Big Blue's Transformation

[salans7]

THIS sort of thing is exactly why I made my comment about L&L's ,,,, poor development.

I'm really glad it's not me.

I would probably be going to jail after I drove down there and did what I would with that header.

I've been looking at their 460 swap kits as they have a lot of the parts I need to shoehorn one into my 300/302/351 crossmember, but after reading this there's no way I'm going with their headers, which means I have to purchase the parts individually, and now I'm wondering if there's somebody else who makes these parts because I remember Gary having issues getting the headers delivered in the first place.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

THIS sort of thing is exactly why I made my comment about L&L's ,,,, poor development.

I'm really glad it's not me.

I would probably be going to jail after I drove down there and did what I would with that header.

I've been looking at their 460 swap kits as they have a lot of the parts I need to shoehorn one into my 300/302/351 crossmember, but after reading this there's no way I'm going with their headers, which means I have to purchase the parts individually, and now I'm wondering if there's somebody else who makes these parts because I remember Gary having issues getting the headers delivered in the first place.

And he had clearance issues with the carb head headers before this....

I can see that *if they come with a warning that you need to clearance the frame*

But having to cut the bellhousing and not being able to get the bolts in, and having to inch those special, reduced head bolts into place is 🐂

[85lebaront2]

And he had clearance issues with the carb head headers before this....

I can see that *if they come with a warning that you need to clearance the frame*

But having to cut the bellhousing and not being able to get the bolts in, and having to inch those special, reduced head bolts into place is 🐂

And you wonder why I said "no way in hell" on headers in a truck. You would have to prove a minimum of 25% increase in power over what I have now for me to even consider it. I had two cars, both small Windsor V8s, a 260 in a 1964 Falcon and a Cobra 289 in a 1966 GT350. The Falcon had Hedman Headers as they were the only tuned headers made for the pre-1966 Falcon and Comet, the Shelby came with Shelby's tri-Y headers and when they started rusting out I bought a pair of Hookers and their Header mufflers. The Hookers were the 1 5/8 primary and 3" collector models specified for Shelby and 351W engines only, all other Windsors took 1 1/2" primaries and 2 1/2" collectors.

The Falcon was a royal PITA to work on with headers, the left side came down, curved under the frame and back in on the rear tubes in order to get enough length. They passed between the frame, steering column and box and engine. The clutch cross shaft had to come out and it had to go in from below with the car pretty high off the ground, right side was a little better but not much due to the short hood length.

The Shelby was better, left side was still a pain due the the clutch cross shaft, right side I could take the muffler loose, pull the plug wires and take it out from the top with the car on the ground.

I had a stack of real asbestos header gaskets in my garage so I didn't have to go find some when I needed them.

[Gary Lewis]

And you wonder why I said "no way in hell" on headers in a truck. You would have to prove a minimum of 25% increase in power over what I have now for me to even consider it. I had two cars, both small Windsor V8s, a 260 in a 1964 Falcon and a Cobra 289 in a 1966 GT350. The Falcon had Hedman Headers as they were the only tuned headers made for the pre-1966 Falcon and Comet, the Shelby came with Shelby's tri-Y headers and when they started rusting out I bought a pair of Hookers and their Header mufflers. The Hookers were the 1 5/8 primary and 3" collector models specified for Shelby and 351W engines only, all other Windsors took 1 1/2" primaries and 2 1/2" collectors.

The Falcon was a royal PITA to work on with headers, the left side came down, curved under the frame and back in on the rear tubes in order to get enough length. They passed between the frame, steering column and box and engine. The clutch cross shaft had to come out and it had to go in from below with the car pretty high off the ground, right side was a little better but not much due to the short hood length.

The Shelby was better, left side was still a pain due the the clutch cross shaft, right side I could take the muffler loose, pull the plug wires and take it out from the top with the car on the ground.

I had a stack of real asbestos header gaskets in my garage so I didn't have to go find some when I needed them.

This is the 2nd set of headers I've installed, and both were a problem. Plus, as Jim said, the 460 carb headers, which I didn't install, hit the perch on the driver's side on Big Blue. So I'm not a fan of headers.

But, as said, I have a ton of money in these so will do my best to make them work. And I think I can get there. But I sure wouldn't advise anyone else to do this.

In fact, do y'all think it would be helpful to consolidate my experiences with L&L and these headers in one thread? That way we could refer folks to something a bit more concise if they are thinking of doing this?

Having said that, Janey and I are headed out tomorrow. Have a grocery run to make to Owasso and may have our first meal out in a month - drive through style. So I won't be working on the truck tomorrow. Maybe it'll go together better on Thursday.

[85lebaront2]

This is the 2nd set of headers I've installed, and both were a problem. Plus, as Jim said, the 460 carb headers, which I didn't install, hit the perch on the driver's side on Big Blue. So I'm not a fan of headers.

But, as said, I have a ton of money in these so will do my best to make them work. And I think I can get there. But I sure wouldn't advise anyone else to do this.

In fact, do y'all think it would be helpful to consolidate my experiences with L&L and these headers in one thread? That way we could refer folks to something a bit more concise if they are thinking of doing this?

Having said that, Janey and I are headed out tomorrow. Have a grocery run to make to Owasso and may have our first meal out in a month - drive through style. So I won't be working on the truck tomorrow. Maybe it'll go together better on Thursday.

