Big Blue's Transformation

[grumpin]

Oh, and generally you are not supposed to put grease on manual hubs. Over-lubing them seems to generally cause more problems than under-lubing. So if you do clean and re-lube them, keep the lube on the light side.

I agree. Some folks don’t like the Auto Hubs, I’ve been told “they’re not going to work when it’s cold.”

If you put too much grease in there they will be troublesome. The FSM for my Bronco says to soak them in ATF and let them drip.

I did that and have had no problems.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Maybe something like the Teflon dry lube from PB Blaster would remove stiction without turning dust into the clay like lapping compound that causes these hubs to seize?

Bob - I think that if I want to go with the earlier lockouts I'll have to change everything, meaning the hubs. But there's something I read that said the later style hub, with the rounded hex lock nut, requires a different lockout. Hmmm....

Jim - Dry Teflon might be the way to go. I'm catching an hour here and an hour there while the grandtwins are here, but I might get one of the lockouts cleaned and lubed in a day or two to see if it'll rotate easily. I think I have some Teflon lube for bicycle chains that flows in and then dries, leaving the Teflon, so I'll try it.

All - Speaking of catching time when I can, I've been thinking about the switches on the dash. The OX locker comes with a lighted switch, and I'll also want switches for the air compressor, battery parallel, fast idle for winching, etc. And in order to have a place to put them I asked David if he could find me an F600 radio bezel since those came with the switch positions. However, I've never seen one with more then two positions, so would need to graft others in. But, he came up with what I think is "the" answer - Dennis Carpenter has a repop F600 bezel, as shown below, for $60.

Assuming that it is very similar to the Bullnose bezels there's ~8 1/2" side-to-side and 2 1/4" up/down for the switches. And, it has a continuous slot of maybe 1" into which I can put a readout from the Arduino to give info on battery voltage, air pressure, driving lights, camping lights, etc.

So that got me to thinking about what switches to use, and I asked the guy at OX what theirs is. He said it is a Carling. Below the OX switch is shown on the left and what I think is the right Carling is on the right, and it is a V1D1B60B-ARC00-000 Contura II. But they have many different lenses for them, including one that shows a light.

The dimensions are 1.950" vertical and .940" wide, so I think that six will fit easily. In fact, seven should fit and eight might fit.

So once I get the D60 back from Boom's Garage I'll have one of those switches and can play with how/if that switch would fit on a Bullnose bezel. But, if someone has an F600 bezel and can measure things for me that would really help.

Thoughts?

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Oh, and generally you are not supposed to put grease on manual hubs. Over-lubing them seems to generally cause more problems than under-lubing. So if you do clean and re-lube them, keep the lube on the light side.

I agree. Some folks don’t like the Auto Hubs, I’ve been told “they’re not going to work when it’s cold.”

If you put too much grease in there they will be troublesome. The FSM for my Bronco says to soak them in ATF and let them drip.

I did that and have had no problems.

Hmmm

I didn't realize it was a viscosity issue that caused the hub lockouts to seize up.

Mine always had a lot of crud packed between dial and ring.

I don't think switching to a fluid over grease would change that.

If it happens because of cold perhaps '00' corn picker grease like I use in the snowblower would work?

Gary,

I use that TDL on the rack and worm of my tablesaws. (height and tilt adjustment)

You can't imagine a more dusty environment than up inside the cabinet of one of those.

 

[grumpin]

Hmmm

I didn't realize it was a viscosity issue that caused the hub lockouts to seize up.

Mine always had a lot of crud packed between dial and ring.

I don't think switching to a fluid over grease would change that.

If it happens because of cold perhaps '00' corn picker grease like I use in the snowblower would work?

I can’t speak on seizing up. But as Nothing Special said light grease. The FSM also mentions an Automatic Hub Lock Grease for the brake band and drag sleeve. E1TZ-19590-A. I would imagine lightly coating everything with that should be good.

 

[Nothing Special]

Bob - I think that if I want to go with the earlier lockouts I'll have to change everything, meaning the hubs. But there's something I read that said the later style hub, with the rounded hex lock nut, requires a different lockout. Hmmm....

Automatic hubs require different spindle nuts than manual hubs (or at least, than most manual hubs). The auto hubs need to have a "ground," somehing that doesn't turn with either the axle or the wheel hub. The spindle nut is the closest thing to the auto hub that isn't moving, so they used that. But the spindle nuts for auto hubs gets in the way of (at least most) manual hubs. So if you have the auto hub spindle nuts you need to replace them with standard spindle nuts to put (at least most) manual hubs on.

