Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

I've never tried using a spindexer or rotary table to put a head on a bolt.

Used to have 4,6 &8 sided collet blocks.

Capture the bolt in a 4C collet and just flip the block in the mill vise.

Alright, if no room for a regular nut, do you think you're going to have room for the heat shield tab and an extra nut to hold it???

I've not used anything but round collets. But I can see that a 6-sided one would be very handy.

Anyway, the $64,000 question is exactly that - can I get the heat shield tab and a nut in there? I don't want to bend the heat shields up too much, so it is questionable. But I'll see what I think is possible tomorrow. I have a piece of all-thread and I'll run it in there and see if the heat shield will go on. If so, then put a nut on and see. It is gonna be CLOSE!

But that begs the question of how necessary the heat shields are. Didn't have them before and the wires survived. How badly do I need them?

[ArdWrknTrk]

I've not used anything but round collets. But I can see that a 6-sided one would be very handy.

Anyway, the $64,000 question is exactly that - can I get the heat shield tab and a nut in there? I don't want to bend the heat shields up too much, so it is questionable. But I'll see what I think is possible tomorrow. I have a piece of all-thread and I'll run it in there and see if the heat shield will go on. If so, then put a nut on and see. It is gonna be CLOSE!

But that begs the question of how necessary the heat shields are. Didn't have them before and the wires survived. How badly do I need them?

The round collet tightens into various polygonal blocks that are accurately machined.

Then once a cylindrical workpiece is chucked in them it's a simple matter to set a backstop and flip the block in the milling vise.

Ford didn't include them for no reason...

I've never seen headers that run cooler than manifolds. There just isn't the mass and thickness to regulate heat.

Maybe Jet-Hot will help?

That's why chrome everything in an engine bay used to be so popular.

It would reflect heat both away -and back into- whatever was plated.

 

[85lebaront2]

I've not used anything but round collets. But I can see that a 6-sided one would be very handy.

Anyway, the $64,000 question is exactly that - can I get the heat shield tab and a nut in there? I don't want to bend the heat shields up too much, so it is questionable. But I'll see what I think is possible tomorrow. I have a piece of all-thread and I'll run it in there and see if the heat shield will go on. If so, then put a nut on and see. It is gonna be CLOSE!

But that begs the question of how necessary the heat shields are. Didn't have them before and the wires survived. How badly do I need them?

Gary, first item, the heat shield goes in further than you have it, it shields the plug wire ends from the exhaust port heat. Second, the tabs are bendable, I would pull at least the close in bolt on the front of # 6 exhaust port and see if the tab can be bent to go over that hole, then drill a new hole in the tab. Maybe the same thing on the tab to the rear bolt on # 7 exhaust port.

This begs the question, how do you plan on mounting the coil bracket? It goes from the rear vertical stud/bolt at the middle of the intake manifold to the outside of the short stud/bolt on the front side of # 8 exhaust port.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, first item, the heat shield goes in further than you have it, it shields the plug wire ends from the exhaust port heat. Second, the tabs are bendable, I would pull at least the close in bolt on the front of # 6 exhaust port and see if the tab can be bent to go over that hole, then drill a new hole in the tab. Maybe the same thing on the tab to the rear bolt on # 7 exhaust port.

This begs the question, how do you plan on mounting the coil bracket? It goes from the rear vertical stud/bolt at the middle of the intake manifold to the outside of the short stud/bolt on the front side of # 8 exhaust port.

Bill - That reminds me of a line from one of my favorite movies: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

Seriously though, you have a valid point. The EFI coil does mount back there. So I'd better make plans for it now as well. Does it use a similar stud? I need to pull that out and see how it mounts, ensuring that the dip stick mount won't interfere. And maybe make a stud for it as well while I'm, maybe, making them.

As for the heat shields, I thought they probably went in farther, but was in my street clothes last night and was just checking for fit. I'll get down and dirty, literally, in a bit and see how they can be used.

And I'll keep in mind bending and re-drilling the tabs. Might make it easier as I might be able to use the studs Jim found. But my worry is that they are going to be too long as they are surely designed to go through the manifold, which is thicker, and space the shields out to the right distance.