Are you going to offer comital papers for those who want to try it?

[Gary Lewis]

Are you going to offer comital papers for those who want to try it?

Perhaps we could draw up a set that we could offer should they be foolish enough to try. Might include terminology like "In spite of all the warnings I've received". Or "I, being of less than sound mind, am embarking on this journey knowing full well the perils that lie ahead." And they surely must include "By signing here you waive and forfeit all rights to complaining, whining, griping, or crying out loud."

[ArdWrknTrk]

Perhaps we could draw up a set that we could offer should they be foolish enough to try. Might include terminology like "In spite of all the warnings I've received". Or "I, being of less than sound mind, am embarking on this journey knowing full well the perils that lie ahead." And they surely must include "By signing here you waive and forfeit all rights to complaining, whining, griping, or crying out loud."

I nominate you for sainthood.

You're not griping, just doing your best to get it done.

Maybe the last set were an omen that needed to be heeded?

I hope the two of you have an enjoyable day sprung from isolation.

[Gary Lewis]

I nominate you for sainthood.

You're not griping, just doing your best to get it done.

Maybe the last set were an omen that needed to be heeded?

I hope the two of you have an enjoyable day sprung from isolation.

Thanks, Jim. We are looking forward to the outing. In the last 5 weeks I think we have been away from the house 3 times for Walmart to put groceries in the back, 1 time for a local chain to do the same, and 3 trips to the shipping place. So to go for a drive, eat out, and stay gone for hours is going to feel liberating.

But, in those 5 weeks I've done a lot of things on the truck. However, some of those have been done several times.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Jim. We are looking forward to the outing. In the last 5 weeks I think we have been away from the house 3 times for Walmart to put groceries in the back, 1 time for a local chain to do the same, and 3 trips to the shipping place. So to go for a drive, eat out, and stay gone for hours is going to feel liberating.

But, in those 5 weeks I've done a lot of things on the truck. However, some of those have been done several times.

Turns out that we got home earlier than expected since it was raining cats and dogs and we didn't want to make one of the stops we had planned. So, I got out to the shop today, and the first thing I did was to cut a piece of heavy paper to fit the engine plate, registering on the starter bolt holes. Then I transferred that to the tranny and a bit of the paper stuck of the edge, as shown below. Given that, the tranny is slightly smaller than the engine plate, and the engine plate clears so the tranny should.

If that's true, then why not install the tranny? So took the header loose and pulled it over against the frame for clearance. And with a bit of pushing and shoving the tranny went in. Here's a shot from the front showing that none of the tranny is peeking out past the engine plate.

And here is a shot from the rear showing about 1/8" of clearance. But the header isn't tightened down yet, so it'll move. However, since there was 1/8" clearance to the engine plate when it was tightened down before, I think I'll have that much clearance when I tighten it down - tomorrow.

[Gary Lewis]

Turns out that we got home earlier than expected since it was raining cats and dogs and we didn't want to make one of the stops we had planned. So, I got out to the shop today, and the first thing I did was to cut a piece of heavy paper to fit the engine plate, registering on the starter bolt holes. Then I transferred that to the tranny and a bit of the paper stuck of the edge, as shown below. Given that, the tranny is slightly smaller than the engine plate, and the engine plate clears so the tranny should.

If that's true, then why not install the tranny? So took the header loose and pulled it over against the frame for clearance. And with a bit of pushing and shoving the tranny went in. Here's a shot from the front showing that none of the tranny is peeking out past the engine plate.

And here is a shot from the rear showing about 1/8" of clearance. But the header isn't tightened down yet, so it'll move. However, since there was 1/8" clearance to the engine plate when it was tightened down before, I think I'll have that much clearance when I tighten it down - tomorrow.

Do you want the good news or the bad news first? Oh, the good news! One bit of good news is that there is no bad news. Just another layer needing to be peeled - and that is finding a dip stick.

I actually have three dip sticks: The universal braided one that is on Big Blue's old engine; the NOS one Vernon included with Big Blue; and the one that came on Huck, which fits the pan I'm using and which has an o-ring fitting. That leaves the one on the old engine out as it screws in. And the NOS one is way too short. So I tried using the one that came on Huck, but it is going to take a lot of bending in order to get around the header, and I'm not sure I am good enough to do that.

Given that, I called Scott and he recommended getting one from Lokar. But, I took a look at their site and got confused. Do any of y'all know which one might be needed? Or do you know of other options?

But, back to the good news - the passenger's side header didn't move when I torqued it down, so I have the same 1/8" of clearance to the tranny as I did before torquing. And, I did torque it down, to the best of my ability. The book says to start torquing in the center and work out, so I did. And luckily the one I started with was accessible with a socket, so I torqued it to 30 lb-ft. Then I tested it with my 3/8" Craftsman box/open wrench and learned that 30 lb-ft is about all I can do by hand. So that's how I "torqued" the others, twice around.

With that done I added the tranny crossmember and gussets and took this shot:

But, you can see in that pic that the clutch slave cylinder isn't installed. However, about that time the postman brought the clutch lever boot, so I installed the lever, boot, and slave, as shown here:

That was my day and now I'm toast and awaiting your comments, especially on the dip stick.......