Big Blue's Transformation

[salans7]

Yes, it is frustrating. I ordered the '95 FSM to have the official word on the axle, only to find out that mine doesn't match what it says.

But I was pleasantly surprised when I talked to the people at Torque King. They really knew what they were talking about and had the parts I needed available. The o-rings, the nuts, the washers, the socket, etc. And while their prices may be a bit higher than other places I've seen, I'm happy to pay it for the consulting.

The era of great customer service and knowledgeable sales people is coming to an end and it's getting hard to find companies like TK. I agree, it is definitely worth the extra price for the peace of mind that what you've ordered will be correct.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, it is frustrating. I ordered the '95 FSM to have the official word on the axle, only to find out that mine doesn't match what it says.

But I was pleasantly surprised when I talked to the people at Torque King. They really knew what they were talking about and had the parts I needed available. The o-rings, the nuts, the washers, the socket, etc. And while their prices may be a bit higher than other places I've seen, I'm happy to pay it for the consulting.

The era of great customer service and knowledgeable sales people is coming to an end and it's getting hard to find companies like TK. I agree, it is definitely worth the extra price for the peace of mind that what you've ordered will be correct.

We are doing it to ourselves by asking questions one place and then buying where it is cheaper. That's why I'm willing to pay both Sky and TK for their help. But I fear that you and I are in the minority.

[ArdWrknTrk]

We are doing it to ourselves by asking questions one place and then buying where it is cheaper. That's why I'm willing to pay both Sky and TK for their help. But I fear that you and I are in the minority.

Things like Amazon's pricing algorithms certainly aren't helping independent retailers....

And yet It sure is a lot easier to order it delivered in a day or two than to spend hours and miles trying to find what you want and it's still in vain because no one carries it in stock.

My accelerator pump is case in point.

Brass v/s plastic

Cheaper

Faster from eBay than the parts store would get it,

and I don't have to get off the couch.

[Steve83]

It also always boils down to the snap ring on the stub shaft not really being necessary.

I wouldn't describe it as unecessary - it's just not what holds the lock in the hub. I consider it VERY important to keep the U-joint centered on the BJ line, but clipping the stub shaft to the lock isn't the ONLY way to do that. It can also be accomplished by a compression spring inside the slip joint in the passenger axle shaft (on IFS), but I'm not familiar with the later designs.

As long as the axleshaft assembly (inner, u-joint, & stub outer) don't "float" in the diff, axle housing, and spindle, then the u-joint will stay in-line. Otherwise, there needs to be SOMETHING holding it there.

https://supermotors.net/getfile/1096490/thumbnail/hubparts-bj.jpg

[grumpin]

Things like Amazon's pricing algorithms certainly aren't helping independent retailers....

And yet It sure is a lot easier to order it delivered in a day or two than to spend hours and miles trying to find what you want and it's still in vain because no one carries it in stock.

My accelerator pump is case in point.

Brass v/s plastic

Cheaper

Faster from eBay than the parts store would get it,

and I don't have to get off the couch.

I like to shop local and I can be fiercely loyal to good businesses. But you make good points.

I was getting a new motorcycle helmet and our local shop didn’t have a good selection. Drove to a bigger city (70 miles) and they didn’t either. Wanted to try one on. Ended up being easier ordering it online.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Things like Amazon's pricing algorithms certainly aren't helping independent retailers....

And yet It sure is a lot easier to order it delivered in a day or two than to spend hours and miles trying to find what you want and it's still in vain because no one carries it in stock.

My accelerator pump is case in point.

Brass v/s plastic

Cheaper

Faster from eBay than the parts store would get it,

and I don't have to get off the couch.

I like to shop local and I can be fiercely loyal to good businesses. But you make good points.

I was getting a new motorcycle helmet and our local shop didn’t have a good selection. Drove to a bigger city (70 miles) and they didn’t either. Wanted to try one on. Ended up being easier ordering it online.

I tried.

NAPA, Advance, CarQuest, Mendel's, Midland truck,. AND I drove to Norwalk to the speed shop.... but they had folded.

