Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

Do you mean the sound deadening mat? That's the stuff that they say 25% coverage will suffice, although more is better. But shouldn't the insulation have complete coverage?

Having said that, I ordered two 36 sq ft packages of each, so I should have plenty of even the sound deadening mat to cover most of it. But I want to do inside of the doors, so that will both take more as well as take plenty of time.

I had it backwards, the mat is what I'm thinking of. I didn't use any type of insulation on my Ranger.

I disagree with them when they say more is better, solely based on my personal assumption that the initial 25% takes care of the vibration, and anything else is just gonna start covering areas that aren't prone to vibration or heat. On my 2003 Ranger I have the entire floor covered, the back wall doubled up, the entire roof, and as much of the outer door sheet metal as I could cover. If I had to estimate, over 60% of the interior sheet metal in my truck is covered, and I feel it's way too much. If I could do it again, I would do maybe 40% at most in that truck. On my 2002 Ranger and the F350 I only plan to do around 25-30%. I can barely hear emergency vehicles in the 2003 Ranger, hence why I think more isn't necessarily better.

Here's my driver's door for reference:

 

Ahhh! You are differentiating between how well it works and too much of a good thing. IOW, while 100% coverage provides the best sound deadening, you think that is too much sound deadening as you can barely hear emergency vehicles. Right?

Let's go back to how it works - by reducing vibration. There are basically two ways to reduce vibration - stiffen the panel or raise its mass. It is difficult to stiffen a panel that is already there, so the easy way to reduce vibration of a panel is by raising its mass.

But a panel is inherently stiff at joints and bends. So there's really very little advantage to raising the mass of a panel at its edges where it joins another panel - like where the floor meets the sill. And a panel vibrates the most at its center, so placing the mass in the center of a panel or a portion of a panel is the most effective approach.

Someplace I once saw a chart that showed the effectiveness of where to place the mass. In the center of the panel was by far the highest and as you moved towards the edges it went down exponentially to zero at the edge. I think that's where they come up with the rule of thumb to cover 25% of the panel, and put it in the center.

[salans7]

Ahhh! You are differentiating between how well it works and too much of a good thing. IOW, while 100% coverage provides the best sound deadening, you think that is too much sound deadening as you can barely hear emergency vehicles. Right?

Let's go back to how it works - by reducing vibration. There are basically two ways to reduce vibration - stiffen the panel or raise its mass. It is difficult to stiffen a panel that is already there, so the easy way to reduce vibration of a panel is by raising its mass.

But a panel is inherently stiff at joints and bends. So there's really very little advantage to raising the mass of a panel at its edges where it joins another panel - like where the floor meets the sill. And a panel vibrates the most at its center, so placing the mass in the center of a panel or a portion of a panel is the most effective approach.

Someplace I once saw a chart that showed the effectiveness of where to place the mass. In the center of the panel was by far the highest and as you moved towards the edges it went down exponentially to zero at the edge. I think that's where they come up with the rule of thumb to cover 25% of the panel, and put it in the center.

Exactly. There's not enough gain to make it worth covering the entire panel. What I did in the 2003 Ranger is excessive unless you are running a full audio system. My white Ranger has (2) amplified 12" subwoofers in a ported box like below, hence the excessive amount of sound deadening.

 

[grumpin]

Exactly. There's not enough gain to make it worth covering the entire panel. What I did in the 2003 Ranger is excessive unless you are running a full audio system. My white Ranger has (2) amplified 12" subwoofers in a ported box like below, hence the excessive amount of sound deadening.

http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n72581/temporary_zps529e9abf.jpg

I bet that country music sounds good coming out of there!

 

[kramttocs]

I bet that country music sounds good coming out of there!

And absolutely nothing to do with not being able to hear sirens

[ArdWrknTrk]

Ahhh! You are differentiating between how well it works and too much of a good thing. IOW, while 100% coverage provides the best sound deadening, you think that is too much sound deadening as you can barely hear emergency vehicles. Right?

