Big Blue's Transformation

[85lebaront2]

Alternator belt with serpentine front dress? (This is an EFI after all)

But the PTO is intriguing...

I'm sure you could run a massive compressor off of that.

It could be as complex as Gary chose to make it.

Electronic engagement, clutched for free running when up to pressure, water cooled even!

Jim, the poly groove (not serpentine) system on the 1988-97 460 in it's factory configuration includes a smoke grinder about where the V-belt engines mount the alternator.

[Gary Lewis]

Jim, the poly groove (not serpentine) system on the 1988-97 460 in it's factory configuration includes a smoke grinder about where the V-belt engines mount the alternator.

Bill is right, and where the smoke grinder sits in that pic is where the York would go. I checked out the mounting when Huck's engine, looking much like that one, was on the stand before I took it apart. Making a bracket doesn't seem like it would be difficult at all. I'd just need the polygroove pulley/clutch, which I've just seen for $135, and the oil accumulator/feedback system.

As for an alternator to create 60 cycle AC, no thanks. I'm not even sure this ECU supports the PTO feature, and I'm even less sure there's a parameter in it to allow adjusting the RPM.

Jim - The PTO feature is an input to the ECU that tells it the PTO is going to be used so it should up the idle speed. I hope to use that to spin up the alternator when running the winch - or maybe a massive inverter?

[grumpin]

Bill is right, and where the smoke grinder sits in that pic is where the York would go. I checked out the mounting when Huck's engine, looking much like that one, was on the stand before I took it apart. Making a bracket doesn't seem like it would be difficult at all. I'd just need the polygroove pulley/clutch, which I've just seen for $135, and the oil accumulator/feedback system.

As for an alternator to create 60 cycle AC, no thanks. I'm not even sure this ECU supports the PTO feature, and I'm even less sure there's a parameter in it to allow adjusting the RPM.

Jim - The PTO feature is an input to the ECU that tells it the PTO is going to be used so it should up the idle speed. I hope to use that to spin up the alternator when running the winch - or maybe a massive inverter?

That big inverter could come in handy, run a coffee maker, espresso machine, maybe a George Foreman grill! Charge your devices, endless possibilities...

[Nothing Special]

That big inverter could come in handy, run a coffee maker, espresso machine, maybe a George Foreman grill! Charge your devices, endless possibilities...

I'm not saying these aren't all cool ideas. But with this conversation starting with the idea that a $342 onboard air system might be a good option because it's cheaper and easier than a York compressor or a Smittybilt compressor that would still need the rest of the system, methinks this is sort of going the expensive / complicated route now.

If you want to be able to run an electric grill, or a table saw in your camp site, sure, go for it. Personally I'd go back to options 1 or 2.

[Gary Lewis]

I'm not saying these aren't all cool ideas. But with this conversation starting with the idea that a $342 onboard air system might be a good option because it's cheaper and easier than a York compressor or a Smittybilt compressor that would still need the rest of the system, methinks this is sort of going the expensive / complicated route now.

If you want to be able to run an electric grill, or a table saw in your camp site, sure, go for it. Personally I'd go back to options 1 or 2.

Bob - I'm with you. From everything I've read the locked-rotor amperage (LRA) on an induction motor is quite high and it will take quite the inverter to power a 110v compressor. Having said that, Janey and I are headed into T-Town to see Midway tomorrow and I plan to make at least two stops:

• Harbor Freight to see if they know the LRA for their compressors. Or, if said compressors have a name plate with the info shown in the table here at Power Tips. If so I should be able to calculate the LRA. And, while there I'll talk to them about their inverters to see if any of them are capable of powering their compressors.

• 4wd Parts to talk to them about the various onboard air systems they carry as well as those they've been around. Like maybe a York? And how about that Smittybilt compressor?

Meanwhile, I'm reading everything I can find. For instance, this from Jedi.com on a York Air Compressor For Onboard Air. Note that it has links to other pages on that site about the tank, oil mods for the York, etc.

And, along the way I saw a reference to C U Off Road, and they make kits for installing a York on lots of different vehicles, but nothing is said about Fords. So I sent them an email and we'll see what they say. But, they have pulley/clutches and other things that may come in really handy.

So, I'm not saying no to #4, meaning a large inverter and a 110v compressor, but I doubt that's going to work.

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - I'm with you. From everything I've read the locked-rotor amperage (LRA) on an induction motor is quite high and it will take quite the inverter to power a 110v compressor. Having said that, Janey and I are headed into T-Town to see Midway tomorrow and I plan to make at least two stops:

• Harbor Freight to see if they know the LRA for their compressors. Or, if said compressors have a name plate with the info shown in the table here at Power Tips. If so I should be able to calculate the LRA. And, while there I'll talk to them about their inverters to see if any of them are capable of powering their compressors.

• 4wd Parts to talk to them about the various onboard air systems they carry as well as those they've been around. Like maybe a York? And how about that Smittybilt compressor?

Meanwhile, I'm reading everything I can find. For instance, this from Jedi.com on a York Air Compressor For Onboard Air. Note that it has links to other pages on that site about the tank, oil mods for the York, etc.

And, along the way I saw a reference to C U Off Road, and they make kits for installing a York on lots of different vehicles, but nothing is said about Fords. So I sent them an email and we'll see what they say. But, they have pulley/clutches and other things that may come in really handy.

