ArdWrknTrk Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 Jim - That's a good idea. I'll have to figure out what I have, but I'm thinking the standard ones are 3/8". So the oversized one is 7/16. Let me see.... Yep, the stock size is 3/8-16 While you may have lost the opportunity for a Helicoil, you can find something like a Time-sert or Keen-sert that fits in a larger NC hole and gives you the threads you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted April 19, 2020 Author Share Posted April 19, 2020 Yep, the stock size is 3/8-16 While you may have lost the opportunity for a Helicoil, you can find something like a Time-sert or Keen-sert that fits in a larger NC hole and gives you the threads you need. Jim - Are you saying there's an insert that will convert 7/16-14 to 3/8-16"? I've not looked as I've been busy.... I pulled the driver's side header and put a G8 bolt in an exhaust port hole and lifted the engine just enough to slip two 5/16" pieces of scrap between the driver's side mount and the perch, which got me the clearance shown below. The clearance is 5/32" (.156"), although a 11/64" (.172") bit will fit in that notch and almost clear. I'm not too happy about that little bit of clearance, and while I have both 5/16" and 3/8" stock with which to make the spacer, I'm thinking the thing to do is to pull the header off and trim the frame a bit. I'm thinking trimming it like this. What'cha think? How much should I trim? How much clearance do I need? Is 1/4" enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 Jim - Are you saying there's an insert that will convert 7/16-14 to 3/8-16"? I've not looked as I've been busy.... I pulled the driver's side header and put a G8 bolt in an exhaust port hole and lifted the engine just enough to slip two 5/16" pieces of scrap between the driver's side mount and the perch, which got me the clearance shown below. The clearance is 5/32" (.156"), although a 11/64" (.172") bit will fit in that notch and almost clear. I'm not too happy about that little bit of clearance, and while I have both 5/16" and 3/8" stock with which to make the spacer, I'm thinking the thing to do is to pull the header off and trim the frame a bit. I'm thinking trimming it like this. What'cha think? How much should I trim? How much clearance do I need? Is 1/4" enough? Gary, A 3/8-16 Keensert takes a 1/2-13 hole. I don't know if there's room for that. I would certainly want more clearance than that. If you're going to pull the *tranny, to pull the header, why not just heat it up and make a lip rather than going at it with a die grinder? It'll be stronger, and the flange will be rolled out of the way. Off to check on the pilot for a Timesert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 Gary, A 3/8-16 Keensert takes a 1/2-13 hole. I don't know if there's room for that. I would certainly want more clearance than that. If you're going to pull the *tranny, to pull the header, why not just heat it up and make a lip rather than going at it with a die grinder? It'll be stronger, and the flange will be rolled out of the way. Off to check on the pilot for a Timesert According to this: http://www.timesert.com/html/engineeringdataI.html The major diameter of a 3/8-16 Timesert is ~7/16. Of course, like a Helicoil, the pitch is going to be 16 not 14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted April 19, 2020 Author Share Posted April 19, 2020 According to this: http://www.timesert.com/html/engineeringdataI.html The major diameter of a 3/8-16 Timesert is ~7/16. Of course, like a Helicoil, the pitch is going to be 16 not 14. Yes, I'm finding that the minor diameter for 7/16-14 is less than the major diameter of 3/8-16, so that's not going to work. I guess I'll just use a stainless SHCS for that hole. As for the frame, you are right - if I have the header out I could put a lip on the frame. But I only have MAPP gas. Think it'll do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 Yes, I'm finding that the minor diameter for 7/16-14 is less than the major diameter of 3/8-16, so that's not going to work. I guess I'll just use a stainless SHCS for that hole. As for the frame, you are right - if I have the header out I could put a lip on the frame. But I only have MAPP gas. Think it'll do it? No, I don't think mapp gas is going to get enough heat in fast enough to soften the edge of the framerail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramttocs Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Yes, I'm finding that the minor diameter for 7/16-14 is less than the major diameter of 3/8-16, so that's not going to work. I guess I'll just use a stainless SHCS for that hole. As for the frame, you are right - if I have the header out I could put a lip on the frame. But I only have MAPP gas. Think it'll do it? Rolling it and not removing any material would be ideal but I wouldn't think twice about grinding to your red line. I only say that because I did enough thinking and fretting before I took that same jutt off the top to give me some clearance Speaking of the heating route - is there any concern with heating the frame that hot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Rolling it and not removing any material would be ideal but I wouldn't think twice about grinding to your red line. I only say that because I did enough thinking and fretting before I took that same jutt off the top to give me some clearance Speaking of the heating route - is there any concern with heating the frame that hot? I wouldn't be concerned. There's work hardening of the stamping being annealed (locally) but as long as you don't quench it no chance of embrittlement. It's not like these things are made of 4140, or stressed that highly. ETA: I would definitely make more clearance than Gary shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 I wouldn't be concerned. There's work hardening of the stamping being annealed (locally) but as long as you don't quench it no chance of embrittlement. It's not like these things are made of 4140, or stressed that highly. ETA: I would definitely make more clearance than Gary shows. Morning, guys. Yes, I'm getting more clearance than the ~1/8" it has. But I don't have enough heat to bend it, so will grind. However, my remembrance is that Ford said don't weld to the frame. I also remember an exchange with Steve83 where I couldn't put my fingers on exactly where the documentation says that, so perhaps I'm wrong. But, if I'm right, they don't want you heating it that much. If so, does that suggest that the frames where heat treated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Morning, guys. Yes, I'm getting more clearance than the ~1/8" it has. But I don't have enough heat to bend it, so will grind. However, my remembrance is that Ford said don't weld to the frame. I also remember an exchange with Steve83 where I couldn't put my fingers on exactly where the documentation says that, so perhaps I'm wrong. But, if I'm right, they don't want you heating it that much. If so, does that suggest that the frames where heat treated? You don't want to weld on it because you can create a hard point subject to future cracking. I told you this when you wanted to gusset the crossmember in dad's truck. Heating, and allowing it to cool isn't going to 'pull' like a weld can. I know plenty of DOT weldors that do "what you aren't supposed to" all day, every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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