Jim - Hopefully the Jet-Hot coating will help, but that only makes the shields work even better. I'll see what I can do to get them in there.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Bill - That reminds me of a line from one of my favorite movies: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

Seriously though, you have a valid point. The EFI coil does mount back there. So I'd better make plans for it now as well. Does it use a similar stud? I need to pull that out and see how it mounts, ensuring that the dip stick mount won't interfere. And maybe make a stud for it as well while I'm, maybe, making them.

As for the heat shields, I thought they probably went in farther, but was in my street clothes last night and was just checking for fit. I'll get down and dirty, literally, in a bit and see how they can be used.

And I'll keep in mind bending and re-drilling the tabs. Might make it easier as I might be able to use the studs Jim found. But my worry is that they are going to be too long as they are surely designed to go through the manifold, which is thicker, and space the shields out to the right distance.

Jim - Hopefully the Jet-Hot coating will help, but that only makes the shields work even better. I'll see what I can do to get them in there.

Have you considered adapting the DSII coil mount?

I know the EEC coil is m vs f, but does the harness have enough reach?

Is there a stud and a bolt on the eft front of the EFI manifold?

[Gary Lewis]

Have you considered adapting the DSII coil mount?

I know the EEC coil is m vs f, but does the harness have enough reach?

Is there a stud and a bolt on the eft front of the EFI manifold?

Man, Moriarty got up early this morning.

No, I've not considered the DS-II coil for use with the EEC, but would like to keep the EEC coil as I know it is compatible with the electronics. However, you bring up the very next (of many) questions - where do I put the DS-II coil, after I blast off the red paint? I've not looked but must do.

Basically I'm into a whole series of questions, including:

• Where do the plug wires need to run? This is crucial to the question of how or if to use the dip stick stay as a plug wire guide.

• Where does the DS-II coil mount, and it needs to be close to the stock carb'd 460 location to use the stock DS-II wiring.

• How does the EEC coil mount? This is key to making a dip stick stay as it shouldn't get in the way.

• How does the heat shield mount, and can its mounting be incorporated in the EEC coil mounting? Or can learnings from one be applied to the other?

I think installing the dizzy should be done in the near term and I find out how the wires should run. In fact, as I think about it, before I nail down the heat shields I should get the new plugs in. Then set it on TDC and install the dizzy. Then lay the wires out and make sure the boots will work with the heat shields. And find out how the wires need to run and if the dip stick stay can be of service.

[85lebaront2]

Bill - That reminds me of a line from one of my favorite movies: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

Seriously though, you have a valid point. The EFI coil does mount back there. So I'd better make plans for it now as well. Does it use a similar stud? I need to pull that out and see how it mounts, ensuring that the dip stick mount won't interfere. And maybe make a stud for it as well while I'm, maybe, making them.

As for the heat shields, I thought they probably went in farther, but was in my street clothes last night and was just checking for fit. I'll get down and dirty, literally, in a bit and see how they can be used.

And I'll keep in mind bending and re-drilling the tabs. Might make it easier as I might be able to use the studs Jim found. But my worry is that they are going to be too long as they are surely designed to go through the manifold, which is thicker, and space the shields out to the right distance.

Jim - Hopefully the Jet-Hot coating will help, but that only makes the shields work even better. I'll see what I can do to get them in there.

If you look at the picture I posted of the left side it should answer some of the questions. Ford used a few different mounts for the E-core TFI coil and the 460 coil is on a bracket that is attached to the larger over the valve cover one with two 1/4-20 studs and nuts. I am pretty sure you can use that and and make a very pretty (and functional) mount for it. You don't need the two or three solenoid valves that sit there normally so it could be done easily.

Jim, unlike the DS-II coil, the TFI uses no ballast resistor, just a straight 12V feed (like an HEI, just not as big a current hog).

[ArdWrknTrk]

Man, Moriarty got up early this morning.

No, I've not considered the DS-II coil for use with the EEC, but would like to keep the EEC coil as I know it is compatible with the electronics. However, you bring up the very next (of many) questions - where do I put the DS-II coil, after I blast off the red paint? I've not looked but must do.

Basically I'm into a whole series of questions, including:

• Where do the plug wires need to run? This is crucial to the question of how or if to use the dip stick stay as a plug wire guide.

• Where does the DS-II coil mount, and it needs to be close to the stock carb'd 460 location to use the stock DS-II wiring.

• How does the EEC coil mount? This is key to making a dip stick stay as it shouldn't get in the way.

