Big Blue's Transformation

[kramttocs]

I (personally) wouldn't mess with the steering box.

I try to avoid piggybacking anything, and see drilling another hole to hold the ground lug as a completely valid solution.

I also think keeping it out in the open, where it's easy to see at a glance is a big plus.

.... but I'm a bit dim witted and obviously lazy about maintenance!

Not doubling up on the steering box bolt is probably smart Jim. I'll wait and see what Gary evaluates and goes with.

[Gary Lewis]

Not doubling up on the steering box bolt is probably smart Jim. I'll wait and see what Gary evaluates and goes with.

Well, Gary's evaluation is at the bottom of this post and is really a questions.

First, Scotty just called and said my dizzy, carb adaptor, plugs, wires, etc will ship out Monday.

Second, the morning was spent repairing the neighbor's chemical sprayer for the yard. It had a flimsy sheetmetal bracket with holes in the front, into which the hitch bolted and it had rusted and then pulled out. I happened to have a piece of angle laying on the bench from the coolant reservoir bracket work, and that was perfect as it was many times stronger and gave him more adjustment range, which he said he needed. With a bit of press work I got it back in shape and then welded on the angle. A few holes, and it was better than new.

Then turned to the ignition module spacer. The idea of making 3/4" diameter pieces 1 1/4" long using a hole saw on a 1 1/4" thick block of aluminum didn't pan out. So I went back to the stainless. And with a lot of patience I finally got the next two drilled and tapped 1/4-20 on both ends.

Then I decided to install a new module on the bottom since the old one has a flaky retard circuit. Here's everything installed with plenty of aluminum-based anti-seize on everything, inc the interfaces between the aluminum modules and the stainless spacers:

And now for the question. In these pics the to-be #2 ground is snaked up through and onto the auxiliary battery's ground. The other end is laying roughly where I'm thinking of drilling and tapping the frame.

In the pic on the left you can see the spot roughly 1/2 way between the two rivets. The hole would go through both the top of the frame as well as the frame liner, which is welded to the frame. And there's an opening below that spot where I can get the serrated nut in to provide more surface area to the connection.

Sitting here looking at the pic on the left, I could angle the wire down the fender apron to the front, along with the other wires running there which you can see, and come to the same spot via a more protected and less conspicuous route.

Anyway, thoughts about that location for the ground?

[85lebaront2]

Well, Gary's evaluation is at the bottom of this post and is really a questions.

First, Scotty just called and said my dizzy, carb adaptor, plugs, wires, etc will ship out Monday.

Second, the morning was spent repairing the neighbor's chemical sprayer for the yard. It had a flimsy sheetmetal bracket with holes in the front, into which the hitch bolted and it had rusted and then pulled out. I happened to have a piece of angle laying on the bench from the coolant reservoir bracket work, and that was perfect as it was many times stronger and gave him more adjustment range, which he said he needed. With a bit of press work I got it back in shape and then welded on the angle. A few holes, and it was better than new.

Then turned to the ignition module spacer. The idea of making 3/4" diameter pieces 1 1/4" long using a hole saw on a 1 1/4" thick block of aluminum didn't pan out. So I went back to the stainless. And with a lot of patience I finally got the next two drilled and tapped 1/4-20 on both ends.

Then I decided to install a new module on the bottom since the old one has a flaky retard circuit. Here's everything installed with plenty of aluminum-based anti-seize on everything, inc the interfaces between the aluminum modules and the stainless spacers:

And now for the question. In these pics the to-be #2 ground is snaked up through and onto the auxiliary battery's ground. The other end is laying roughly where I'm thinking of drilling and tapping the frame.

In the pic on the left you can see the spot roughly 1/2 way between the two rivets. The hole would go through both the top of the frame as well as the frame liner, which is welded to the frame. And there's an opening below that spot where I can get the serrated nut in to provide more surface area to the connection.

Sitting here looking at the pic on the left, I could angle the wire down the fender apron to the front, along with the other wires running there which you can see, and come to the same spot via a more protected and less conspicuous route.

Anyway, thoughts about that location for the ground?

