Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

TRANSFORMATION!

All I can think of here:

Dane - I do think there is a lot of "suggestive reading" going on. I've read on so many other forums what people have said about the F250 4x4's, and I find myself agreeing with them. Then when I drive Big Blue I observe just what they said. But, prior to that it wasn't so bad.

Jim - I do hope you are right. And I do believe that you are. It makes sense that with the very limited travel that the off-road manners will be poor, and there will be many spots where the front will lose traction because of that. And if the on-road ride is anything to judge by, the off-road ride will be bone-jarring.

Basically, I believe I need a soft, supple suspension. That would not only give the best possible off-road traction but it would also make the trip to and fro the off-road experience much more enjoyable. So in addition to the changes up front I'm leaning toward using air bags in back to supplement a much softer spring pack.

I've also been thinking about the sway bar. I wonder if the weird geometry of the TTB's is why the F250 sway bar makes the front so much harsher? And, if so, will the simple geometry of the straight axle work nicely with its sway bar? Or is a sway bar even needed? I'm not running one now and the only difference I noticed was a less-bad ride.

Matthew - That's a good one. Big Blue's looks won't change that dramatically, but under the skin the rest of him sure will: D44 TTB to D60 w/SD springs & an RSK; Carburetion to SEFI; T19 to ZF5; headers hitting the frame & glass packs to stock manifolds or shorties & Magnaflows; 60A 1G to 160A 3G; Sawzalled crossmember to fully-repaired one; C2 pump and vacuum boost w/a cast iron master to Saginaw pump providing hydroboost to a system w/an F450 master; 7 leaves in the rear springs to something far less with maybe air bags to supplement; etc.

And, speaking of fully repairing the crossmember, I spoke to Scott/WelderScott at church about it today. He runs Victor Welding in Tulsa and is apparently licensed to weld anything to anything. I told him what the problem is and he said he'd come over when the time comes and either give me instructions or, better yet, weld the crossmember up. And, he wants to fishplate it as well.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Dane - I do think there is a lot of "suggestive reading" going on. I've read on so many other forums what people have said about the F250 4x4's, and I find myself agreeing with them. Then when I drive Big Blue I observe just what they said. But, prior to that it wasn't so bad.

Jim - I do hope you are right. And I do believe that you are. It makes sense that with the very limited travel that the off-road manners will be poor, and there will be many spots where the front will lose traction because of that. And if the on-road ride is anything to judge by, the off-road ride will be bone-jarring.

Basically, I believe I need a soft, supple suspension. That would not only give the best possible off-road traction but it would also make the trip to and fro the off-road experience much more enjoyable. So in addition to the changes up front I'm leaning toward using air bags in back to supplement a much softer spring pack.

I've also been thinking about the sway bar. I wonder if the weird geometry of the TTB's is why the F250 sway bar makes the front so much harsher? And, if so, will the simple geometry of the straight axle work nicely with its sway bar? Or is a sway bar even needed? I'm not running one now and the only difference I noticed was a less-bad ride.

Matthew - That's a good one. Big Blue's looks won't change that dramatically, but under the skin the rest of him sure will: D44 TTB to D60 w/SD springs & an RSK; Carburetion to SEFI; T19 to ZF5; headers hitting the frame & glass packs to stock manifolds or shorties & Magnaflows; 60A 1G to 160A 3G; Sawzalled crossmember to fully-repaired one; C2 pump and vacuum boost w/a cast iron master to Saginaw pump providing hydroboost to a system w/an F450 master; 7 leaves in the rear springs to something far less with maybe air bags to supplement; etc.

And, speaking of fully repairing the crossmember, I spoke to Scott/WelderScott at church about it today. He runs Victor Welding in Tulsa and is apparently licensed to weld anything to anything. I told him what the problem is and he said he'd come over when the time comes and either give me instructions or, better yet, weld the crossmember up. And, he wants to fishplate it as well.

I think the sway bar is just helping the inside wheel planted with such limited suspension.

Where a taller truck with softer springs would roll too much, (anti roll bar) when the off side of a 250 hits the bump stops it IS going to lift the inside wheel.

It also brings both dampers into play.

