Gary Lewis Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 No, these are the bolts and washers that came with the headers: Well, it was a day. Got the passenger-side header bolts snugged up and the driver-side header installed and the bolts snugged up. But that in and of itself wasn't as easily done as said. Many of those bolts are so close to the exhaust tube that my Craftsman 3/8" 12-point wrench, shown on the left, wouldn't go on. So I modified a spare a little bit to get clearance, and it took all of that grinding to get the needed clearance. Then I tried to put the tranny in. No go. In this pic you can see that the tranny is touching the header at the starter bump, and the pilot stud is just visible through the top hole, but not yet lined up. So, I did some measuring. I know this isn't very accurate, but the engine plate pic on the right shows roughly 1 9/16" to the edge, and the transmission pic on the right shows essentially the same measurement. So it looks to me like there will be the same clearance between the tranny and the header as there is to the engine plate - if I can get the tranny there. Having said that, it wouldn't hurt to take a bit off the tranny with the flap wheel to make sure there's room. So I think I'll do that tomorrow as well as loosen the bolts on that header and swing it as far away as I can, which is ~3/8". Other ideas? Suggestions? Help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 1/2" flange, 1/2" engagement???? Yes, probably 1/2" flange, but there's more than 1/2" of engagement. Don't know how much, but there sure seems to be a lot when you are doing it 1/16 turn at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 1/2" flange, 1/2" engagement???? Well, having thought about it, you are right. There can't be any more than 1/2". If the bolt is 1 1/4" and the flange is 1/2" that leaves 3/4". But that washer has to be 1/8" when compressed, and the gasket is probably about the same. So ~1/2" is probably the max it could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Well, it was a day. Got the passenger-side header bolts snugged up and the driver-side header installed and the bolts snugged up. But that in and of itself wasn't as easily done as said. Many of those bolts are so close to the exhaust tube that my Craftsman 3/8" 12-point wrench, shown on the left, wouldn't go on. So I modified a spare a little bit to get clearance, and it took all of that grinding to get the needed clearance. Then I tried to put the tranny in. No go. In this pic you can see that the tranny is touching the header at the starter bump, and the pilot stud is just visible through the top hole, but not yet lined up. So, I did some measuring. I know this isn't very accurate, but the engine plate pic on the right shows roughly 1 9/16" to the edge, and the transmission pic on the right shows essentially the same measurement. So it looks to me like there will be the same clearance between the tranny and the header as there is to the engine plate - if I can get the tranny there. Having said that, it wouldn't hurt to take a bit off the tranny with the flap wheel to make sure there's room. So I think I'll do that tomorrow as well as loosen the bolts on that header and swing it as far away as I can, which is ~3/8". Other ideas? Suggestions? Help! THIS sort of thing is exactly why I made my comment about L&L's ,,,, poor development. Maybe great in concept and execution, but it seems they've never actually tried to use own their product. Or listen to any feedback You paid REAL money for these things.... Put it in, take it out. Take out the gearbox and cut the frame, put it in, take it out. Smash in the pipe with a hammer just to get a freaking wrench on it. Put it in, take it out. Try and decide how much of your gearbox housing you can cut away to make it fit. I'm really glad it's not me. I would probably be going to jail after I drove down there and did what I would with that header. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 1/2" flange, 1/2" engagement???? Well, having thought about it, you are right. There can't be any more than 1/2". If the bolt is 1 1/4" and the flange is 1/2" that leaves 3/4". But that washer has to be 1/8" when compressed, and the gasket is probably about the same. So ~1/2" is probably the max it could be. I might suggest you see if you can source some Torx socket head bolts the correct length, then you can probably get more turn on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 I might suggest you see if you can source some Torx socket head bolts the correct length, then you can probably get more turn on them. I'm thinking the reason he needs an end wrench is that the tube curves over the fastener, and he can't get a straight shot at it. I would definitely have snapped a wrench ground that thin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Well, it was a day. Got the passenger-side header bolts snugged up and the driver-side header installed and the bolts snugged up. But that in and of itself wasn't as easily done as said. Many of those bolts are so close to the exhaust tube that my Craftsman 3/8" 12-point wrench, shown on the left, wouldn't go on. So I modified a spare a little bit to get clearance, and it took all of that grinding to get the needed clearance. Then I tried to put the tranny in. No go. In this pic you can see that the tranny is touching the header at the starter bump, and the pilot stud is just visible through the top hole, but not yet lined up. So, I did some measuring. I know this isn't very accurate, but the engine plate pic on the right shows roughly 1 9/16" to the edge, and the transmission pic on the right shows essentially the same measurement. So it looks to me like there will be the same clearance between the tranny and the header as there is to the engine plate - if I can get the tranny there. Having said that, it wouldn't hurt to take a bit off the tranny with the flap wheel to make sure there's room. So I think I'll do that tomorrow as well as loosen the bolts on that header and swing it as far away as I can, which is ~3/8". Other ideas? Suggestions? Help! Gary needed to open up the hole in the flange, just to get the reduced head screw into place. How can he get a socket on/in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 I might suggest you see if you can source some Torx socket head bolts the correct length, then you can probably get more turn on them. Jim - Trust me, I'm frustrated. And if I didn't have a ton of money wrapped up in these things I'd be considering going with the manifolds. But I'm soooooo close. Like maybe 1/8" off. Bill - As Jim said, I don't have a straight shot at about 1/2 of the bolts. So I don't think I can use Torx fasteners. So, guys, why is 1/2" of engagement not enough? The rule of thumb I remember is 1 - 1.5 times the diameter of the bolt for max strength. They are 3/8" bolts, so 1/2" is right in the middle of that 1 - 1.5 range. Plus these are tight fits, not sloppy. And I can't really torque these things so I'm doubting there is any chance of it stripping out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 Gary needed to open up the hole in the flange, just to get the reduced head screw into place. How can he get a socket on/in it? Yep, I had to radius two holes, one on each header, just to get the bolts in. Further, several bolts had to be the whole way in or I couldn't get the wrench on them due to the turn of the tube. So I had to pull the flange back against the head, take a few turns on that one and then move onto another one that had similar problems. Part way through I'm thinking "How did I get in this mess?!?!?!?!?!" And now I have to lay that header back to get the tranny in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdWrknTrk Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Jim - Trust me, I'm frustrated. And if I didn't have a ton of money wrapped up in these things I'd be considering going with the manifolds. But I'm soooooo close. Like maybe 1/8" off. Bill - As Jim said, I don't have a straight shot at about 1/2 of the bolts. So I don't think I can use Torx fasteners. So, guys, why is 1/2" of engagement not enough? The rule of thumb I remember is 1 - 1.5 times the diameter of the bolt for max strength. They are 3/8" bolts, so 1/2" is right in the middle of that 1 - 1.5 range. Plus these are tight fits, not sloppy. And I can't really torque these things so I'm doubting there is any chance of it stripping out. Close counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.... What if Scotty had said 'oh, I've got this part. It'll be "close enough"'???? The fact that hundreds, if not thousands of people have had to go through this really frosts me. Why do I feel indignant? It's not my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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