Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

As I recall I was scrambling to strip that truck of what all was wanted before it went to the shredder.

I still don't see why you couldn't just modify whatever crossmember and brace you DO have.

It's certainly not a maintenance item or looking to get replaced once functional and in place.

I might be able to cut this one and weld something in to reinforce it. Or I may decide to spend my time doing other things and spend money instead and get the "right" one.

But I think the big question is how much interference there will be and, therefore, how much cutting will be required. So, I think the plan today will be to put the BW1345 in place and hold the double cardan shaft up there and find out.

My thinking is that right now is almost the worst possible interference. The truck is on the lift with almost the max suspension drop. The previous test shows that the shocks will let the front axle go down another 2" or so, but I think that would only happen in a situation where the axle is dropping rapidly, like in a jump. Otherwise the springs should stop the travel where it is. Right, guys?

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

I might be able to cut this one and weld something in to reinforce it. Or I may decide to spend my time doing other things and spend money instead and get the "right" one.

But I think the big question is how much interference there will be and, therefore, how much cutting will be required. So, I think the plan today will be to put the BW1345 in place and hold the double cardan shaft up there and find out.

My thinking is that right now is almost the worst possible interference. The truck is on the lift with almost the max suspension drop. The previous test shows that the shocks will let the front axle go down another 2" or so, but I think that would only happen in a situation where the axle is dropping rapidly, like in a jump. Otherwise the springs should stop the travel where it is. Right, guys?

First off, in the dynamic you envision I think the truck is moving away from the axle, not the other way around.

And shocks are dampers.

They don't "absorb shocks" they damp motion by restricting the rate of motion with fluid passages and turning that energy into heat.

Just replicate what you see there.

There is really no need to overthink this, and/or reinvent the wheel.

[Gary Lewis]

First off, in the dynamic you envision I think the truck is moving away from the axle, not the other way around.

And shocks are dampers.

They don't "absorb shocks" they damp motion by restricting the rate of motion with fluid passages and turning that energy into heat.

Just replicate what you see there.

There is really no need to overthink this, and/or reinvent the wheel.

You are right, the truck is moving away from the axle. And the shocks will slow the rise, but will also limit it should they reach their extents.

Anyway, was just wanting to make sure I'm not missing something - again.

[ArdWrknTrk]

First off, in the dynamic you envision I think the truck is moving away from the axle, not the other way around.

And shocks are dampers.

They don't "absorb shocks" they damp motion by restricting the rate of motion with fluid passages and turning that energy into heat.

Just replicate what you see there.

There is really no need to overthink this, and/or reinvent the wheel.

If someone were to have, say, a spare cross member... 🤔

I can easily see that center section added to the left, and then the brace being bent down to meet it.

But I guess I work cheap and want progress now, not waiting on someone else to either be truthful and follow through, or misrepresent themselves.

[Gary Lewis]

If someone were to have, say, a spare cross member... 🤔

I can easily see that center section added to the left, and then the brace being bent down to meet it.

But I guess I work cheap and want progress now, not waiting on someone else to either be truthful and follow through, or misrepresent themselves.

Good point. Having several spare crossmembers of at least two different styles, I might have the parts w/which to do that. And, if Ford kept the same cross-section they might fit together nicely. But, this is the same Ford that changed the spacing on the transmission mount after decades of the wider spacing working well, so....

Headed out to run some errands in a bit, and hope to play with the new scanner when I get back, but also plan to put the t-case in place and find out how much interference there is. And then, with spare crossmembers already laying on the floor it'll be easy to see what I can make of them.

[Nothing Special]

.... My thinking is that right now is almost the worst possible interference. The truck is on the lift with almost the max suspension drop. The previous test shows that the shocks will let the front axle go down another 2" or so, but I think that would only happen in a situation where the axle is dropping rapidly, like in a jump. Otherwise the springs should stop the travel where it is. Right, guys?

Right, but...

