Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

Good description! They do have a number of things in common, like a love for reading. But Isla likes to be cool and Ian can't stand to be. From Day 1 you'd better get him wrapped up quickly when changing his diaper or there would be lots of noise.

And Isla's into sports and Ian is into music. It isn't that she doesn't like music or that he doesn't like sports, but each is more into one than the other.

So "womb mates" rather than "twins" makes a lot more sense.

Got the radiator installed, but did another mod at Scott's recommendation. There are two holes on the bottom flange of the radiator that are 19.5" apart c/c, and they apparently match up with an electric fan shroud that he has. So in the event I want to go to an electric fan he suggested that I put nutserts in the holes.

It took very little opening up of the holes to get an 8mm x 1.25 nutsert in, and I chose that size since Ford used a lot of those bolts on these trucks. In fact, here's a pic of the nutsert in with a Ford bolt in it:

And apparently this was "Nutsert Day" as when I was reinstalling the air cleaner box a screw stripped out of the bracket. So I added nutserts there as well:

But you might be asking why the air box was out. Well, in this engine compartment the knee bone is connected to the hip bone, and the hip bone is.... IOW, nothing comes out w/o something else coming out first. In this case the radiator can't come out w/o the cold air duct being removed first, but the cold air duct doesn't come out until the air box does, but the air box doesn't come out until the air box lid & MAF sensor comes out. And when going back in, the radiator goes in but can't be bolted to the radiator support until the cold air duct is in since there's a bump-out on the duct that has to go in front of the radiator.

Last, I have one coolant leak, and at the easiest spot to fix - where the upper radiator hose connects to the radiator. So tomorrow I'll see what the problem is and, hopefully, fix it.

[Gary Lewis]

Got the radiator installed, but did another mod at Scott's recommendation. There are two holes on the bottom flange of the radiator that are 19.5" apart c/c, and they apparently match up with an electric fan shroud that he has. So in the event I want to go to an electric fan he suggested that I put nutserts in the holes.

It took very little opening up of the holes to get an 8mm x 1.25 nutsert in, and I chose that size since Ford used a lot of those bolts on these trucks. In fact, here's a pic of the nutsert in with a Ford bolt in it:

And apparently this was "Nutsert Day" as when I was reinstalling the air cleaner box a screw stripped out of the bracket. So I added nutserts there as well:

But you might be asking why the air box was out. Well, in this engine compartment the knee bone is connected to the hip bone, and the hip bone is.... IOW, nothing comes out w/o something else coming out first. In this case the radiator can't come out w/o the cold air duct being removed first, but the cold air duct doesn't come out until the air box does, but the air box doesn't come out until the air box lid & MAF sensor comes out. And when going back in, the radiator goes in but can't be bolted to the radiator support until the cold air duct is in since there's a bump-out on the duct that has to go in front of the radiator.

Last, I have one coolant leak, and at the easiest spot to fix - where the upper radiator hose connects to the radiator. So tomorrow I'll see what the problem is and, hopefully, fix it.

Oh yes, I forgot - the A/C system is "dry". Not only is it low, there's no pressure at all. So I've called the people who last worked on it.

So this is going to curtail our trip we'd planned for Thursday as it is supposed to be in the 90's and that doesn't sound like fun w/o A/C.

[Gary Lewis]

Oh yes, I forgot - the A/C system is "dry". Not only is it low, there's no pressure at all. So I've called the people who last worked on it.

So this is going to curtail our trip we'd planned for Thursday as it is supposed to be in the 90's and that doesn't sound like fun w/o A/C.

Set up an appointment for Friday for Big Blue to go into the shop for A/C work.

And, I'm pretty sure I got the cooling system sorted. But it took a bit to get the upper radiator hose to stop leaking. In the pic below the hose clamp on the right is the kind that was on there, and when I looked closely at the hose I could see that there was a crease in it at the ends of the "shoe" that's at the top of the pic. The only thing I could figure is that is was leaking along that crease. It even leaked when I replaced the clamp with the one on the left.

So I cut 1" off the hose, which got rid of the crease, and it sealed up nicely using the clamp on the left.

I then took the truck for a spin to get it up to temp and then let it cool down so I could top the cooling system off. And I logged the engine coolant temp, as well as lots of other things. The pic below shows the ECT trace all by itself, and I found several things interesting from that.