We had that discussion the other day.

Personally I think you should get Big Blue fully outfitted before deciding on a rear spring.

Air bags are great for occasional trailering or carryng a load of wet sand.

Being on the trail with a month's worth of provisions and losing an air line or tearing a bag is going to make for dangerous going.

I know I always have 7-800# in the bed. If I had softer springs it wouldn't ride level and likely wallow.

How much is your air receiver/ bumper going to weigh?

How much is an additional 19 gallons of gasoline, cantilevered past the rear axle?

How will mounting a high lift Jack and the spare up that high change the CG?

Speaking of.... you might ask Scott about welding a pressure vessel.

The guys I knew that were certified for nukes/ subs/ airframes would have a lot of knowledge to share about something like that.

[Gary Lewis]

I think the sway bar is just helping the inside wheel planted with such limited suspension.

Where a taller truck with softer springs would roll too much, (anti roll bar) when the off side of a 250 hits the bump stops it IS going to lift the inside wheel.

It also brings both dampers into play.

We had that discussion the other day.

Personally I think you should get Big Blue fully outfitted before deciding on a rear spring.

Air bags are great for occasional trailering or carryng a load of wet sand.

Being on the trail with a month's worth of provisions and losing an air line or tearing a bag is going to make for dangerous going.

I know I always have 7-800# in the bed. If I had softer springs it wouldn't ride level and likely wallow.

How much is your air receiver/ bumper going to weigh?

How much is an additional 19 gallons of gasoline, cantilevered past the rear axle?

How will mounting a high lift Jack and the spare up that high change the CG?

Speaking of.... you might ask Scott about welding a pressure vessel.

The guys I knew that were certified for nukes/ subs/ airframes would have a lot of knowledge to share about something like that.

Good point about the rear springs. I don't know how much the rear bumper will weigh, but it'll be substantial. Plus it'll have the spare moved back from right over the rear axle to well aft of that.

As for the gas tank, it is to be the 38 gallon unit and full the gas alone will be 240 lbs. Add in the tank and sending unit and it'll probably be 275 lbs.

But, I don't have the bumper designed as an air tank. Instead I plan to put a true air tank under the bed on the passenger's side.

As for ripping an air line, my plan was to get the springs to carry the normal load and I'd just use the air bags for when I'm carrying a heavy load like when I'm towing.

Anyway, good idea to wait for the on the rear springs until I get the other bits in place.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Good point about the rear springs. I don't know how much the rear bumper will weigh, but it'll be substantial. Plus it'll have the spare moved back from right over the rear axle to well aft of that.

As for the gas tank, it is to be the 38 gallon unit and full the gas alone will be 240 lbs. Add in the tank and sending unit and it'll probably be 275 lbs.

But, I don't have the bumper designed as an air tank. Instead I plan to put a true air tank under the bed on the passenger's side.

As for ripping an air line, my plan was to get the springs to carry the normal load and I'd just use the air bags for when I'm carrying a heavy load like when I'm towing.

Anyway, good idea to wait for the on the rear springs until I get the other bits in place.

Sorry I thought you were planning to make a tank.

Maybe that came from one of the suggestions in the bumper/spare discussion. ?

I honestly didn't expect you to underspring the truck and rely on bladders, but wanted you to consider what else was going on back there before pulling leaves, switching blocks, etc.. and then realizing you needed the sway bar and more spring.

 

 

[Gary Lewis]

Sorry I thought you were planning to make a tank.

Maybe that came from one of the suggestions in the bumper/spare discussion. ?

I honestly didn't expect you to underspring the truck and rely on bladders, but wanted you to consider what else was going on back there before pulling leaves, switching blocks, etc.. and then realizing you needed the sway bar and more spring.

 

Yes, I originally had planned on using the bumper as an air tank. But those plans changed and now the plan is to use a true air tank.

Anyway, glad you said something on the rear. Who knows how it is going to look when it starts coming together.

Oh, and with the weight of the rear bumper, spare, high-lift jack, and gas behind the axle there's less for the front springs to carry.

[ArdWrknTrk]

and with the weight of the rear bumper, spare, high-lift jack, and gas behind the axle there's less for the front springs to carry.

