Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, I'll drive it a few times tomorrow. Maybe it'll dial itself in. But I won't tweak it any more for a while as my grandtwins arrive tomorrow night and will be with us for about 10 days, so there won't be much work done on the truck during that time.

Clint's response was "Write a factory tune and see if it works. Let's check to see if it is something you changed in the tune."

So I might write the AGANN/YER2 factory tune to it and see what happens. That's the CA-spec '96/97 tune for a 460 w/a manual tranny, and while I've made extensive mod's to it to turn off EGR, canister purge, misfire, etc, the base tune should work fine.

But with the g'twins coming in tonight I think I'll just post this as a bookmark so I can remember where I was in this whole process. I hope to take the kids out in the truck, one at a time, to putt putt around in a friend's field. And, my brother's coming down on Saturday and we'll want to take it out for a spin. So since it's running quite well save for the lean start-up problem, I think I may drive it a bit today to let it learn, and then worry about writing the YER2 tune in a couple of weeks.

[85lebaront2]

Clint's response was "Write a factory tune and see if it works. Let's check to see if it is something you changed in the tune."

So I might write the AGANN/YER2 factory tune to it and see what happens. That's the CA-spec '96/97 tune for a 460 w/a manual tranny, and while I've made extensive mod's to it to turn off EGR, canister purge, misfire, etc, the base tune should work fine.

But with the g'twins coming in tonight I think I'll just post this as a bookmark so I can remember where I was in this whole process. I hope to take the kids out in the truck, one at a time, to putt putt around in a friend's field. And, my brother's coming down on Saturday and we'll want to take it out for a spin. So since it's running quite well save for the lean start-up problem, I think I may drive it a bit today to let it learn, and then worry about writing the YER2 tune in a couple of weeks.

I will almost be willing to bet it will settle out like Darth did. I had the same issue, super lean during warm up to the point if I put the transmission in gear I could stall the engine. After a few days it settled on a slightly richer starting mixture.

[Gary Lewis]

I will almost be willing to bet it will settle out like Darth did. I had the same issue, super lean during warm up to the point if I put the transmission in gear I could stall the engine. After a few days it settled on a slightly richer starting mixture.

Bill - You win!

Here's today's first start of the day, which was from 72F. Notice that where the white vertical line is, which determines what readouts show on the left, the AFR was about 16:1 instead of 18 - 19: 1 like it was yesterday.

And I've put both desired and actual RPM on the same scale, which I've learned how to do. and save for a bit of difference at startup the actual tracks right with desired. And the fact that the computer is controlling the idle helps with driveability. You can ease out on the clutch at idle and then putt-putt along at 650 RPM with no problems and no bucking. In addition, the dashpot is working well as it holds the RPM up during a shift to about 1000, and that makes it about right to go into the next gear.

Overall, I think it is running very, very nicely.

[85lebaront2]

Bill - You win!

Here's today's first start of the day, which was from 72F. Notice that where the white vertical line is, which determines what readouts show on the left, the AFR was about 16:1 instead of 18 - 19: 1 like it was yesterday.

And I've put both desired and actual RPM on the same scale, which I've learned how to do. and save for a bit of difference at startup the actual tracks right with desired. And the fact that the computer is controlling the idle helps with driveability. You can ease out on the clutch at idle and then putt-putt along at 650 RPM with no problems and no bucking. In addition, the dashpot is working well as it holds the RPM up during a shift to about 1000, and that makes it about right to go into the next gear.

Overall, I think it is running very, very nicely.

Yes, the secret is to give the computer time to learn where it needs to be rather than trying to force it there.

Sort of like leading a horse to water, and letting it decide if it's thirsty.

Glad it's working out!

The other item, rpm at start, I would imagine the initial higher rpm even on a hot start has to do with emissions, more air = leaner mixture to clear the extra starting volume of fuel. Just like a lot of carbureted engines need a bit of throttle on a hot restart.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, the secret is to give the computer time to learn where it needs to be rather than trying to force it there.

Sort of like leading a horse to water, and letting it decide if it's thirsty.

Glad it's working out!

The other item, rpm at start, I would imagine the initial higher rpm even on a hot start has to do with emissions, more air = leaner mixture to clear the extra starting volume of fuel. Just like a lot of carbureted engines need a bit of throttle on a hot restart.

You are right, the computer does a good job of learning, so I don't agree with Ben's suggestion to leave "adaptive" turned off. I know he's run into problems at idle with it, but I suspect that was with big cams that confused the computer. However, my cam doesn't seem to bother it at all.

As for the high RPM at startup, I think you are right there as well. I suspect that the parameter is Idle Speed Startup Adder Based Off ECT. In the screenshot below mine is on the left, in green, and yours is on the right in blue.

Below is a blow-up the first 39 seconds of the startup. For the first 6 seconds the desired RPM is 976. Then it drops to 960 for another 7 seconds before it starts stepping down. I can live with this as it is far better than the 1400 it was previously going to. But I'll probably try to lower it a bit at some point.

[Gary Lewis]

You are right, the computer does a good job of learning, so I don't agree with Ben's suggestion to leave "adaptive" turned off. I know he's run into problems at idle with it, but I suspect that was with big cams that confused the computer. However, my cam doesn't seem to bother it at all.

As for the high RPM at startup, I think you are right there as well. I suspect that the parameter is Idle Speed Startup Adder Based Off ECT. In the screenshot below mine is on the left, in green, and yours is on the right in blue.