For one, I didn't realize that the temperature "bounces" when the thermostat opens. Second, I expected that driving the truck would significantly speed up the warm-up, but the line looks pretty straight to me, before and after starting to drive. Last, it takes a very long time to warm a 460 up!

And that helps me understand the error of my ways in setting up the "Idle Air Adder for ECT" table. I had the RPM adder going to 0 at 180F, but since it takes so long to get there I think that needs to be dropped down a bit to maybe 160F - which is where the factory had it. However, it didn't reach that point until 5 minutes after being started, so maybe even that's too high?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Set up an appointment for Friday for Big Blue to go into the shop for A/C work.

And, I'm pretty sure I got the cooling system sorted. But it took a bit to get the upper radiator hose to stop leaking. In the pic below the hose clamp on the right is the kind that was on there, and when I looked closely at the hose I could see that there was a crease in it at the ends of the "shoe" that's at the top of the pic. The only thing I could figure is that is was leaking along that crease. It even leaked when I replaced the clamp with the one on the left.

So I cut 1" off the hose, which got rid of the crease, and it sealed up nicely using the clamp on the left.

I then took the truck for a spin to get it up to temp and then let it cool down so I could top the cooling system off. And I logged the engine coolant temp, as well as lots of other things. The pic below shows the ECT trace all by itself, and I found several things interesting from that.

For one, I didn't realize that the temperature "bounces" when the thermostat opens. Second, I expected that driving the truck would significantly speed up the warm-up, but the line looks pretty straight to me, before and after starting to drive. Last, it takes a very long time to warm a 460 up!

And that helps me understand the error of my ways in setting up the "Idle Air Adder for ECT" table. I had the RPM adder going to 0 at 180F, but since it takes so long to get there I think that needs to be dropped down a bit to maybe 160F - which is where the factory had it. However, it didn't reach that point until 5 minutes after being started, so maybe even that's too high?

Do you know what upper hose you're using, Gary?

It seems odd that it would lose its resilience so quickly. (These were new when you installed the engine, right?)

I have noticed some "reverberation" in the coolant temp with my Bricknose gauges when warming up.

You kind of expect that the cold slug of coolant from the radiator is going to change the thermostat opening until the whole system stabilizes.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Do you know what upper hose you're using, Gary?

It seems odd that it would lose its resilience so quickly. (These were new when you installed the engine, right?)

I have noticed some "reverberation" in the coolant temp with my Bricknose gauges when warming up.

You kind of expect that the cold slug of coolant from the radiator is going to change the thermostat opening until the whole system stabilizes.

Yes, it was new. And it is an F5TZ 8260-A Motorcraft, the one w/o the hump. Looks like I installed it in July of 2020, but who knows how old it really is.

As for the "reverberation" (good term) of the coolant temp, I did expect a bit of it. But I didn't expect it to go on for about 3 minutes. And I didn't expect that it would take over 12 minutes to get the whole system up to 180 degrees. I guess I assumed that the thermostat would close enough to bring the engine temp up to the rating on it, which is 180F. But it lingered at 178 until the trip was over, so who knows how long it would have taken.

As for seeing the changes on the gauges, you can on the Bricknose as they aren't thermal like the Bullnose. And I can on my aftermarket mechanical gauge. Which reminds me, I installed its bulb in the thermostat housing, so it is measuring the temp behind the 'stat. I'd often wondered how that would work, and I can now say that I like it. I can tell exactly when the 'stat opens and know that it is working.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yes, it was new. And it is an F5TZ 8260-A Motorcraft, the one w/o the hump. Looks like I installed it in July of 2020, but who knows how old it really is.

As for the "reverberation" (good term) of the coolant temp, I did expect a bit of it. But I didn't expect it to go on for about 3 minutes. And I didn't expect that it would take over 12 minutes to get the whole system up to 180 degrees. I guess I assumed that the thermostat would close enough to bring the engine temp up to the rating on it, which is 180F. But it lingered at 178 until the trip was over, so who knows how long it would have taken.

As for seeing the changes on the gauges, you can on the Bricknose as they aren't thermal like the Bullnose. And I can on my aftermarket mechanical gauge. Which reminds me, I installed its bulb in the thermostat housing, so it is measuring the temp behind the 'stat. I'd often wondered how that would work, and I can now say that I like it. I can tell exactly when the 'stat opens and know that it is working.

