to keep a residual pressure in the system at 45#(?), but the regulator is set for 5.5#.

The pump keeps going.

The return port has its own regulator built into the module.

But the carburetor regulator can't return, until pressure builds in the loop.

This leaves the carb literally chugging fuel, as the module slams the door on return soon as it opens and pressure drops.

If the Holley regulator was set above the return opening pressure, the system would be dependent on volume and everything it bled off would return smoothly.

Jim - That's kind of what I was expecting, although I didn't expect the regulator as well. Let me say it differently to see that I understand. There's a check valve, a regulator, and a solenoid-operated valve in the FDM. The solenoid-operated valve controls whether or not fuel can come onto the FDM at all, and opens when the pump runs. The check valve keeps X psi on the system when shut off, and the regulator keeps the system at some set point when running.

And the combo of all of that and the Holley regulator is chaos. Too many mechanical things trying to do their magic at the same time on the same fluid, and it doesn't work. But it seems the addition of another regulator does.

Speaking of that regulator, I took BB in to see Steve/FoxFord33 this morn. And all went well, except that on the way home BB ran poorly. Wouldn't idle and didn't want to run until the RPM was up. My guess was that he was way too lean at idle and that was apparently correct. I opened up the idle fuel screws about 1 1/2 turns each and that brought the idle up nicely, although I did have to open the throttle a bit as well. It now pulls 17 - 18" of vacuum at ~550 RPM, but still isn't quite right on the AFR.

As for the alignment, here's a shot of Steve with BB on the alignment machine:

And here's the readout of the machine after he adjusted the toe and centered the wheel. The toe is dead-on and the caster is essentially there as well. But the camber is off. Basically as I understand it both front tires lean toward the passenger's side at the top about 1/2 degree. Unfortunately we ran out of time to break the eccentrics loose and dial in that change, but I can do that myself as Steve showed me what the settings should be, and have 6 months & 6,000 mile to take it back in to see that I got it there.

Having said that, the camber is just in the yellow region and the truck drives extremely well. It tracks great and doesn't pull at all, so that last tweak can wait a bit.

Which brings me to the next step of the plan - the exhaust. I called and talked with the gentleman and we changed the plan slightly. We are going with 2 1/2" pipe, adding an X-pipe, and have upgraded from the 18" muffler to a 24" muffler, #12286.

 

[Sac79]

Jim - That's kind of what I was expecting, although I didn't expect the regulator as well. Let me say it differently to see that I understand. There's a check valve, a regulator, and a solenoid-operated valve in the FDM. The solenoid-operated valve controls whether or not fuel can come onto the FDM at all, and opens when the pump runs. The check valve keeps X psi on the system when shut off, and the regulator keeps the system at some set point when running.

And the combo of all of that and the Holley regulator is chaos. Too many mechanical things trying to do their magic at the same time on the same fluid, and it doesn't work. But it seems the addition of another regulator does.

Speaking of that regulator, I took BB in to see Steve/FoxFord33 this morn. And all went well, except that on the way home BB ran poorly. Wouldn't idle and didn't want to run until the RPM was up. My guess was that he was way too lean at idle and that was apparently correct. I opened up the idle fuel screws about 1 1/2 turns each and that brought the idle up nicely, although I did have to open the throttle a bit as well. It now pulls 17 - 18" of vacuum at ~550 RPM, but still isn't quite right on the AFR.

As for the alignment, here's a shot of Steve with BB on the alignment machine:

And here's the readout of the machine after he adjusted the toe and centered the wheel. The toe is dead-on and the caster is essentially there as well. But the camber is off. Basically as I understand it both front tires lean toward the passenger's side at the top about 1/2 degree. Unfortunately we ran out of time to break the eccentrics loose and dial in that change, but I can do that myself as Steve showed me what the settings should be, and have 6 months & 6,000 mile to take it back in to see that I got it there.

Having said that, the camber is just in the yellow region and the truck drives extremely well. It tracks great and doesn't pull at all, so that last tweak can wait a bit.

Which brings me to the next step of the plan - the exhaust. I called and talked with the gentleman and we changed the plan slightly. We are going with 2 1/2" pipe, adding an X-pipe, and have upgraded from the 18" muffler to a 24" muffler, #12286.

Gary, can you see the camber with the naked eye? I can still see the camber of my driver's side wheel, not super obvious, but enough that you know it's not an illusion. I only have about 1/2 deg of adjustment left. The spindle wouldn't go over the shaft with the bushing maxed out. On the passenger's side the bushing is maxed(3.5 deg I think) and the camber looks perfect/neutral to the naked eye. Just wondering what 1/2 deg looks like... I haven't taken mine to the shop yet. Still upset with them for charging me extra to mount the tires.

