Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yes, I'd come to the same conclusion - the ones I have are 2030 capacity. And Big Blue's springs are code 7, which are 2755's.

Here's the ATS table, and it gives the info on thickness. It looks like to get comparable springs I need either the 43-812HD's (2780#'s) or the Code X springs (2630#'s).

At least I have something to look for now. I'll get with Brent at the salvage and have him look for those springs. But, what are the thoughts about which ones to look for?

Comprable in what way???

I'd go V code on a stock truck

And maybe X code on BB with the added weight.

You're not looking to go back to the overly stiff 250 style spring, so forget what the door sticker says.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Comprable in what way???

I'd go V code on a stock truck

And maybe X code on BB with the added weight.

You're not looking to go back to the overly stiff 250 style spring, so forget what the door sticker says.

An added thought is to your reuse of U-bolts.

Is the 2 spring pack the same thickness as existing in the 350 clip?

Not that I'd let a set of U-bolts stop me from getting the ride I wanted.

[ArdWrknTrk]

All of the recommendations I've read about improving the ride of 4WD '80 - '97 F-250s and F-350s have said reverse shackle and U code SuperDuty springs.

Not to doubt, but are these people who want a plush ride on road?

Or, are these people who are going on serious overlanding adventure.

Because I don't think the two are the same.

[Gary Lewis]

An added thought is to your reuse of U-bolts.

Is the 2 spring pack the same thickness as existing in the 350 clip?

Not that I'd let a set of U-bolts stop me from getting the ride I wanted.

Bob - Do you know what accessories or engines those folks had? Or what they were going to do with the truck?

I ask because the 460, winch and bumper, and auxiliary battery really put a lot of extra weight on the front compared to what a stock truck with a 351W would have.

An issue I have is that by the time I get this thing together and test the springs I'd be surprised if Brent would want to trade. So I'm thinking that beefing up a little bit would be better. But, that assumes he can find the right springs.

Jim - I'll check the current spring pack on the D60 and see if the u-bolts would accommodate a thicker pack. And, for grins I'll check the u-bolts that are on Big Blue as they are much too long, so there's a remote chance they'd work.

[Gary Lewis]

An added thought is to your reuse of U-bolts.

Is the 2 spring pack the same thickness as existing in the 350 clip?

Not that I'd let a set of U-bolts stop me from getting the ride I wanted.

The spring pack on the front clip measures 1.255" thick. And that doesn't seem to correspond to anything I see in the MPC nor in the ATS listings. Anyway, there's 1/2" of threads sticking out, so it would probably be fine to go with a pack 1 1/2" thick with those u-bolts.

Having said that, the u-bolts on Big Blue are 10" long and have 4" of threads. But the ones on the '95 clip are only 8" long. Both appear to be the same diameter and spacing, so I should have whatever u-bolts I need.

[Nothing Special]

Not to doubt, but are these people who want a plush ride on road?

Or, are these people who are going on serious overlanding adventure.

Because I don't think the two are the same.

I can't say for sure, but one is "Diesel_Brad" from the FTE forum. While I don't think he does any "overlanding", he certainly uses his trucks like trucks.

And I'm not so sure that the two are that different anyway. While a lot of people use to go overlanding in buckboards, that doesn't mean that modern overlanders should aspire to have vehicles that ride like buckboards. Yes, the suspension needs to be capable of carrying the weight, but it really shouldn't have a huge safety margin on weight capacity because that leads to a harsh ride, which is hard on vehicle and passengers. And for front springs especially, the extra gear for long-term camping isn't really a factor since that's almost all on the rear axle anyway. So it's just a question of whether the front springs can handle the empty weight of the truck. Which in Big Blue's case isn't insignificant...

Bob - Do you know what accessories or engines those folks had? Or what they were going to do with the truck?

I ask because the 460, winch and bumper, and auxiliary battery really put a lot of extra weight on the front compared to what a stock truck with a 351W would have.

An issue I have is that by the time I get this thing together and test the springs I'd be surprised if Brent would want to trade. So I'm thinking that beefing up a little bit would be better. But, that assumes he can find the right springs....

See above, but no, I don't know specifically what everyone was running (although I'm sure Diesel_Brad had at least a 460 if not a 7.3L PowerStroke).

As far as whether it's better to err on the light or heavy side, that's up to you. I think I'd lean toward the light side for the (not overwhelming) reasons I've already given. But that doesn't mean that's the right choice for you.

