Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

Bill says the cap, rotor, wires or plugs may be the cause.I won't even attempt to dispute that.But it is a Scotty tuned distributor, so I very much doubt the problem has to do with the new cap and rotor.Gary has the EFI heat shields in place.So I doubt the wires are shorting to the headers.If he's using Autolites though....I've had my problems with them.And when you get misfires after installing a new set of plugs, you just don't trust them when zero QC is the obvious cause.This is why I said put the timing light on each wire or use the IR to determine which cylinder(s) are misbehaving.

Morning, all! Hope your evening and night was as good as mine.

 

First, the plugs are Autolites. And I think that I'll start by pulling them and see what they look like. Then, if that doesn't point to a problem then I'll put them back, confirm the wiring is in the right order (for the 10th time) and fire it up. Then I can do the IR thermometer and the timing light tests.

 

And the first ignition box I used is bad. The tach was wonky. Turn the key on and it would go to 3000 sometimes. When the engine was running it would sometimes drop as the RPM came up. And that's why I changed to the other one, which made a huge difference, both in the way the engine runs awa the tach itself, which is now solid.

 

On the fuel pressure, there is probably 10 gallons of gas in the rear tank. And I know I'm running off of it as the front tank is unplugged. And I'm confused as to why with the engine running I have the pulsing and didn't with the engine off. I think I'll pull the air cleaner, put the switch on the oil pressure switch, and see if I have pulsing with the engine off.

 

But note in the video that the pulses seem to be perfectly timed with the pulses of the engine. Am I imagining that? If it is true, what could cause it? Sloshing of the fuel in the carb causing the float to drop and open?

 

As for getting that pressure down, do we really think that needs to be fixed? If so I do have a deadhead style regulator that was on BB previously. It would be pretty easy to put it in the line between the regulator that is there and the carb. Perhaps that would smooth it out?

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Jeez Jim, 4:22 am posting.....do you ever get any sleep buddy...lol! Surprised Gary's not posted yet, he's an early riser too. Looking forward to seeing how this all works out.

5:30 here on the east coast...

I responded to Jonathan, in AZ.

I don't know what time it was there!

Can't keep track when they don't follow daylight savings.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary has a DSII tester I gave him a number of years ago (actually traded him for a MAC scope) so he can test and rule the box good or bad and it may also test the coil and resistance wires.

On the fuel pumps, the EEC controls the fuel pump relay, it will pulse during the initial key on, then once the EEC gets the trigger pulse from the hall effect sensor in the distributor, it will turn the relay back on.

Spark plugs, I am using Motorcraft plugs in Darth after previous issues with Autolite plugs (remember, they are now owned by Fram). When I had my shop, I stocked the OEM recommended plugs for each of the US brands, at that time Ford was changing from Autolite to Motorcraft, for GM I had AC, and Chrysler I had Champion. One item I have run into, Bosch platinum plugs and Ford engines do not play together well to the point of the same type of miss Gary has in BB right now.

John - I slept in this morning and looked at a few other threads before settling in on mine.

Bill - What Motorcraft plugs are you running in Darth? I may need to pick up a set so want to be ready with the #.

As for the DS-II tester, yep I have it and know right where it is. When the dust settles on this I'll test this box, but it is obviously bad.

But why your relay is controlled by the EEC, my EEC is still in a tote.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary has a DSII tester I gave him a number of years ago (actually traded him for a MAC scope) so he can test and rule the box good or bad and it may also test the coil and resistance wires.

On the fuel pumps, the EEC controls the fuel pump relay, it will pulse during the initial key on, then once the EEC gets the trigger pulse from the hall effect sensor in the distributor, it will turn the relay back on.

Spark plugs, I am using Motorcraft plugs in Darth after previous issues with Autolite plugs (remember, they are now owned by Fram). When I had my shop, I stocked the OEM recommended plugs for each of the US brands, at that time Ford was changing from Autolite to Motorcraft, for GM I had AC, and Chrysler I had Champion. One item I have run into, Bosch platinum plugs and Ford engines do not play together well to the point of the same type of miss Gary has in BB right now.

Bill, I know how the EEC has a timeout on the PIP pulse.

Yes, Bosch platinum+DSII is a bad combo.

But ill never again use Autolites.

For copper core plugs, NGK V-power UR4 all the way.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Morning, all! Hope your evening and night was as good as mine.

 

First, the plugs are Autolites. And I think that I'll start by pulling them and see what they look like. Then, if that doesn't point to a problem then I'll put them back, confirm the wiring is in the right order (for the 10th time) and fire it up. Then I can do the IR thermometer and the timing light tests.

 

And the first ignition box I used is bad. The tach was wonky. Turn the key on and it would go to 3000 sometimes. When the engine was running it would sometimes drop as the RPM came up. And that's why I changed to the other one, which made a huge difference, both in the way the engine runs awa the tach itself, which is now solid.

 

On the fuel pressure, there is probably 10 gallons of gas in the rear tank. And I know I'm running off of it as the front tank is unplugged. And I'm confused as to why with the engine running I have the pulsing and didn't with the engine off. I think I'll pull the air cleaner, put the switch on the oil pressure switch, and see if I have pulsing with the engine off.

