Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

Jim, I don't know which computer he is using, I sent him one to help get started, and I think he has another one.

He is at least close to one of the three from Core Tuning. I never tried to integrate my wideband O2 sensor into the computer, I only used it for datalogging and as a glance at the reading occasionally item.

Bill - I'm running one that was originally for a 5.8L, but Adam put a 460 manual tranny tune in it. And I do have your spare awa another EEC-V that's from a 5.0L. But it has the E4OD hardware in it so I'm hoping to use it on Dad's truck.

When the dust settles on this I'll send your ECU and test harness back. But I'm hoping to learn a bit that might help you as well when you get Darth going again.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yes, Jim, so close I could TASTE it! But, Ben called and got me going.

As it turns out, the ECU I have uses a completely different input than the 0 - 5v I was trying to give it via the analog input. So it was never going to work. It is a "Pressure Feedback EGR" system and Ben said it won't work.

So he got the serial input working.

Then he poked around in the "tune" and asked "Who set this up for you?" I told him it was his co-worker Adam, and he said it is a 460 manual transmission tune, so that explains why it runs so well right out of the box. But then he looked at the timing tables and said it is leaving a lot on the table.

So then we discussed my coming down to put it on the dyno. He's into drag racing and has races the next several weekends and has other people lined up to tune in the interim. But I'm going to get it down there one way or another.

In the interim he wants me to put it into open loop and do some data logging and send him the file. And the easiest way to put it in open loop is to just pull the connectors to the factory O2 sensors. From that he'll suggest some changes and we can get it close. Then he can dial it in the last little bit on the dyno.

So I can do that awa poke around to dial in a few other things, but it is driveable right now w/o hurting it.

:nabble_crossed-fingers-20-pixel_orig:

[Machspeed]

Yes, Jim, so close I could TASTE it! But, Ben called and got me going.

As it turns out, the ECU I have uses a completely different input than the 0 - 5v I was trying to give it via the analog input. So it was never going to work. It is a "Pressure Feedback EGR" system and Ben said it won't work.

So he got the serial input working.

Then he poked around in the "tune" and asked "Who set this up for you?" I told him it was his co-worker Adam, and he said it is a 460 manual transmission tune, so that explains why it runs so well right out of the box. But then he looked at the timing tables and said it is leaving a lot on the table.

So then we discussed my coming down to put it on the dyno. He's into drag racing and has races the next several weekends and has other people lined up to tune in the interim. But I'm going to get it down there one way or another.

In the interim he wants me to put it into open loop and do some data logging and send him the file. And the easiest way to put it in open loop is to just pull the connectors to the factory O2 sensors. From that he'll suggest some changes and we can get it close. Then he can dial it in the last little bit on the dyno.

So I can do that awa poke around to dial in a few other things, but it is driveable right now w/o hurting it.

We'll Gary, it wasn't a total wasted day. You learned a few things before the sun went down. You're on your way and almost there.

[Gary Lewis]

We'll Gary, it wasn't a total wasted day. You learned a few things before the sun went down. You're on your way and almost there.

Yes, Jim, I have my that I can reproduce the serial connectivity today. But he showed me how to find the serial cable's com port in Device Manager and then use that in Binary Editor - which I should have known. And, he pointed out that I cannot have multiple com ports enabled in BE and get it to work - even if there's no comms on the other ports.

So I learned quite a bit just watching him poke around in my tune, remotely. And the fact that I'm a bit more familiar with BE than before means I realize what he's doing more often.

John - You are right, it wasn't a totally wasted day. But at one point it sure felt like it. The sheer vastness of the parameters in BE is mind boggling.

However, I am learning. For instance, when I started BB up cold last evening with Ben monitoring things the idle went up to 1500 like it has been doing and he went looking at the same parameters I'd noticed that are different between my tune and Bill's tune. So I'm pretty sure those are the ones to bring the idle down.

Given that, I think what I'm going to do today is to make a few minor changes - like those. Then pull the connections on the factory O2 sensors, pull the battery cables for a minute to reset the ECU, and then go for a drive in open loop and data log it. If that works I can send that file awa the tune file to Ben and see what he says to do.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, Jim, I have my that I can reproduce the serial connectivity today. But he showed me how to find the serial cable's com port in Device Manager and then use that in Binary Editor - which I should have known. And, he pointed out that I cannot have multiple com ports enabled in BE and get it to work - even if there's no comms on the other ports.

So I learned quite a bit just watching him poke around in my tune, remotely. And the fact that I'm a bit more familiar with BE than before means I realize what he's doing more often.