But do keep in mind (as Jim already pointed out) that you DON'T want to match the TTB spring rate. As already discussed, the solid axle springs will seem much stiffer than the TTB springs due to suspension geometry. So compare to other solid axle vehicles.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Not to doubt, but are these people who want a plush ride on road?

Or, are these people who are going on serious overlanding adventure.

Because I don't think the two are the same.

I can't say for sure, but one is "Diesel_Brad" from the FTE forum. While I don't think he does any "overlanding", he certainly uses his trucks like trucks.

And I'm not so sure that the two are that different anyway. While a lot of people use to go overlanding in buckboards, that doesn't mean that modern overlanders should aspire to have vehicles that ride like buckboards. Yes, the suspension needs to be capable of carrying the weight, but it really shouldn't have a huge safety margin on weight capacity because that leads to a harsh ride, which is hard on vehicle and passengers. And for front springs especially, the extra gear for long-term camping isn't really a factor since that's almost all on the rear axle anyway. So it's just a question of whether the front springs can handle the empty weight of the truck. Which in Big Blue's case isn't insignificant...

Bob - Do you know what accessories or engines those folks had? Or what they were going to do with the truck?

I ask because the 460, winch and bumper, and auxiliary battery really put a lot of extra weight on the front compared to what a stock truck with a 351W would have.

An issue I have is that by the time I get this thing together and test the springs I'd be surprised if Brent would want to trade. So I'm thinking that beefing up a little bit would be better. But, that assumes he can find the right springs....

See above, but no, I don't know specifically what everyone was running (although I'm sure Diesel_Brad had at least a 460 if not a 7.3L PowerStroke).

As far as whether it's better to err on the light or heavy side, that's up to you. I think I'd lean toward the light side for the (not overwhelming) reasons I've already given. But that doesn't mean that's the right choice for you.

But do keep in mind (as Jim already pointed out) that you DON'T want to match the TTB spring rate. As already discussed, the solid axle springs will seem much stiffer than the TTB springs due to suspension geometry. So compare to other solid axle vehicles.

Ok, I have a LOT to learn on this. So, how 'bout this approach? I'll call Brent and see if I can get a rain check on the swap. I think he'll be fine with that since he knows my brother and both his boys. In fact, one lives less than a mile from the salvage and is there about every other weekend.

If he's cool with that, or even if he'l want a bit to trade, then I'll try these springs and swap if needed. Surely swapping springs isn't that hard once everything else is done. Put it on the lift, come down lightly on the safety stand under the axle, and remove the spring. Right?

[Nothing Special]

.... Surely swapping springs isn't that hard once everything else is done. Put it on the lift, come down lightly on the safety stand under the axle, and remove the spring. Right?

That should pretty much be it. Of course "remove the spring" can be a nightmare with rusted bolts, but that won't be an issue with springs that were just installed. And I'd recommend replacing one spring at a time so everything pretty well stays in place through the process.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Ok, I have a LOT to learn on this. So, how 'bout this approach? I'll call Brent and see if I can get a rain check on the swap. I think he'll be fine with that since he knows my brother and both his boys. In fact, one lives less than a mile from the salvage and is there about every other weekend.

If he's cool with that, or even if he'l want a bit to trade, then I'll try these springs and swap if needed. Surely swapping springs isn't that hard once everything else is done. Put it on the lift, come down lightly on the safety stand under the axle, and remove the spring. Right?

Keep in mind that spring rate and spring capacity are two entirely different things.

One is how much it takes to deflect the spring X distance, and that can be progressive as well.

The other is how much the spring will be carrying at its design deflection.

[Gary Lewis]

.... Surely swapping springs isn't that hard once everything else is done. Put it on the lift, come down lightly on the safety stand under the axle, and remove the spring. Right?

That should pretty much be it. Of course "remove the spring" can be a nightmare with rusted bolts, but that won't be an issue with springs that were just installed. And I'd recommend replacing one spring at a time so everything pretty well stays in place through the process.

Yes, one spring at a time is the way to do it. And on the driver's side it isn't going anywhere since the panhard rod will still be on, although since it connects to the passenger's side bracket it will have to come off when that spring comes off.

And, the plan is coming together. I talked with Brent Lumbert, who runs the salvage, and he said he will remember me, so go ahead and try those springs and then come back if they don't work, even many months down the road.

Plus I heard back from Erik at Sky, who said:

Yes it comes with the correct lo-pro shackle hangers. It will have everything to hang the springs (minus the springs)

Adjustable panhard bar is recommended with that setup, you will most likely need longer shocks as well

Looks like we have a plan!