 

But note in the video that the pulses seem to be perfectly timed with the pulses of the engine. Am I imagining that? If it is true, what could cause it? Sloshing of the fuel in the carb causing the float to drop and open?

 

As for getting that pressure down, do we really think that needs to be fixed? If so I do have a deadhead style regulator that was on BB previously. It would be pretty easy to put it in the line between the regulator that is there and the carb. Perhaps that would smooth it out?

 

Gary,I do think you need to figure out the fuel pressure.That behavior can't be right!It may be a symptom, if it's not the cause, of your problem.

[85lebaront2]

John - I slept in this morning and looked at a few other threads before settling in on mine.

Bill - What Motorcraft plugs are you running in Darth? I may need to pick up a set so want to be ready with the #.

As for the DS-II tester, yep I have it and know right where it is. When the dust settles on this I'll test this box, but it is obviously bad.

But why your relay is controlled by the EEC, my EEC is still in a tote.

Motorcraft ASF42C4/SP450A is what I use in Darth which is the same plug the carbureted/DS-II engine takes.

On the fuel pump, remember, the switch for the hot fuel handling package controlled a relay, not the pump directly due to the current draw of the pump. Are you using the Ford switch or the Chrysler one I suggested?

[Gary Lewis]

Motorcraft ASF42C4/SP450A is what I use in Darth which is the same plug the carbureted/DS-II engine takes.

On the fuel pump, remember, the switch for the hot fuel handling package controlled a relay, not the pump directly due to the current draw of the pump. Are you using the Ford switch or the Chrysler one I suggested?

Jim - I agree the fuel problem needs to be solved, although I'm doubting that the bouncing pressure is causing what seems to be a very regular miss. But I think the extra pressure regulator might be the trick.

Bill - I think I'm using the Ford switch and it does control the relay. And thanks for the plug #.

[Machspeed]

Gary,

I do think you need to figure out the fuel pressure.

That behavior can't be right!

It may be a symptom, if it's not the cause, of your problem.

Gary, your venture here is going much like mine did. Recall my bad "New" pickup coil, too much fuel pressure with new fuel pump, etc. I had to laugh when you mentioned checking the firing order for the 10th time. I also pulled the distributor a half dozen times as well. Very frustrating.

I'm with Jim here, and I know this much, my truck ran like crap when I put a new mechanical fuel pump on. Apparently, it was too much pressure for my Edlebrock carb. But, I could smell the gas and the plugs were quickly fowled. I want to see those plugs. Is that fuel pressure gauge new?

[Gary Lewis]

Gary,

I do think you need to figure out the fuel pressure.

That behavior can't be right!

It may be a symptom, if it's not the cause, of your problem.

Gary, your venture here is going much like mine did. Recall my bad "New" pickup coil, too much fuel pressure with new fuel pump, etc. I had to laugh when you mentioned checking the firing order for the 10th time. I also pulled the distributor a half dozen times as well. Very frustrating.

I'm with Jim here, and I know this much, my truck ran like crap when I put a new mechanical fuel pump on. Apparently, it was too much pressure for my Edlebrock carb. But, I could smell the gas and the plugs were quickly fowled. I want to see those plugs. Is that fuel pressure gauge new?

The more I think about it the more I'm coming around to what you guys are saying - that fuel pressure might be the cause of the problem. I've read many, many times that too much pressure causes a poor idle, especially on an Edelbrock.

And while I was able to adjust the idle fuel mix and the RPM responded, what if with that much pressure we are sloshing fuel over into the bore? And on a seemingly regular basis? The overall RPM would probably come down with the AFR change due to the mixture screws, but the slosh would cause it to miss at other times. So, maybe that needs to be my first priority this afternoon.

The gauge itself isn't new, but the regulator is. That gauge was on the dead-head regulator I had on the truck before, so I moved it over to this return-style regulator. But I'll need to move it back when I put the dead-head regulator in after the return-style.

[85lebaront2]

The more I think about it the more I'm coming around to what you guys are saying - that fuel pressure might be the cause of the problem. I've read many, many times that too much pressure causes a poor idle, especially on an Edelbrock.

And while I was able to adjust the idle fuel mix and the RPM responded, what if with that much pressure we are sloshing fuel over into the bore? And on a seemingly regular basis? The overall RPM would probably come down with the AFR change due to the mixture screws, but the slosh would cause it to miss at other times. So, maybe that needs to be my first priority this afternoon.

The gauge itself isn't new, but the regulator is. That gauge was on the dead-head regulator I had on the truck before, so I moved it over to this return-style regulator. But I'll need to move it back when I put the dead-head regulator in after the return-style.

Gary, are you just using the dash oil pressure gauge? If so do you have a mechanical one you can connect? If for some reason the oil pressure is fluctuating due to any of a number of factors it could be causing the switch to be opening and closing. You didn't have the pulses when you jumped the switch to check and set the pressure, so something is now causing this.