Big Blue's Transformation

[85lebaront2]

Ok, I didn't undercoat the tanks, but I did trial-fit the front tank, and had to bend the rear strap a bit to get it to fit right. Then I cut up the inner tube into strips and used contact cement to glue them to the tanks and to the truck where the tanks hit.

 

Then I turned to the fuel lines. First I removed the rear tank lines, which were to run to the switching valve, although I didn't have that. The front lines were already out. Then I checked out the lines from Huck. Turns out there are some damaged connectors and I think I'll have to get a repair kit. However, I'm going to see if I can merge Big Blue's with Huck's.

 

But, I have to figure out exactly how the lines are to run. Fortunately I have the '95 FSM and the illustrations below are going to help a bunch. I'm inserting them here in case someone else needs them.

 

My plans are to end the lines exactly like they need to be for the EFI, meaning with the right connectors at the right locations. Then I plan to create lines that will plug into those connectors and run to the pressure regulator - which, by the way, shipped today.

 

I am going to give you a suggestion, tank vents, Darth, and I suspect Big Blue used a 3/16" line from both tanks. When I took the tanks and lines from Big Ugly (parts truck) the vent lines were 3/8" and the rollover valves had a hose on each that went up on the nearest frame crossmembers. In doing some research I found that the over 8500 GVW trucks did not, even in 1996, have a sealed vapor recovery system. I highly recommend you use the 3/8" vent lines.This also explains why there was a problem in the programming of the EEC-V system (two different purge systems) the smaller engined, lighter trucks use a canister purge valve and the system looks for a tank pressure sensor, the over 8500 GVW trucks use a VMV (Vapor Management Valve) that is controlled by a duty cycle vacuum solenoid and does not look for or need a pressure sensor since the tank(s) will be at atmospheric pressure as they are not sealed.

[Gary Lewis]

I am going to give you a suggestion, tank vents, Darth, and I suspect Big Blue used a 3/16" line from both tanks. When I took the tanks and lines from Big Ugly (parts truck) the vent lines were 3/8" and the rollover valves had a hose on each that went up on the nearest frame crossmembers. In doing some research I found that the over 8500 GVW trucks did not, even in 1996, have a sealed vapor recovery system. I highly recommend you use the 3/8" vent lines.

This also explains why there was a problem in the programming of the EEC-V system (two different purge systems) the smaller engined, lighter trucks use a canister purge valve and the system looks for a tank pressure sensor, the over 8500 GVW trucks use a VMV (Vapor Management Valve) that is controlled by a duty cycle vacuum solenoid and does not look for or need a pressure sensor since the tank(s) will be at atmospheric pressure as they are not sealed.

Thanks, Bill! That's good to know.

Yes, I'd noticed that there is a huge difference on the size of the vapor line, as BB's is tiny compared to Huck's. And the rollover valves, which are expected to arrive today, have the much larger barb.

So, just take it up to a crossmember and put a fuel filter on it to keep varmints and dirt out?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thanks, Bill! That's good to know.

Yes, I'd noticed that there is a huge difference on the size of the vapor line, as BB's is tiny compared to Huck's. And the rollover valves, which are expected to arrive today, have the much larger barb.

So, just take it up to a crossmember and put a fuel filter on it to keep varmints and dirt out?

IIRC they had a funny 'cap with a clip' similar to the rear axle vent tube.

[Gary Lewis]

IIRC they had a funny 'cap with a clip' similar to the rear axle vent tube.

Yep, I was thinking that's probably what they had. I ran across the one for Big Blue's rear axle vent yesterday as I was removing hoses and test-fitting tanks.

But I don't have any more of those, so I'm thinking that a plastic fuel filter pointing down would be the best solution. That way if water gets up that high there should be pressure to keep it from going in. Right?

[85lebaront2]

IIRC they had a funny 'cap with a clip' similar to the rear axle vent tube.

Jim, you are correct. Here is the 1990 front tank installed before it was covered by the bed. One of the issues I ran into, Big Ugly was a standard cab, long bed F250 and the front portion of the vent line was 35" too short and had some bends in it to clear some things as it went down the side of the frame and turned across at the rear cab mount crossmember. There is also a rear section that had either a tee or wye where the front connected. I extended the front portion in the area where the old line had a straight run (I used it as a pattern).