There's enough unsprung weight = inertia in a Dana 60 that I wouldn't count on the springs limiting the travel there. There will be some dynamic effects even in much less violent maneuvers than a jump. Will the axle regularly make all the way to the shocks limit? Hopefully not (if so you might want to consider limit straps to protect your shocks and shock mounts). But if the driveshaft is just barely clearing the cross member as it hangs now I'd be concerned that it wouldn't always clear.

 

[Gary Lewis]

.... My thinking is that right now is almost the worst possible interference. The truck is on the lift with almost the max suspension drop. The previous test shows that the shocks will let the front axle go down another 2" or so, but I think that would only happen in a situation where the axle is dropping rapidly, like in a jump. Otherwise the springs should stop the travel where it is. Right, guys?

Right, but...

There's enough unsprung weight = inertia in a Dana 60 that I wouldn't count on the springs limiting the travel there. There will be some dynamic effects even in much less violent maneuvers than a jump. Will the axle regularly make all the way to the shocks limit? Hopefully not (if so you might want to consider limit straps to protect your shocks and shock mounts). But if the driveshaft is just barely clearing the cross member as it hangs now I'd be concerned that it wouldn't always clear.

Bob - You are right that the D60 is HEAVY (I've carried the "light" end four times now) and it'll continue to move. Or, maybe more correctly, isn't going to move until the shocks get to the end of their travel. So I can't just get enough clearance for where it sits. It needs more.

I put the t-case in place, which is all the lift this old man wants to attempt, and then put the double-cardan shaft in place. And, it is official that it hits. Pics below, but it looks to me like it is about 1" too high.

I'm going to put the tranny jack back under and remove the crossmember & gussets. I have another crossmember that has a ~2" drop that I'll try and see if it works. Will post after a bit of testing....

[1986F150Six]

Bob - You are right that the D60 is HEAVY (I've carried the "light" end four times now) and it'll continue to move. Or, maybe more correctly, isn't going to move until the shocks get to the end of their travel. So I can't just get enough clearance for where it sits. It needs more.

I put the t-case in place, which is all the lift this old man wants to attempt, and then put the double-cardan shaft in place. And, it is official that it hits. Pics below, but it looks to me like it is about 1" too high.

I'm going to put the tranny jack back under and remove the crossmember & gussets. I have another crossmember that has a ~2" drop that I'll try and see if it works. Will post after a bit of testing....

Engineering at its finest. You will figure it out, Gary!

[Gary Lewis]

Engineering at its finest. You will figure it out, Gary!

Thanks, David. I may have it figured out. I installed the crossmember, shown below, that has the ~2" drop and I think it'll work. But want y'all's input on two questions:

1: The clearance - is it adequate?

2: The gussets - can I use the ones that are in w/o drilling new holes?

The clearance measures just over 1/2" with the suspension drooped as far as it wants to go, like on the lift. But the shocks will let it go another 2" if it wants to. However, the math says that 1/2" of movement there would allow over 3 1/2" of travel at the wheels since the pinch point is 6 1/2" from the pivot and the axle is 48" from the pivot. I think that's adequate. Youse guys?

As for the gussets, the ones that go with that crossmember will bolt up with it ~1" back, meaning using the new holes, which is where it needs to be. But the front edge of each gusset is ~1/4" below the frame before tightening the bolts up. However, it will go up to the frame before reaching the torque limit of 85 ft-lb of the 10.9 12x1.75 fasteners. I think that's a better way to go than to drill two new holes on each side, which reduces the strength of the frame. Y'all?

Here's the right gusset's gap before tightening it up to the frame:

Here's a shot of everything in:

And here are two shots of the clearance. Why two? Because the one on the left is the least clearance (11/32") and the one on the right is the most (11/16"). That's because the double-cardan joint is smaller than the output yoke of the BW1345 and I was only able to get one screw in to hold the shaft to the yoke. That puts the joint off center. So I measured the most and least clearance and averaged it to get 17/64". , meaning just over 1/2". (Truth in posting. )

[Nothing Special]

....

1: The clearance - is it adequate?

2: The gussets - can I use the ones that are in w/o drilling new holes?

....

Both seem good to me