Let's go back to how it works - by reducing vibration. There are basically two ways to reduce vibration - stiffen the panel or raise its mass. It is difficult to stiffen a panel that is already there, so the easy way to reduce vibration of a panel is by raising its mass.

But a panel is inherently stiff at joints and bends. So there's really very little advantage to raising the mass of a panel at its edges where it joins another panel - like where the floor meets the sill. And a panel vibrates the most at its center, so placing the mass in the center of a panel or a portion of a panel is the most effective approach.

Someplace I once saw a chart that showed the effectiveness of where to place the mass. In the center of the panel was by far the highest and as you moved towards the edges it went down exponentially to zero at the edge. I think that's where they come up with the rule of thumb to cover 25% of the panel, and put it in the center.

Have a look at the tiny pieces of damping the manufacturers put in a new van.

They look like a stamp centered on a letter, or pasties or something...

This is what the factory decided was adequate to keep the sound down in a new vehicle.

So obviously it doesn't take too much.

[Gary Lewis]

Have a look at the tiny pieces of damping the manufacturers put in a new van.

They look like a stamp centered on a letter, or pasties or something...

This is what the factory decided was adequate to keep the sound down in a new vehicle.

So obviously it doesn't take too much.

Scott - You might have something there with what is preventing him from hearing emergency vehicles.

Jim - You are right. Most manufactures use a very small bit of damping material right in the center of each panel. And none of them do anything as extreme as what Shaun did. It isn't cost effective and adds weight to the vehicle.

But that's not to say that what Shaun did doesn't work. I'm sure it works very well. It just isn't cost effective for manufacturers to do that. In fact, the latest trend is to noise canceling technology where they introduce the exact opposite sound into the speakers, just like is done in noise-canceling headphones. But can you imagine the problems that will occur when "audiophiles" change out the speakers?

As for Big Blue, I'll be doing it the American way - if X is good then 2X is twice as good. Having ordered 72 sq ft of sound deadener and the same amount of insulation, I'll have plenty to work with. But I think the priorities will be the floor, the door outer panels, the roof, and the back wall.

The insulation came in last evening, and the sound deadener is to come in today. So if I get the holes in the floor sealed this morning then I hope to get the floor and the mount covers painted this afternoon. That way I can install the mount covers and the transmission cover, with seam sealer, tomorrow and get started installing the sound deadener.

[Sac79]

Scott - You might have something there with what is preventing him from hearing emergency vehicles.

Jim - You are right. Most manufactures use a very small bit of damping material right in the center of each panel. And none of them do anything as extreme as what Shaun did. It isn't cost effective and adds weight to the vehicle.

But that's not to say that what Shaun did doesn't work. I'm sure it works very well. It just isn't cost effective for manufacturers to do that. In fact, the latest trend is to noise canceling technology where they introduce the exact opposite sound into the speakers, just like is done in noise-canceling headphones. But can you imagine the problems that will occur when "audiophiles" change out the speakers?

As for Big Blue, I'll be doing it the American way - if X is good then 2X is twice as good. Having ordered 72 sq ft of sound deadener and the same amount of insulation, I'll have plenty to work with. But I think the priorities will be the floor, the door outer panels, the roof, and the back wall.

The insulation came in last evening, and the sound deadener is to come in today. So if I get the holes in the floor sealed this morning then I hope to get the floor and the mount covers painted this afternoon. That way I can install the mount covers and the transmission cover, with seam sealer, tomorrow and get started installing the sound deadener.

Found it!

I bought this newer tank from a yard in Charleston, but when it came to reassembly my old tank was easier to clean... The fill plug is yours in exchange for about 3" of your left over door seal, assuming you have extra. Yes, I cut mine too short, at least I assume I did(and that it wasn't sent too short - it's been 4 years) since everyone else claims to have received more than enough. But I don't have any spare pieces to show for it...

[Gary Lewis]

Scott - You might have something there with what is preventing him from hearing emergency vehicles.