The second line from the front and rear tanks goes to the crossmember behind each tank and has the plastic "cross" with a small cap similar to the axle vents. Front one is visible in this picture running across the frame. They are held by a large clip just after the end cap area.

[Gary Lewis]

Jim, you are correct. Here is the 1990 front tank installed before it was covered by the bed. One of the issues I ran into, Big Ugly was a standard cab, long bed F250 and the front portion of the vent line was 35" too short and had some bends in it to clear some things as it went down the side of the frame and turned across at the rear cab mount crossmember. There is also a rear section that had either a tee or wye where the front connected. I extended the front portion in the area where the old line had a straight run (I used it as a pattern).

The second line from the front and rear tanks goes to the crossmember behind each tank and has the plastic "cross" with a small cap similar to the axle vents. Front one is visible in this picture running across the frame. They are held by a large clip just after the end cap area.

Bill - I'm glad you posted that pic as I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that the roll-over valve had only one outlet and it went to the crossmember and the little button fitting. Instead, you are saying that one side goes to the crossmember and the other side goes to a larger hose and presumably tees with the hose from the rear tank and then goes to the front, probably to the vapor management valve - VMV.

The roll-over valves I ordered are single-sided with the small fitting, like Big Blue or Darth used to have. And my plan was to just take that to the crossmember with a fuel filter. I know I'll have fumes if I park in the garage, but I don't have the VMV and don't want to run one. Is that a problem?

Also, I need your, as well as everyone's, input on repair of the fuel lines. I got the lines cleaned up today and examined them. Turns out 3 of the 4 connectors going to the fuel delivery assemblies are turned 90 degrees from the way they should be. And, since at least 2 others are bad or missing, I'm thinking I'll replace all of them with something like these Dorman 800-117's, although those are 3/8" and I'll also need some 5/16". And I'll need some splices as there are some spots I want to replace..

So, the questions:

1. If I remember correctly I can just heat the tubing and push it over the barbs on the connectors? Right?

2. Is there a kit that has all straight connectors and repair barbs? Or, since I need four 3/8" and two 5/16" connectors, am I better off just buying the pieces separately?

[Rusty_S85]

Jim, you are correct. Here is the 1990 front tank installed before it was covered by the bed. One of the issues I ran into, Big Ugly was a standard cab, long bed F250 and the front portion of the vent line was 35" too short and had some bends in it to clear some things as it went down the side of the frame and turned across at the rear cab mount crossmember. There is also a rear section that had either a tee or wye where the front connected. I extended the front portion in the area where the old line had a straight run (I used it as a pattern).

The second line from the front and rear tanks goes to the crossmember behind each tank and has the plastic "cross" with a small cap similar to the axle vents. Front one is visible in this picture running across the frame. They are held by a large clip just after the end cap area.

Interesting on the vent.

What about the charcoal canister, didnt they still have the same setup for earlier EFI such as 84/85?

Im going to do some digging and see cause I planned on keeping my OE canister tank but never thought about the vent line size from the tank to the canister.

Kinda questioning if its too small now for my aftermarket tbi.

I know inline tube sells the canister vent line but never looked at that as I only looked at the 3/8" metal hardline to make my installation a bit cleaner than rubber hose from tank across transmission to tbi.

~edit~

Never mind, in the ford parts and illustration guide it just references to use bulk tubing and InlineTube offers vapor line but it lists 3/16" vapor line for 1980 - 1989 F150 trucks so a 3/16" vapor line/vent line should be enough for my application.

[salans7]

Interesting on the vent.

What about the charcoal canister, didnt they still have the same setup for earlier EFI such as 84/85?

Im going to do some digging and see cause I planned on keeping my OE canister tank but never thought about the vent line size from the tank to the canister.

Kinda questioning if its too small now for my aftermarket tbi.

I know inline tube sells the canister vent line but never looked at that as I only looked at the 3/8" metal hardline to make my installation a bit cleaner than rubber hose from tank across transmission to tbi.

~edit~

Never mind, in the ford parts and illustration guide it just references to use bulk tubing and InlineTube offers vapor line but it lists 3/16" vapor line for 1980 - 1989 F150 trucks so a 3/16" vapor line/vent line should be enough for my application.

I had to repair the fuel filter connectors (similar to what you posted) after one too many times of sinking my Ranger in mud and then trying to get the connectors off when they were full of dirt.