I'm not familiar with the EFI radiator hoses.

I assume by "hump" you mean it comes straight forward from the water neck, unlike my Gates 22655?

The cooling system bypasses through the heater core always. I don't know if the EFI intake passes directly into the water pump as well.

It's a big system, that all should be getting up to temp before the thermostat even starts opening.

But you have a bigger four row radiator. So more volume there.

I can understand why the 180° thermostat is holding at 178.

These things are not on/off, and should modulate flow depending on how hot the coolant is, coming from the intake.

It's doing its job and outside temps aren't too hot.

You're not stuck in traffic idling at 100°+.

[Gary Lewis]

I'm not familiar with the EFI radiator hoses.

I assume by "hump" you mean it comes straight forward from the water neck, unlike my Gates 22655?

The cooling system bypasses through the heater core always. I don't know if the EFI intake passes directly into the water pump as well.

It's a big system, that all should be getting up to temp before the thermostat even starts opening.

But you have a bigger four row radiator. So more volume there.

I can understand why the 180° thermostat is holding at 178.

These things are not on/off, and should modulate flow depending on how hot the coolant is, coming from the intake.

It's doing its job and outside temps aren't too hot.

You're not stuck in traffic idling at 100°+.

Yes, it is a big system. And thermostats are analog, not digital, so it makes sense that it would open enough to hold 178 instead of 180. It probably doesn't have to pass much to keep the system cool with that radiator.

As for going through the heater, yes it does - when I don't have the A/C in Max A/C as I have a shutoff valve that works then. So there's even more coolant to heat up.

On the upper hose, I don't know what one you have, but I'll guess it is the top one, left below. Mine is the one on the bottom. And in that pic, from July, 2022, I can see that mine is longer than yours, so taking an inch off won't be a problem.

[85lebaront2]

Yes, it is a big system. And thermostats are analog, not digital, so it makes sense that it would open enough to hold 178 instead of 180. It probably doesn't have to pass much to keep the system cool with that radiator.

As for going through the heater, yes it does - when I don't have the A/C in Max A/C as I have a shutoff valve that works then. So there's even more coolant to heat up.

On the upper hose, I don't know what one you have, but I'll guess it is the top one, left below. Mine is the one on the bottom. And in that pic, from July, 2022, I can see that mine is longer than yours, so taking an inch off won't be a problem.

That's the same hose I snagged at Pick-n-Pull for Darth. It is definitely shorter than the old dual air pump one.

[Gary Lewis]

That's the same hose I snagged at Pick-n-Pull for Darth. It is definitely shorter than the old dual air pump one.

Mine's an inch shorter than it used to be. But it no longer leaks. And, w/o any smoke grinders I don't like that thing sticking up in the breeze, so I certainly like that hose.

I did put some thought into why it was leaking. As said, there was a crease caused by the "shoe" on the clamp, and even when I put a different clamp on it the thing still dripped right at that crease.

But the clamps were almost to the radiator, well away from the raised ring at the end of the fitting. So when I shortened it to get rid of the crease I also put the clamp close to the ring so it is causing the hose to seal against the ring - in addition to the cylindrical part of the fitting. And I'm sure there wasn't any crease where the hose is hitting the ring.

Which raises a question - where is the hose clamp supposed to go? I've always put it close to the radiator, but as I think about it placing it closer to the ring seems to make more sense. Thoughts?

[1986F150Six]

Mine's an inch shorter than it used to be. But it no longer leaks. And, w/o any smoke grinders I don't like that thing sticking up in the breeze, so I certainly like that hose.

I did put some thought into why it was leaking. As said, there was a crease caused by the "shoe" on the clamp, and even when I put a different clamp on it the thing still dripped right at that crease.

But the clamps were almost to the radiator, well away from the raised ring at the end of the fitting. So when I shortened it to get rid of the crease I also put the clamp close to the ring so it is causing the hose to seal against the ring - in addition to the cylindrical part of the fitting. And I'm sure there wasn't any crease where the hose is hitting the ring.

Which raises a question - where is the hose clamp supposed to go? I've always put it close to the radiator, but as I think about it placing it closer to the ring seems to make more sense. Thoughts?

Closer to the ring, I believe.