Below is a blow-up the first 39 seconds of the startup. For the first 6 seconds the desired RPM is 976. Then it drops to 960 for another 7 seconds before it starts stepping down. I can live with this as it is far better than the 1400 it was previously going to. But I'll probably try to lower it a bit at some point.

A little update. As some of you know, my grandtwins have been here for a week and I've had more important things to do than trucking. But today trucking and grandtwins coalesced in that I let both of them drive Big Blue.

We went to the church building, where we have the show, and putt putted around the parking lot. My first plan was to have them start in the grass in 1st gear/2Hi and then idle up onto the blacktop of the parking lot. But that didn't work as well as I'd hoped since it took a delicate release of the clutch when in the grass to keep from stalling the engine, which was idling dutifully at 650 RPM.

So we put it in 4Lo w/o the hubs locked in and started in 1st sometimes or 2nd other times on the pavement. In both cases you can just about side-step the clutch with no consequence. And the resulting speed doesn't register on the GPS, which kept reading 0.

But at 94F outside and with the A/C on Max and the fan on High I did see the coolant temp creep up. After my grandson drove and the temp had gotten to 220+ I took it for a spin and brought the temp down to about 200 easily. But after my granddaughter drove the temp made it to 228F and the A/C wasn't all that cool. However, the 1.5 mile drive home brought the temp down to 198F quite easily and also made the A/C work much better.

So an electric fan or fans might be a nice addition. They would keep things cool while in the mountains on Jeep trails where you aren't moving very fast. However, in that case you are also spinning the engine so the engine-driven fan would work, so maybe no change is needed?

[ArdWrknTrk]

A little update. As some of you know, my grandtwins have been here for a week and I've had more important things to do than trucking. But today trucking and grandtwins coalesced in that I let both of them drive Big Blue.

We went to the church building, where we have the show, and putt putted around the parking lot. My first plan was to have them start in the grass in 1st gear/2Hi and then idle up onto the blacktop of the parking lot. But that didn't work as well as I'd hoped since it took a delicate release of the clutch when in the grass to keep from stalling the engine, which was idling dutifully at 650 RPM.

So we put it in 4Lo w/o the hubs locked in and started in 1st sometimes or 2nd other times on the pavement. In both cases you can just about side-step the clutch with no consequence. And the resulting speed doesn't register on the GPS, which kept reading 0.

But at 94F outside and with the A/C on Max and the fan on High I did see the coolant temp creep up. After my grandson drove and the temp had gotten to 220+ I took it for a spin and brought the temp down to about 200 easily. But after my granddaughter drove the temp made it to 228F and the A/C wasn't all that cool. However, the 1.5 mile drive home brought the temp down to 198F quite easily and also made the A/C work much better.

So an electric fan or fans might be a nice addition. They would keep things cool while in the mountains on Jeep trails where you aren't moving very fast. However, in that case you are also spinning the engine so the engine-driven fan would work, so maybe no change is needed?

With the DSII system this was why the distributor was connected to the thermal vacuum switch in the water neck.

If the temp went too high the distributor would switch to full vacuum advance and run the idle up so the pump rotated faster as well as the fan.

Is there some reason you can't program (or calibrate) the EEC-V system to do the same?

[85lebaront2]

With the DSII system this was why the distributor was connected to the thermal vacuum switch in the water neck.

If the temp went too high the distributor would switch to full vacuum advance and run the idle up so the pump rotated faster as well as the fan.

Is there some reason you can't program (or calibrate) the EEC-V system to do the same?

Jim, Darth did, first shut off the AC compressor, then advanced the timing and possibly raised the idle. I was caught in Portsmouth VA trying to get back through the downtown tunnel in Aug with temps probably near 100° and RH in the 90s. I needed to make a left across 2 lanes without benefit of a signal and there was a steady stream coming the other way. The signal a block down from where I was turning was giving occasional openings, but there were probably 10 ahead of me.

I ended up when nothing was moving putting the transmission in N so I could raise the rpm a bit.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Jim, Darth did, first shut off the AC compressor, then advanced the timing and possibly raised the idle. I was caught in Portsmouth VA trying to get back through the downtown tunnel in Aug with temps probably near 100° and RH in the 90s. I needed to make a left across 2 lanes without benefit of a signal and there was a steady stream coming the other way. The signal a block down from where I was turning was giving occasional openings, but there were probably 10 ahead of me.

I ended up when nothing was moving putting the transmission in N so I could raise the rpm a bit.

I hadn't considered all the implications of raised engine speed with an automatic.

Or even what rpm the stock converter starts to engage.

Is BE granular enough to implement a strategy controlling IAC based on coolant temp? (sorry, I know nothing about it's capabilities)

[Gary Lewis]

I hadn't considered all the implications of raised engine speed with an automatic.

Or even what rpm the stock converter starts to engage.

Is BE granular enough to implement a strategy controlling IAC based on coolant temp? (sorry, I know nothing about it's capabilities)

BE is plenty granular enough for that. Below is the table for that, with my #'s on the left and Bill's on the right. And while it says it is an "air adder" I think it is actually RPM adder. So I need to make my 220F entry something like 150 to rev it up some, but not so much that it would be a huge surprise to the driver.

Also, there is the ability to raise the idle when the A/C comes on, or even kill the A/C when the ECT hits a certain temp - but in that case the ECU has to be controlling the A/C clutch, and in my case it is just monitoring it.