Jim - You are right. Most manufactures use a very small bit of damping material right in the center of each panel. And none of them do anything as extreme as what Shaun did. It isn't cost effective and adds weight to the vehicle.

But that's not to say that what Shaun did doesn't work. I'm sure it works very well. It just isn't cost effective for manufacturers to do that. In fact, the latest trend is to noise canceling technology where they introduce the exact opposite sound into the speakers, just like is done in noise-canceling headphones. But can you imagine the problems that will occur when "audiophiles" change out the speakers?

As for Big Blue, I'll be doing it the American way - if X is good then 2X is twice as good. Having ordered 72 sq ft of sound deadener and the same amount of insulation, I'll have plenty to work with. But I think the priorities will be the floor, the door outer panels, the roof, and the back wall.

The insulation came in last evening, and the sound deadener is to come in today. So if I get the holes in the floor sealed this morning then I hope to get the floor and the mount covers painted this afternoon. That way I can install the mount covers and the transmission cover, with seam sealer, tomorrow and get started installing the sound deadener.

Today was a big day. I'll record the stuff that happened up top in text, and then show the pics.

First, I got the sound deadening material in. Boy, are those boxes heavy! And, I got the replacement FDM for the front tank. Plus, I got the Amsoil ATF from the t-case. So I can really make some progress.

And, I got the transmission cover cleaned up so it'll be ready to install tomorrow. Yes, Shaun, that one.

Next, the brazing went pretty well. I got all 5 of the rusted holes and the 3 screw holes brazed shut. And, I got two coats of POR-15 on the rusty parts of the cab floor, including the brazed spots on the underside. In fact, while I was under there I realized that the floor pan had some surface rust starting in a few places so I POR'd them as well as the spots I brazed.

And as I had more POR in the paint cup I painted the supports for the step bars as well as a large part of the frame in the driver's side. But, as I was closing the can up just now I realized that the lid is bent to the point it isn't going to seal well, so I need to put the remainder in a jar. And I might as well use some of it to paint a bit more of the frame while I'm at it tomorrow.

Ok, here are some shots of the brazing of the floor on the passenger's side as well as the front threshold screw hole:

And here's a shot of it after two coats of POR-15, although it was still wet so it is shiny. Also note that the door weatherstripping has been removed. It was in the way to put a lot of POR in that channel to ensure that it is well sealed. So when this goes back together I'll install the new weatherstripping that I got from Vernon.

Here's the under side of the threshold screw holes and you can see the rust I was talking about, so all of that now has two coats of POR-15, as do the spots where the paint was burned from brazing the rust holes:

And, for grins, here's the driver's side, which didn't have much rust on the floor. However, both cab mounting bolt caps were significantly rusted, and they, too, have two coats of POR-15 on them.

So, tomorrow it'll be time to lay down some sound deadening material!

 

[Gary Lewis]

Found it!

I bought this newer tank from a yard in Charleston, but when it came to reassembly my old tank was easier to clean... The fill plug is yours in exchange for about 3" of your left over door seal, assuming you have extra. Yes, I cut mine too short, at least I assume I did(and that it wasn't sent too short - it's been 4 years) since everyone else claims to have received more than enough. But I don't have any spare pieces to show for it...

Rob - You are on! I'm not sure when I'll get to that point, but as you'll see in my recent post, I'm going back with new weatherstripping when the time comes.

[salans7]

Exactly. There's not enough gain to make it worth covering the entire panel. What I did in the 2003 Ranger is excessive unless you are running a full audio system. My white Ranger has (2) amplified 12" subwoofers in a ported box like below, hence the excessive amount of sound deadening.

http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n72581/temporary_zps529e9abf.jpg

I bet that country music sounds good coming out of there!

The floor repairs look great Gary!

I bet that country music sounds good coming out of there!

George Strait songs have a little more bass than I care to hear. It's not good bass response either.

My system is tuned mainly for rock music, as is my box. Def Leppard and other 80's hair bands sound great in the truck. Feels like I'm front stage sometimes.