John - You are right, it wasn't a totally wasted day. But at one point it sure felt like it. The sheer vastness of the parameters in BE is mind boggling.

However, I am learning. For instance, when I started BB up cold last evening with Ben monitoring things the idle went up to 1500 like it has been doing and he went looking at the same parameters I'd noticed that are different between my tune and Bill's tune. So I'm pretty sure those are the ones to bring the idle down.

Given that, I think what I'm going to do today is to make a few minor changes - like those. Then pull the connections on the factory O2 sensors, pull the battery cables for a minute to reset the ECU, and then go for a drive in open loop and data log it. If that works I can send that file awa the tune file to Ben and see what he says to do.

Noon update: I wrote a new tune with a number of changes to the ECU. They included dropping the RPM adders for cold startup and changing the min RPM for misfire testing to 6000 like Bill’s tune has.

The startup RPM was much better, but I may have taken too much out. And so far no Ewissions light so maybe that fixed the misfire error.

After lunch and between storms I’m going to take it on a run with the factory O2 sensors unplugged and log the wide band, which does seem to be working. However, I’d say it is 90% as sometimes it doesn’t start and sometimes mid-log it stops. I think I’m on the limit of comms going through the USB hub with the OBD-II cable, serial for the wide band, and the BE dongle all plugged into it.

[Gary Lewis]

Noon update: I wrote a new tune with a number of changes to the ECU. They included dropping the RPM adders for cold startup and changing the min RPM for misfire testing to 6000 like Bill’s tune has.

The startup RPM was much better, but I may have taken too much out. And so far no Ewissions light so maybe that fixed the misfire error.

After lunch and between storms I’m going to take it on a run with the factory O2 sensors unplugged and log the wide band, which does seem to be working. However, I’d say it is 90% as sometimes it doesn’t start and sometimes mid-log it stops. I think I’m on the limit of comms going through the USB hub with the OBD-II cable, serial for the wide band, and the BE dongle all plugged into it.

End-Of-Day Update: I'm done for the day. I'm beyond frustrated and if I don't quit now I'll break something.

I took the truck on a spin and was data logging, inc wide-band AFR. But part way through the trip the wide-band part stopped logging, although the gauge itself was still working. Still, I figured it had recorded enough that I could ship it off to Ben. But, when I looked for it in the data logging folder it wasn't there. Or anywhere.

And then I remembered that I'd gotten odd messages at times for things that were plugged into the USB hub, including for the thumb drive and for the dongle that proves I have a license to run BE. On the thumb drive I got a message asking me what I wanted to do with the drive, as if it had just been plugged in. And on the dongle I got a message from BE saying I had 10 seconds to plug it back in. But they'd always been plugged in.

So I figured that I was trying to pump too much data through the hub and I moved to Janey's laptop with its two USB ports. But the serial/USB cable will not work on that computer. Usually Device Manager shows it having a problem, but if you play with it long enough you can eventually get Device Manager to recognize it. However, even then the Innovate software that comes with the wide-band gauge can't find it, and BE certainly can't. And that's true no matter which USB port you are plugged into, and with or without the USB hub.

Given that I tried another hub I have. No dice. So I may actually have more than one problem since the symptoms are all over the map. I'm going to reach out to Ben to see if he has a recommendation on serial cables as the one I have, albeit new, is low-buck from Amazon.

And then I got an email from Champion. The 4-row radiator isn't in stock and they don't know when or if it will be. I'm done for the day.

 

[salans7]

End-Of-Day Update: I'm done for the day. I'm beyond frustrated and if I don't quit now I'll break something.

I took the truck on a spin and was data logging, inc wide-band AFR. But part way through the trip the wide-band part stopped logging, although the gauge itself was still working. Still, I figured it had recorded enough that I could ship it off to Ben. But, when I looked for it in the data logging folder it wasn't there. Or anywhere.

And then I remembered that I'd gotten odd messages at times for things that were plugged into the USB hub, including for the thumb drive and for the dongle that proves I have a license to run BE. On the thumb drive I got a message asking me what I wanted to do with the drive, as if it had just been plugged in. And on the dongle I got a message from BE saying I had 10 seconds to plug it back in. But they'd always been plugged in.

So I figured that I was trying to pump too much data through the hub and I moved to Janey's laptop with its two USB ports. But the serial/USB cable will not work on that computer. Usually Device Manager shows it having a problem, but if you play with it long enough you can eventually get Device Manager to recognize it. However, even then the Innovate software that comes with the wide-band gauge can't find it, and BE certainly can't. And that's true no matter which USB port you are plugged into, and with or without the USB hub.