Yes, you need to heat the lines up. They recommend a heat gun or hot boiling water, but I found that they have to be pretty hot to give you enough time to push them on, they cool rather quickly when you're fiddling around with them. If you can do them outside of the truck, that is your best bet as doing them while laying on my back under the truck was less than ideal.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Bill - I'm glad you posted that pic as I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that the roll-over valve had only one outlet and it went to the crossmember and the little button fitting. Instead, you are saying that one side goes to the crossmember and the other side goes to a larger hose and presumably tees with the hose from the rear tank and then goes to the front, probably to the vapor management valve - VMV.

The roll-over valves I ordered are single-sided with the small fitting, like Big Blue or Darth used to have. And my plan was to just take that to the crossmember with a fuel filter. I know I'll have fumes if I park in the garage, but I don't have the VMV and don't want to run one. Is that a problem?

Also, I need your, as well as everyone's, input on repair of the fuel lines. I got the lines cleaned up today and examined them. Turns out 3 of the 4 connectors going to the fuel delivery assemblies are turned 90 degrees from the way they should be. And, since at least 2 others are bad or missing, I'm thinking I'll replace all of them with something like these Dorman 800-117's, although those are 3/8" and I'll also need some 5/16". And I'll need some splices as there are some spots I want to replace..

So, the questions:

1. If I remember correctly I can just heat the tubing and push it over the barbs on the connectors? Right?

2. Is there a kit that has all straight connectors and repair barbs? Or, since I need four 3/8" and two 5/16" connectors, am I better off just buying the pieces separately?

Put the tube in boiling water and wear gloves pushing it on.

Sometimes you have to inch it into place.

I'm used to kits having pairs of connections.

Though if you're going from that and splicing in line here and there, I'd probably throw it all in the trash and just get new lines already made up.

I mean 34 years for a piece of polymer to be constantly soaking in fuel, and electric pumps in the tanks seems too daring to me.

[85lebaront2]

Bill - I'm glad you posted that pic as I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that the roll-over valve had only one outlet and it went to the crossmember and the little button fitting. Instead, you are saying that one side goes to the crossmember and the other side goes to a larger hose and presumably tees with the hose from the rear tank and then goes to the front, probably to the vapor management valve - VMV.

The roll-over valves I ordered are single-sided with the small fitting, like Big Blue or Darth used to have. And my plan was to just take that to the crossmember with a fuel filter. I know I'll have fumes if I park in the garage, but I don't have the VMV and don't want to run one. Is that a problem?

Also, I need your, as well as everyone's, input on repair of the fuel lines. I got the lines cleaned up today and examined them. Turns out 3 of the 4 connectors going to the fuel delivery assemblies are turned 90 degrees from the way they should be. And, since at least 2 others are bad or missing, I'm thinking I'll replace all of them with something like these Dorman 800-117's, although those are 3/8" and I'll also need some 5/16". And I'll need some splices as there are some spots I want to replace..

So, the questions:

1. If I remember correctly I can just heat the tubing and push it over the barbs on the connectors? Right?

2. Is there a kit that has all straight connectors and repair barbs? Or, since I need four 3/8" and two 5/16" connectors, am I better off just buying the pieces separately?

Two items, first, due to the return lines on the EFI system returning fuel that has run through the nice metal rails on top of a hot engine, there is a greater amount of vapor pressure in the tanks. Second the VMV is the one that does not need the pressure sensor, and unless Core Tuning has finally worked out a solution for that, it will illuminated the MIL. The problem I am getting with the VMV is the code wasn't in the version of BE I had at the time, it is a duty cycle value for the control solenoid. It is now, I just haven't really fiddled with it yet.

On the other question, the EFI 460s have two charcoal canisters in series, one slightly above the other, essentially what Darth had, just no longer has the snakes nest of vacuum lines and dual purge valves, nor the mess of bowl vents and vacuum operated valves for them.

I imagine the reason for the 3/8" vapor lines is due to the fact that the 460 carbureted trucks didn't vent the tanks very well, coupled with the added heat to the returning fuel.

On your lines, I bought a Dorman fuel line repair kit 800-300, it includes 3/8 and 5/16 lines and lots of various shaped and style fittings (says 104 pieces) For what I needed to make up with a 168" wheelbase it was worth it because the longest repair pieces were 24" and needed to be connected together. Same reason I bought a big roll of 3/16" brake tubing so I could replace the lines on the frame.