This is true traversing flat and level ground but going over bumps/rocks and landing is going to subject the front springs to normal weights and the winch bumper, extra battery and whatever else (like the compressor)

[Gary Lewis]

and with the weight of the rear bumper, spare, high-lift jack, and gas behind the axle there's less for the front springs to carry.

This is true traversing flat and level ground but going over bumps/rocks and landing is going to subject the front springs to normal weights and the winch bumper, extra battery and whatever else (like the compressor)

Very true. But, as long as there's travel in the springs for that to happen then it shouldn't be a problem.

I'm anxious to see how much room there is between the spring and the bump stop when this goes together. Anyone have a guess?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Very true. But, as long as there's travel in the springs for that to happen then it shouldn't be a problem.

I'm anxious to see how much room there is between the spring and the bump stop when this goes together. Anyone have a guess?

I don't think I've ever seen U-code springs installed unless they were in an Excursion.

,

No idea what kind of clearance you will have in a Bullnose with the Sky RSK.

** but 2" more than a stock F-350 (4+" more that you have now) sounds like plenty to me

[Gary Lewis]

Very true. But, as long as there's travel in the springs for that to happen then it shouldn't be a problem.

I'm anxious to see how much room there is between the spring and the bump stop when this goes together. Anyone have a guess?

Ok, next questions. Steve/FoxFord33 checked out the rotors and discovered that they are already at or below the minimum thickness. So I need new rotors. But I've also come to the conclusion that while in there I might as well replace the calipers and pads.

So I've been doing some looking and there are a myriad of different brands, including some kits with rotors, calipers, and pads. In addition, there are "blank" rotors, drilled rotors, slotted rotors, and drilled & slotted rotors. I've done some reading about those different kinds, but what opinions do y'all have? And, do you have a recommended brand?

Also, there's the question of which u-joints. I plan to go with Spicer's non-greasable SPL u-joints, and the ones for the axles are the SPL55-RX. But, Spicer has come out with a new blue u-joint called the SPL55-1480XC. Amazon has the SPL55-RX at $44.25, but Bronco Graveyard has the SPL55-1480XC at $45 + shipping. Anyone know about this new u-joint? I'm wanting an extremely good one in places that are hard to get to, like the axles.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Ok, next questions. Steve/FoxFord33 checked out the rotors and discovered that they are already at or below the minimum thickness. So I need new rotors. But I've also come to the conclusion that while in there I might as well replace the calipers and pads.

So I've been doing some looking and there are a myriad of different brands, including some kits with rotors, calipers, and pads. In addition, there are "blank" rotors, drilled rotors, slotted rotors, and drilled & slotted rotors. I've done some reading about those different kinds, but what opinions do y'all have? And, do you have a recommended brand?

Also, there's the question of which u-joints. I plan to go with Spicer's non-greasable SPL u-joints, and the ones for the axles are the SPL55-RX. But, Spicer has come out with a new blue u-joint called the SPL55-1480XC. Amazon has the SPL55-RX at $44.25, but Bronco Graveyard has the SPL55-1480XC at $45 + shipping. Anyone know about this new u-joint? I'm wanting an extremely good one in places that are hard to get to, like the axles.

My opinion is that while drilled or slotted rotors allow water and mud to be wiped off with older organic/asbestos pads they don't do too much with modern ceramic or metallic pads.

**If you're evolving a lot of gas from the pads and you're not racing or have lost your gearbox on a mile long downhill, you have the wrong compound or friction material.

And all the holes 'added surface area to dissipate heat' also reduces thermal mass that could be used to absorb some heat, while providing pockets for corrosion to form.

***add link that compares real world v/s track***

Plus they wear pads faster.

IDK about preferred brands but I stay away from Wagner because of past QC issues. (Just like Autolite plugs and MrGasket parts)

Motorcraft is always good. Raybestos seems ok as well.

As far as performance brands EBC and Brembo are good.

Akebono make good friction material too.

So that's my 2c

I don't know anything about Dana/Spicer's newer lines of U-joints.

Hopefully they are sticking to their old quality standards.