• How does the heat shield mount, and can its mounting be incorporated in the EEC coil mounting? Or can learnings from one be applied to the other?

I think installing the dizzy should be done in the near term and I find out how the wires should run. In fact, as I think about it, before I nail down the heat shields I should get the new plugs in. Then set it on TDC and install the dizzy. Then lay the wires out and make sure the boots will work with the heat shields. And find out how the wires need to run and if the dip stick stay can be of service.

I know about the coil and resistor wire.

thats why late Bullnose trucks have two sets of ignition plugs

I suggested adapting the DSII coil MOUNT to hold the EEC (square) coil.

You know how it mounts in the front corner of the intake.

I don't know if the EFI harness reaches.

Plug wire routing should be fine.

You can buy 'trim to length' cables for any application.

Just keep 7&8 separated, as you already know.

[Gary Lewis]

If you look at the picture I posted of the left side it should answer some of the questions. Ford used a few different mounts for the E-core TFI coil and the 460 coil is on a bracket that is attached to the larger over the valve cover one with two 1/4-20 studs and nuts. I am pretty sure you can use that and and make a very pretty (and functional) mount for it. You don't need the two or three solenoid valves that sit there normally so it could be done easily.

Jim, unlike the DS-II coil, the TFI uses no ballast resistor, just a straight 12V feed (like an HEI, just not as big a current hog).

Jim - Ok, I think I understand. But I think I've worked out where to put the DS-II coil. This is probably the coil off of Dad's truck and I may or may not use it but do plan to use that mount and put the leg under that bolt head on the lower plenum.

The only issue is the female to male adaptor. That's the red thing, which was on Big Blue's coil. And the coil wire Scotty sent me also expects a male connector on the coil. So I could just use that adapter. However, is there a coil that comes with a male terminal and would accept the Ford horseshoe connector and fit in that bracket?

And now for the EEC coil. Here's the bracket that Bill mentioned with the coil bolted to it. The red tape is to protect the valve cover, but does serve to point out how much real estate is wasted on the top of that bracket for things I won't have.

Also note where the leg of the bracket comes off - the back side of the bracket. So I can't easily just cut the back half off. However, read on....

This pic shows a closer view of the leg and its proximity to the dip stick stay. The stay needs to come out a bit farther from the valve cover to allow a bolt to go into it to hold the dip stick. And that will put it up against the leg. So why not cut the leg off there, grind off the lip on the back edge, and bend it to just touch the stay. Drill the leg, drill and tap the stay, and put a bolt in there.

And, if I really wanted to reduce the real estate on the top I could cut the back 2" off and put that piece under the front piece and weld it on. That would still maintain the lips that provide strength but make the bracket only 2/3 its existing size - 4" vs 6". And the trick with the leg bolting to the stay would still apply.

Thoughts?

[85lebaront2]

Jim - Ok, I think I understand. But I think I've worked out where to put the DS-II coil. This is probably the coil off of Dad's truck and I may or may not use it but do plan to use that mount and put the leg under that bolt head on the lower plenum.

The only issue is the female to male adaptor. That's the red thing, which was on Big Blue's coil. And the coil wire Scotty sent me also expects a male connector on the coil. So I could just use that adapter. However, is there a coil that comes with a male terminal and would accept the Ford horseshoe connector and fit in that bracket?

And now for the EEC coil. Here's the bracket that Bill mentioned with the coil bolted to it. The red tape is to protect the valve cover, but does serve to point out how much real estate is wasted on the top of that bracket for things I won't have.

Also note where the leg of the bracket comes off - the back side of the bracket. So I can't easily just cut the back half off. However, read on....

This pic shows a closer view of the leg and its proximity to the dip stick stay. The stay needs to come out a bit farther from the valve cover to allow a bolt to go into it to hold the dip stick. And that will put it up against the leg. So why not cut the leg off there, grind off the lip on the back edge, and bend it to just touch the stay. Drill the leg, drill and tap the stay, and put a bolt in there.

And, if I really wanted to reduce the real estate on the top I could cut the back 2" off and put that piece under the front piece and weld it on. That would still maintain the lips that provide strength but make the bracket only 2/3 its existing size - 4" vs 6". And the trick with the leg bolting to the stay would still apply.

Thoughts?

Sounds like a plan sir! However, to quote a late friend, "too logical, won't work".