Gary, re: ground for second battery, my question is why? Main load if it is engaged for cranking the engine will be to the engine. The later trucks do not rely on a bolted to the frame ground, a simple ground from the negative to the inner fender is what they use, and the headlight grounds are right above the headlights on the radiator support. Charging the aux. battery same thing, ground path is to the engine not the frame. On Darth, when I updated the wiring to 1996 style, I did keep the heavy right side negative cable to frame and block, but only the frame to block now. With the nice 1995 set Jim sent me the battery negative cable goes to the lower starter bolt/stud. Battery negative cable has a GM style ground pigtail to the inner side of the right front fender. I do still have the intake manifold to wiper mount ground.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, re: ground for second battery, my question is why? Main load if it is engaged for cranking the engine will be to the engine. The later trucks do not rely on a bolted to the frame ground, a simple ground from the negative to the inner fender is what they use, and the headlight grounds are right above the headlights on the radiator support. Charging the aux. battery same thing, ground path is to the engine not the frame. On Darth, when I updated the wiring to 1996 style, I did keep the heavy right side negative cable to frame and block, but only the frame to block now. With the nice 1995 set Jim sent me the battery negative cable goes to the lower starter bolt/stud. Battery negative cable has a GM style ground pigtail to the inner side of the right front fender. I do still have the intake manifold to wiper mount ground.

Bill - I have these cables:

1. Positive:
   1. Main to PDB: new #2
   2. PDB to starter: new #2
   3. PDB to battery isolator: 1995 #4 with dual fuse links
   4. Battery isolator to aux battery: new #4
2. Negative:
   1. Main to engine: new #2
   2. Engine to frame on passenger's side: new #2
   3. Main to passenger's fender: new #4
   4. Aux to driver's fender: new #4
   5. Passenger's fender to radiator support: new #10
   6. Driver's fender to radiator support: new #10

 

So with all those new cables I don't want to change the strategy. But, I have the ability to parallel batteries and if I do that and then hit Start the aux battery's return will be:

 

• Block to the main battery via the #2

• Main battery to the passenger's fender via the #4

• Passenger's fender to the radiator support via the #10

• Radiator support to the driver's fender via the #10

• Driver's fender to the aux battery via the #4

 

In other words, I'll melt the #10's bonding the radiator support to the fenders. But, all I need to do is to put a ground from the aux battery to the frame and the route will be:

 

• Block to frame on passenger's side

• Across the engine crossmember to the frame on the driver's side

• Frame to aux battery via the to-be #2 ground

 

No fried #10's and the auxiliary battery can contribute pretty well to the starting.

 

And all I'll have left to complete my grounding strategy are #10 grounds from the two fenders to the cab and then install the braided ground from the engine to the firewall.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Well, Gary's evaluation is at the bottom of this post and is really a questions.

First, Scotty just called and said my dizzy, carb adaptor, plugs, wires, etc will ship out Monday.

Second, the morning was spent repairing the neighbor's chemical sprayer for the yard. It had a flimsy sheetmetal bracket with holes in the front, into which the hitch bolted and it had rusted and then pulled out. I happened to have a piece of angle laying on the bench from the coolant reservoir bracket work, and that was perfect as it was many times stronger and gave him more adjustment range, which he said he needed. With a bit of press work I got it back in shape and then welded on the angle. A few holes, and it was better than new.

Then turned to the ignition module spacer. The idea of making 3/4" diameter pieces 1 1/4" long using a hole saw on a 1 1/4" thick block of aluminum didn't pan out. So I went back to the stainless. And with a lot of patience I finally got the next two drilled and tapped 1/4-20 on both ends.

Then I decided to install a new module on the bottom since the old one has a flaky retard circuit. Here's everything installed with plenty of aluminum-based anti-seize on everything, inc the interfaces between the aluminum modules and the stainless spacers:

And now for the question. In these pics the to-be #2 ground is snaked up through and onto the auxiliary battery's ground. The other end is laying roughly where I'm thinking of drilling and tapping the frame.

In the pic on the left you can see the spot roughly 1/2 way between the two rivets. The hole would go through both the top of the frame as well as the frame liner, which is welded to the frame. And there's an opening below that spot where I can get the serrated nut in to provide more surface area to the connection.

Sitting here looking at the pic on the left, I could angle the wire down the fender apron to the front, along with the other wires running there which you can see, and come to the same spot via a more protected and less conspicuous route.

Anyway, thoughts about that location for the ground?

Wait, you have a TP40 that doesn't retard properly?

So, right about where that brilliant glare is in the right hand pic?

Hopefully that isn't a foretelling of the arc when that bolt comes loose!