Warn sells a "conversion kit" to do this, but it's just normal Spicer spindle nuts on a piece of cardboard that has a big red "W" on it. You can go to your favorite auto parts store and get the same things cheaper.

And I keep saying "at least most" manual hubs. As far as I know, all manual hubs work with the standard spindle nuts and none work with the special ones required for auto hubs. Which would mean if you took any manual hub off you could put any other manual hub on. However, I wouldn't put it past Ford to get a special manual hub that can be used with the automatic hub spindle nuts so they don't have to stock two different types of spindle nuts. If that's what they did you would need the normal spindle nuts to put any other manual hubs on it.

Still, Ford doesn't generally seem like the kind of company to use a slightly more expensive part when they could use a cheaper one, even if that would mean stocking fewer parts. And I also don't think they make their own hubs, so that's another reason I think their manual hubs would require the same spindle nuts as all the others. So while I can't say for sure, my bet is that any manual hubs will work on that axle with the spindle nuts you have.

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - I think that if I want to go with the earlier lockouts I'll have to change everything, meaning the hubs. But there's something I read that said the later style hub, with the rounded hex lock nut, requires a different lockout. Hmmm....

Automatic hubs require different spindle nuts than manual hubs (or at least, than most manual hubs). The auto hubs need to have a "ground," somehing that doesn't turn with either the axle or the wheel hub. The spindle nut is the closest thing to the auto hub that isn't moving, so they used that. But the spindle nuts for auto hubs gets in the way of (at least most) manual hubs. So if you have the auto hub spindle nuts you need to replace them with standard spindle nuts to put (at least most) manual hubs on.

Warn sells a "conversion kit" to do this, but it's just normal Spicer spindle nuts on a piece of cardboard that has a big red "W" on it. You can go to your favorite auto parts store and get the same things cheaper.

And I keep saying "at least most" manual hubs. As far as I know, all manual hubs work with the standard spindle nuts and none work with the special ones required for auto hubs. Which would mean if you took any manual hub off you could put any other manual hub on. However, I wouldn't put it past Ford to get a special manual hub that can be used with the automatic hub spindle nuts so they don't have to stock two different types of spindle nuts. If that's what they did you would need the normal spindle nuts to put any other manual hubs on it.

Still, Ford doesn't generally seem like the kind of company to use a slightly more expensive part when they could use a cheaper one, even if that would mean stocking fewer parts. And I also don't think they make their own hubs, so that's another reason I think their manual hubs would require the same spindle nuts as all the others. So while I can't say for sure, my bet is that any manual hubs will work on that axle with the spindle nuts you have.

First, I think I've confused things. I have no idea if the hubs themselves work. What I'm having trouble turning are the knobs in the caps. They are not terribly dirty, and one's been lubed with silicone spray, and yet both of them are just about all I want to turn when they are off the axle in my hands. I'll clean them, hopefully soon, and then lube them to see if they can be made to turn reasonably easily.

Ok, and now for the puzzler. I got the '95 FSM and have looked at the illustrations therein, and mine doesn't match any of them. I've put the illustrations below, but mine matches the one from Torque King 4x4 in the lower right. And in it I have parts 13 & 14. So I'm quite confused.

Bob - You said:

However, I wouldn't put it past Ford to get a special manual hub that can be used with the automatic hub spindle nuts so they don't have to stock two different types of spindle nuts. If that's what they did you would need the normal spindle nuts to put any other manual hubs on it.

I think you are right - I think these manual caps & hubs work with the rounded-hex nut, but I won't know that for sure for some time. However, the hubs themselves have six screw positions, so in theory I could go for the earlier caps that use six screws. And, if the hubs work properly with the rounded-hex nut and the existing caps then why wouldn't they work with the rounded-hex nuts and six-screw caps? All the cap does is push the hub in, right?

[salans7]

First, I think I've confused things. I have no idea if the hubs themselves work. What I'm having trouble turning are the knobs in the caps. They are not terribly dirty, and one's been lubed with silicone spray, and yet both of them are just about all I want to turn when they are off the axle in my hands. I'll clean them, hopefully soon, and then lube them to see if they can be made to turn reasonably easily.

Ok, and now for the puzzler. I got the '95 FSM and have looked at the illustrations therein, and mine doesn't match any of them. I've put the illustrations below, but mine matches the one from Torque King 4x4 in the lower right. And in it I have parts 13 & 14. So I'm quite confused.