So, I'm not saying no to #4, meaning a large inverter and a 110v compressor, but I doubt that's going to work.

Going back and looking at the discussions about tank sizes, Grumpin took these measurements:

Measurements at HFT!

62441: 30” L 10 1/2” Depth and Width

McGraw 64294 and Central Pneumatic 68740: 23 1/2" x 10"

97080: 14 1/2" x 8"

Twin tank 62763: 15 3/4" x 6 1/2"

Portable tank 65595: 22" x 11"

HTH!

And I found that:

In fact, it looks like the max height is 8" to keep it concealed as that would put it even with the bottom of the fender. And max width is 16", but most tanks are round so that distance may be irrelevant. If the tank is no more than 8" in diameter the length can be up to 37" long. But if it is 16" wide then it can only be 27" long.

So with that info tomorrow I'll measure tanks at both HF awa 4wd Parts, and maybe even Northern Tool.

[grumpin]

I'm not saying these aren't all cool ideas. But with this conversation starting with the idea that a $342 onboard air system might be a good option because it's cheaper and easier than a York compressor or a Smittybilt compressor that would still need the rest of the system, methinks this is sort of going the expensive / complicated route now.

If you want to be able to run an electric grill, or a table saw in your camp site, sure, go for it. Personally I'd go back to options 1 or 2.

That was mostly tongue in cheek!

 

[Gary Lewis]

Going back and looking at the discussions about tank sizes, Grumpin took these measurements:

Measurements at HFT!

62441: 30” L 10 1/2” Depth and Width

McGraw 64294 and Central Pneumatic 68740: 23 1/2" x 10"

97080: 14 1/2" x 8"

Twin tank 62763: 15 3/4" x 6 1/2"

Portable tank 65595: 22" x 11"

HTH!

And I found that:

In fact, it looks like the max height is 8" to keep it concealed as that would put it even with the bottom of the fender. And max width is 16", but most tanks are round so that distance may be irrelevant. If the tank is no more than 8" in diameter the length can be up to 37" long. But if it is 16" wide then it can only be 27" long.

So with that info tomorrow I'll measure tanks at both HF awa 4wd Parts, and maybe even Northern Tool.

I think I just ruled Harbor Freight portable air tanks out. Here's what the owner's manual says:

Regularly drain water condensation from of Tank, which can lead to internal corrosion and damage to the tank. To drain, hold Tank upside down and remove the Bypass Valve Spring (2).

Apparently there's no drain on the bottom of the tank.

But they do show drains on the bottom of the tanks on the compressors.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I think I just ruled Harbor Freight portable air tanks out. Here's what the owner's manual says:

Regularly drain water condensation from of Tank, which can lead to internal corrosion and damage to the tank. To drain, hold Tank upside down and remove the Bypass Valve Spring (2).

Apparently there's no drain on the bottom of the tank.

But they do show drains on the bottom of the tanks on the compressors.

Bill, Gary refers to it as a serpentine belt, I'm just following along.

Gary, I'm pretty sure this inverter is rated at 3k continuous, not surge, but ill have to check.

It came out of a fire patrol rescue vehicle.

Isn't this why AC motors come with a capacitor?

I mean, there's still some inrush, but it's nothing insane like multiple times rated amperage.

I understand you meant a throttle up mode of the ECU, but I was talking about an actual PTO driven compressor.

Or, you could get a PTO driven hydraulic pump and use that for winching -or- the compressor!

We went through all those HF tanks before.

You rejected the California Air dual hotdog tanks in aluminum as not long enough.

But at full rated SCFM @ 90 psi, I don't see the issue.

[Gary Lewis]

Bill, Gary refers to it as a serpentine belt, I'm just following along.Gary, I'm pretty sure this inverter is rated at 3k continuous, not surge, but ill have to check.It came out of a fire patrol rescue vehicle.Isn't this why AC motors come with a capacitor?I mean, there's still some inrush, but it's nothing insane like multiple times rated amperage.I understand you meant a throttle up mode of the ECU, but I was talking about an actual PTO driven compressor.Or, you could get a PTO driven hydraulic pump and use that for winching -or- the compressor!We went through all those HF tanks before.You rejected the California Air dual hotdog tanks in aluminum as not long enough.But at full rated SCFM @ 90 psi, I don't see the issue.

Grumpin - I kinda thought it was a joke.

 

Jim - I don't remember the details about the tank discussions. But with what I'm finding, below, I'm leaning at this point in time to a turnkey system.

 

All - I put together the following spreadsheet to try to get my head around the multitude of Viair offerings as well as other options. But so far all I've gotten on it is the Viair. However, it looks to me like topping up four 33" tires from 15 to 30 PSI might take all of 15 minutes at worst case. And while I know that a York would do it a lot faster, I'm questioning the need to do it a lot faster given the time it'll take up front to create the York-based system. Is it worth it?

 

Note that all of the numbers on there are from Viair's website, although I did interpolate from 35" tire times to get to 33" tire times since the bottom two systems don't list 33" times. And the three different pressure points I chose (0, 30, & 90) were to allow comparison to the York compressor as I so far have only found one rating on it.

 

Thoughts?