Given that I tried another hub I have. No dice. So I may actually have more than one problem since the symptoms are all over the map. I'm going to reach out to Ben to see if he has a recommendation on serial cables as the one I have, albeit new, is low-buck from Amazon.

And then I got an email from Champion. The 4-row radiator isn't in stock and they don't know when or if it will be. I'm done for the day.

Sounds like a no-steps forward kind of day. I agree with parking for the day and restarting fresh on another day. I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it, but things like this take time. You're in seldom charted territory, and it's not like there's 100 how-to articles on this subject.

[Gary Lewis]

Sounds like a no-steps forward kind of day. I agree with parking for the day and restarting fresh on another day. I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it, but things like this take time. You're in seldom charted territory, and it's not like there's 100 how-to articles on this subject.

Well, we may actually be taking a few steps forward. I got a note back from Champion that said they'd checked all of their distributors and found no 4-row distributors. But, they found an un-allocated one in the warehouse and it has my name on it.

And then I laid down to take a nap and couldn't as my mind was SPINNING. We plan to visit Owasso tomorrow to meet Janey's sister for lunch, and it dawned on me that Wholesale Computer Warehouse is there and they refurb computers. So I called and found that they have a refurb'd Dell Latitude 3450 which has three USB 2.0 ports, an i5 processor, and 8 gigs of memory. So I'm stopping in there tomorrow to see about buying that. And then I'll go to Best Buy and see what USB/serial cable they have since Wholesale has the same one I have and I want a different one. That will mean I have enough ports for everything and won't need a USB hub.

I've sent a note to Ben to see if he agrees with that approach.

[85lebaront2]

Well, we may actually be taking a few steps forward. I got a note back from Champion that said they'd checked all of their distributors and found no 4-row distributors. But, they found an un-allocated one in the warehouse and it has my name on it.

And then I laid down to take a nap and couldn't as my mind was SPINNING. We plan to visit Owasso tomorrow to meet Janey's sister for lunch, and it dawned on me that Wholesale Computer Warehouse is there and they refurb computers. So I called and found that they have a refurb'd Dell Latitude 3450 which has three USB 2.0 ports, an i5 processor, and 8 gigs of memory. So I'm stopping in there tomorrow to see about buying that. And then I'll go to Best Buy and see what USB/serial cable they have since Wholesale has the same one I have and I want a different one. That will mean I have enough ports for everything and won't need a USB hub.

I've sent a note to Ben to see if he agrees with that approach.

You made a decision while I was getting some information on what I use.

First, I have a MacBook Pro that I have set up as a dual boot, MAC OS and Windows 10. It has two USB 2.0 ports, so I have a Connectland USB 2.0 hub that has a switch for each of it's 4 ports.

Second, when flashing or datalogging I plug the Mongoose Pro into one of the computer's USB ports, and the Connectland hub into the other. I then connect my wideband, Dongle and Mouse receiver into 3 of it's ports and turn them on.

The wideband's serial output cable is connected to a Sabrent Serial to USB adapter cable.

[Gary Lewis]

You made a decision while I was getting some information on what I use.

First, I have a MacBook Pro that I have set up as a dual boot, MAC OS and Windows 10. It has two USB 2.0 ports, so I have a Connectland USB 2.0 hub that has a switch for each of it's 4 ports.

Second, when flashing or datalogging I plug the Mongoose Pro into one of the computer's USB ports, and the Connectland hub into the other. I then connect my wideband, Dongle and Mouse receiver into 3 of it's ports and turn them on.

The wideband's serial output cable is connected to a Sabrent Serial to USB adapter cable.

Bill - Thanks for all that work.

But I've not made a decision. I'm planning to go by and look at that Dell and "see about buying it." However, I'm also perusing what other options there are in order to get this done reliably.

Looks like we are both running similar cables from the wide band. Mine is a SABRENT USB 2.0 to Serial (9-Pin) DB-9 RS-232 Converter Cable, Prolific Chipset. And that thing has come and gone, frequently, on both of my computers - one more than the other. And that is whether it is plugged directly into the computer or plugged into a hub. But the thumb drive has also come and gone when I had everything plugged into the 4-port hub.

So I really do want three USB 2.0 ports. That would let me put the wide band, Mongoose, and BE dongle in their own port w/o using a hub, and I could do away with the thumb drive by using just one computer.

The problem I'm finding is that most new laptops don't have three 2.0 ports. Many of the new laptops have gone to USB C or 3.2 ports which will then have to be converted to USB 2.0, and I don't really want converters. So it looks like I have to go to older tech in order to get what I want.