Bob - You said:

However, I wouldn't put it past Ford to get a special manual hub that can be used with the automatic hub spindle nuts so they don't have to stock two different types of spindle nuts. If that's what they did you would need the normal spindle nuts to put any other manual hubs on it.

I think you are right - I think these manual caps & hubs work with the rounded-hex nut, but I won't know that for sure for some time. However, the hubs themselves have six screw positions, so in theory I could go for the earlier caps that use six screws. And, if the hubs work properly with the rounded-hex nut and the existing caps then why wouldn't they work with the rounded-hex nuts and six-screw caps? All the cap does is push the hub in, right?

I have the six screw lockouts on mine, so maybe tomorrow if it isn't pouring I'll pull them off and see what I have inside the hub since it's obviously been converted at some point to Warn standards.

[Gary Lewis]

I have the six screw lockouts on mine, so maybe tomorrow if it isn't pouring I'll pull them off and see what I have inside the hub since it's obviously been converted at some point to Warn standards.

Thanks! Your axle is a '90?

[Steve83]

Did Warn make the factory manual hubs?

AFAIK, Warn has always made all factory hub locks for all 3 US makes (actually for Dana, which sells axles to all 3 US makers).

Over-lubing them seems to generally cause more problems than under-lubing.

The guts of the locks need airspace so the mechanisms can move. Filling them with grease effectively hydraulics (hydrolocks) them; manual OR auto.

...Auto Hubs, I’ve been told “they’re not going to work when it’s cold.”

Mine work fine in all weather.

I think that if I want to go with the earlier lockouts I'll have to change everything, meaning the hubs. But there's something I read that said the later style hub, with the rounded hex lock nut, requires a different lockout.

I'm more-familiar with 1/2-ton axles, but I don't think Dana designed a different hub based on what type of lock goes in.

...Teflon, so I'll try it.

I wouldn't use it inside the lock. Maybe outside the cap, under the knob.

...thinking about what switches to use...

...seven should fit and eight might fit.

...

Thoughts?

I think it can be very confusing have 7~8 identical switches in a row. Especially if you need to hit THE RIGHT one quickly; either in the dark, or when you can't take your eyes off where you're going. That's why I used several very-different switches on my dash - it's impossible to confuse them (even though I still haven't labelled them).

https://supermotors.net/getfile/988712/thumbnail/38clusterr.jpg

Mine always had a lot of crud packed between dial and ring.

That space is designed to be dry, so rain can keep it clean. I'd disassemble the plastic knob from the metal cap, clean & polish both, and see how it works without lube.

And I also don't think they make their own hubs...

Dana makes the hubs; Warn makes the locks.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Did Warn make the factory manual hubs?

AFAIK, Warn has always made all factory hub locks for all 3 US makes (actually for Dana, which sells axles to all 3 US makers).

Over-lubing them seems to generally cause more problems than under-lubing.

The guts of the locks need airspace so the mechanisms can move. Filling them with grease effectively hydraulics (hydrolocks) them; manual OR auto.

...Auto Hubs, I’ve been told “they’re not going to work when it’s cold.”

Mine work fine in all weather.

I think that if I want to go with the earlier lockouts I'll have to change everything, meaning the hubs. But there's something I read that said the later style hub, with the rounded hex lock nut, requires a different lockout.

I'm more-familiar with 1/2-ton axles, but I don't think Dana designed a different hub based on what type of lock goes in.

...Teflon, so I'll try it.

I wouldn't use it inside the lock. Maybe outside the cap, under the knob.

...thinking about what switches to use...

...seven should fit and eight might fit.

...

Thoughts?

I think it can be very confusing have 7~8 identical switches in a row. Especially if you need to hit THE RIGHT one quickly; either in the dark, or when you can't take your eyes off where you're going. That's why I used several very-different switches on my dash - it's impossible to confuse them (even though I still haven't labelled them).

https://supermotors.net/getfile/988712/thumbnail/38clusterr.jpg

Mine always had a lot of crud packed between dial and ring.

That space is designed to be dry, so rain can keep it clean. I'd disassemble the plastic knob from the metal cap, clean & polish both, and see how it works without lube.

And I also don't think they make their own hubs...

Dana makes the hubs; Warn makes the locks.

I have Warn premiums now, and while they are stiff they don't seize up and they don't lock themselves on the passenger side like the plastic ones were doing.

It got to the point that I seriously considered someone was pranking me.