So, Advance is close and I ordered an Edelbrock brand pump, but it has a plastic shaft that didn't last but 2 years. They told me a week to have it in store.

I went home and saw that Bill replied that plastic shafts are crap and to get a Carter brand with brass shaft and rubber seal.

$14 on eBay and 2 day delivery USPS first class.

It's a new world we live in.

Adapt or die.

[Gary Lewis]

I tried.NAPA, Advance, CarQuest, Mendel's, Midland truck,. AND I drove to Norwalk to the speed shop.... but they had folded. :nabble_smiley_unhappy:So, Advance is close and I ordered an Edelbrock brand pump, but it has a plastic shaft that didn't last but 2 years. They told me a week to have it in store.I went home and saw that Bill replied that plastic shafts are crap and to get a Carter brand with brass shaft and rubber seal.$14 on eBay and 2 day delivery USPS first class.It's a new world we live in.Adapt or die.

Ok, I sidetracked us, which is no problemo. But, I now want to get back on the mainline and ask a question of y'all.

I'm still puzzling on the differences in the stub axles. From what I see:

 

1. Before April '95: Had the 3-piece locknut/washer/locknut and a snap-ring on the shaft

 

After March '95 according to the '95 FSM: Had the 3-piece locknut/washer/locknut, a steel/plastic/splined thrust washer pack, and a large snap ring inside of the lockouts

 

1995-97 according to Torque King: Had the 3-piece locknut/washer/locknut combo like the before-April '95 had, but didn't have the small snap-ring on the shaft

Is that the way you see it? If so, why the steel/plastic/splined thrust washer pack and a large snap ring inside of the lockouts? Is the '95-97 manual hub/lockout, which I apparently have, shorter and therefore require the thrust washers? And why the large snap ring?

Here are the illustrations again for your viewing pleasure:

 

 

[Nothing Special]

It also always boils down to the snap ring on the stub shaft not really being necessary.

I wouldn't describe it as unecessary - it's just not what holds the lock in the hub. I consider it VERY important to keep the U-joint centered on the BJ line, but clipping the stub shaft to the lock isn't the ONLY way to do that. It can also be accomplished by a compression spring inside the slip joint in the passenger axle shaft (on IFS), but I'm not familiar with the later designs.

As long as the axleshaft assembly (inner, u-joint, & stub outer) don't "float" in the diff, axle housing, and spindle, then the u-joint will stay in-line. Otherwise, there needs to be SOMETHING holding it there.

https://supermotors.net/getfile/1096490/thumbnail/hubparts-bj.jpg

Good point with the TTB. I don't think it's needed with solid axles though, because the inner axle can't get deeper in the diff.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm still puzzling on the differences in the stub axles. From what I see:....

Is that the way you see it? If so, why?.....

Here are the illustrations again for your viewing pleasure....

What I see, and seems odd to me, is that Ford's FSM illustration shows a five lug hub while describing a 250-350.

While Torque King's illustration obviously shows an eight lug hub. (Which would be correct for 250-350)

Where did TK get this exploded view?

From Dana?

It's not likely they drew it themselves, just amended it with the parts they sell.

Why did Ford use a misleading diagram in their official documentation if an accurate one was available to them?

[Steve83]

If so, why the steel/plastic/splined thrust washer pack..?

AFAIK, the original design used a single thick steel splined washer labelled 3B458:

https://supermotors.net/getfile/72047/thumbnail/b35.jpg

https://supermotors.net/getfile/170464/thumbnail/autolock5screw.jpg

After a few years, it was revised to the 3-piece washer stack (to reduce wear/noise/harshness, I GUESS), all labelled 3B458:

https://supermotors.net/getfile/757655/thumbnail/autolock8593.jpg

And why the large snap ring?

I'm not sure which one you're talking about.

...the inner axle can't get deeper in the diff.

What stops it? Remember that they have to design for failure modes & wear.

BTW

I've lost track of what make/model/year axle we're talking about...

Why did Ford use a misleading diagram in their official documentation if an accurate one was available to them?

They're just as human as the rest of us. I've lost count of how many errors I've found in all the Ford (& other makers') manuals & diagrams I've used.