I like the idea of running the cable forward under the battery tray and back along the rail.

Not that I've ever had an issue, but it doesn't seem prudent to have anything out in the open, in line with the belts or fan blades.

[Gary Lewis]

Wait, you have a TP40 that doesn't retard properly?

So, right about where that brilliant glare is in the right hand pic?

Hopefully that isn't a foretelling of the arc when that bolt comes loose!

I like the idea of running the cable forward under the battery tray and back along the rail.

Not that I've ever had an issue, but it doesn't seem prudent to have anything out in the open, in line with the belts or fan blades.

Yes. In his post of Apr 10, 2020; 10:39am, Scott provided a link to my post back on FTE where I tested those two modules. You said "I think you should just use a timing light, then apply power to the 'retard' wire and see if the marks move back towards tdc."

I did and discovered that the module that was on BB when I got him didn't always retard the spark. Which is why I moved him to backup duty. But while I was working on this yesterday I to that module out and installed a new one in its place. And then wrote "Doesn't always retard" on it with a red Sharpie and put him back on the shelf.

As for the ground, I see what you are saying. I'll route the wire forward and install the ground. Thanks.

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yes. In his post of Apr 10, 2020; 10:39am, Scott provided a link to my post back on FTE where I tested those two modules. You said "I think you should just use a timing light, then apply power to the 'retard' wire and see if the marks move back towards tdc."

I did and discovered that the module that was on BB when I got him didn't always retard the spark. Which is why I moved him to backup duty. But while I was working on this yesterday I to that module out and installed a new one in its place. And then wrote "Doesn't always retard" on it with a red Sharpie and put him back on the shelf.

As for the ground, I see what you are saying. I'll route the wire forward and install the ground. Thanks.

I remember saying that.

But I thought you'd notice the timing mark more than the idle speed under no load.

The TVS does the same, in reverse, when the engine starts to overheat.

It sends direct manifold vacuum to the DSII distributor, rather than routing it through the Vacuum Restrictor.

This pulls in a little more advance, and ups the idle speed.

If stuck in traffic, the fan turns faster and the pump circulates more coolant.

I hadn't realized you installed a new module on top, so I was wondering why you'd bothered to put it back.

 

[Gary Lewis]

I remember saying that.

But I thought you'd notice the timing mark more than the idle speed under no load.

The TVS does the same, in reverse, when the engine starts to overheat.

It sends direct manifold vacuum to the DSII distributor, rather than routing it through the Vacuum Restrictor.

This pulls in a little more advance, and ups the idle speed.

If stuck in traffic, the fan turns faster and the pump circulates more coolant.

I hadn't realized you installed a new module on top, so I was wondering why you'd bothered to put it back.

The timing is the key, although the RPM is a factor.

I'd thought about this, but decided to do some math. All the box can do is delay a fixed period of time from when the dizzy says to spark. And in my test the timing got retarded 4 degrees. So:

RPM = 600

Rev/sec = 10

Degrees/Sec = 3600

4 degrees = 0.001 second

Looks to me like the box delays the spark about 1 millisecond.

[ArdWrknTrk]

The timing is the key, although the RPM is a factor.

I'd thought about this, but decided to do some math. All the box can do is delay a fixed period of time from when the dizzy says to spark. And in my test the timing got retarded 4 degrees. So:

RPM = 600

Rev/sec = 10

Degrees/Sec = 3600

4 degrees = 0.001 second

Looks to me like the box delays the spark about 1 millisecond.

About four degrees is what I have noted.

Glad to see your math works out.

 

[Gary Lewis]

About four degrees is what I have noted.

Glad to see your math works out.

Didn't get much done on the truck today, but I did get to Zoom with my grandkids.

Anyway, I did drill and tap the frame and frame liner. Man, that is a pain to do 'cause you can't get to it very easily. And, because it is so thick. There must be 3/8" of metal in there.

And, I crimped a new connector on the #2 cable and installed it. I'm quite confident that the aux battery is now well and truly grounded to the frame - especially given the serrated nut on the bottom of that bolt. And, with the anti-seize it won't be rusting any time soon.

And yes, I used a G8 3/8-16 bolt. My reasoning was that if I'm going to drill a hole in the top flange of the frame I want it to contribute to the strength. So it is torqued down tightly and the serrated nut is tight as well, thereby clamping the liner a bit tighter to the frame.