And I'm glad you have been able to iron out the kinks reasonably quickly. More pics of BB out and about please!

[ArdWrknTrk]

Jim - That's kind of what I was expecting, although I didn't expect the regulator as well. Let me say it differently to see that I understand. There's a check valve, a regulator, and a solenoid-operated valve in the FDM. The solenoid-operated valve controls whether or not fuel can come onto the FDM at all, and opens when the pump runs. The check valve keeps X psi on the system when shut off, and the regulator keeps the system at some set point when running.

And the combo of all of that and the Holley regulator is chaos. Too many mechanical things trying to do their magic at the same time on the same fluid, and it doesn't work. But it seems the addition of another regulator does.

Speaking of that regulator, I took BB in to see Steve/FoxFord33 this morn. And all went well, except that on the way home BB ran poorly. Wouldn't idle and didn't want to run until the RPM was up. My guess was that he was way too lean at idle and that was apparently correct. I opened up the idle fuel screws about 1 1/2 turns each and that brought the idle up nicely, although I did have to open the throttle a bit as well. It now pulls 17 - 18" of vacuum at ~550 RPM, but still isn't quite right on the AFR.

As for the alignment, here's a shot of Steve with BB on the alignment machine:

And here's the readout of the machine after he adjusted the toe and centered the wheel. The toe is dead-on and the caster is essentially there as well. But the camber is off. Basically as I understand it both front tires lean toward the passenger's side at the top about 1/2 degree. Unfortunately we ran out of time to break the eccentrics loose and dial in that change, but I can do that myself as Steve showed me what the settings should be, and have 6 months & 6,000 mile to take it back in to see that I got it there.

Having said that, the camber is just in the yellow region and the truck drives extremely well. It tracks great and doesn't pull at all, so that last tweak can wait a bit.

Which brings me to the next step of the plan - the exhaust. I called and talked with the gentleman and we changed the plan slightly. We are going with 2 1/2" pipe, adding an X-pipe, and have upgraded from the 18" muffler to a 24" muffler, #12286.

No solenoid and no 'actual' regulator.

Just a check valve on the pump to prevent drainback and what I can only best describe as a residual pressure valve on the return.

But if the return regulator is set lower that the residual pressure then pressure builds until it makes that limit.

Fuel flows back into the tank, the gauge goes down, and the valve closes until the whole system reaches residual pressure again.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

[salans7]

• But the best thing is the overdrive! That 1800 RPM at 65 is magic. Sooooo much better than the 2500 of the T-19's top gear. (And it purrs, or maybe growls, nicely at 75 MPH.)

My Ranger sits at around 2800 RPM at 65 (35's with 4.88 gears and a .079 OD). So 1800 at 65 really is magical. And if I can get my 460/T19 to sit at 2500 at 65, I'll be a happy camper because it will be better than my Ranger.

 

[85lebaront2]

No solenoid and no 'actual' regulator.

Just a check valve on the pump to prevent drainback and what I can only best describe as a residual pressure valve on the return.

But if the return regulator is set lower that the residual pressure then pressure builds until it makes that limit.

Fuel flows back into the tank, the gauge goes down, and the valve closes until the whole system reaches residual pressure again.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Jim, that is the exact point I raised when Gary was trying to get the pressures correct, "how much pressure does it take to unseat the return check valve" Considering that one of the tests performed for a hot start issue is residual pressure leakdown.

[Gary Lewis]

Jim, that is the exact point I raised when Gary was trying to get the pressures correct, "how much pressure does it take to unseat the return check valve" Considering that one of the tests performed for a hot start issue is residual pressure leakdown.

In reverse order:

 

Bill - I do remember you saying that, but I assumed that the regulator would handle it. Obviously not.

 

Jim - "No solenoid and no 'actual' regulator." Got it.

 

Shaun - That kind of RPM's on the highway was what Dad's truck was turning with the 3.50's and a C6 @ 65. And that was one of the big reasons I put in the ZF5 - this same ZF5 in fact. But if your 460/T19 combo has 3.55's and 33's it'll turn right at 2500. That's what BB turns in 4th.

 

Rob - I think I can JUST see the camber with my eye on the passenger's side tire. I'd thought before taking it in that it looked slightly out at the top. But it is hard to see.

 

And just for you: